Episode 115 - America’s Secret Caste System

[JulyDiaz 2797]

We tend to think of the class system as money thing. Rich people are high-class, poor people are of a lower class, and those things can change with the purchase of a lottery ticket or one bad financial investment. But that common understanding of class in America is not really how things work.

 

Think of how many lottery winners are bankrupt within years because they overspend on frivolous things that would seem impressive to their own class. That explains Donald Trump's rise to political power. He's basically the lower class idea of wealth: he owns golf courses and casinos, has his name on everything, and is obsessed with gold. To your Vanderbilts or Rockefellers, he's a clown, but to lower class people, his lifestyle is something to strive for.

 

On this week's episode Jack O'Brien and Jason Pargin (aka David Wong) take a deep dive into how we perceive class in America, what most people get wrong about it, and the surprising ways class is confused with race.

 

Footnotes:

 

Siderea on Economic and Social Class in America: http://goo.gl/tlmX4S

 

Slate Star Codex's Entry Summarizing Siderea's Piece: http://goo.gl/2eYdF6

 

Slate Star Codex: I Can Tolerate Anything Except the Outgroup: http://goo.gl/ZrwgcS

 

The Atlantic's Review of 'Class: A Guide Through The American Status System': http://goo.gl/G04Jzg

 

Buy tickets to our next live episode taping on April 9th at 7pm at the UCB Sunset Theatre in Los Angeles: https://goo.gl/VeEDmF

[wakefresh 689]

The type of people who use the term SJW are right wing reactionaries. They are the new vanguard of the same old school prejudiced beliefs that were in the 1950s, and the 1920, and the 1840s. These are people who say that other races and women "whine" about being denied opportunities but won't shut the hell up when a white guy doesn't get a position anywhere because obviously the white guy is the most qualified in any and all circumstances. It is wrong categorizing this as a "class" issue because the common denomination is not socioeconomic class, it is race.

 

Also, race and class are very entwined in America. Any and all Africans in the country were of the lowest class -- slaves. After getting freed, Africans were still in danger of being kidnapped and taken back into slavery. You know the story of Solomon Northup because he was born free and learned to read and write. There were 100,000s of Solomon Northups that happened. Because slavery was a race-based system, the class system is also race-based. The socialist New Deal was passed in this country specifically because it excluded black people. Drug laws were made because the political machine wanted to punish black people for the Civil Right Movement. Alot of this country's laws were made by excluding black folks and putting up barriers so that black people were by and large kept lower class.

 

Even if you are one of the black folks that do make it, you still will be considered lower class. Chris Rock still gets hassled by the police. He did a video with Jerry Seinfeld -- the "Comedians in Cars" series -- and Seinfeld was speeding in a car. They got pulled over, and the officer made a beeline to Chris Rock sitting in the passenger seat. He is a multi-millionaire and still gets as much deference from the government as a unemployed brother on the corner. Dave Chappelle has a excellent story when he goes into agent's offices and they expect them to speak a certain way and he blows their mind. His parents are college professors but that doesn't matter because he doesn't have even though they are black and therefore don't have the same access as their white counterparts.

[VictoriaOosterhout 2]

Hey Jason, Ivy-league alumna here, I eat pizza with a fork and a knife, but I'm also the only person I know who does that. My parents don't, my friends don't, it's just me. It's a habit I picked up back when I had braces.

 

Also, I love and support the previous comment.

 

To add my own anecdote: I am a half-black, half-white person who can pass for just about any race (except white, unfortunately). I remember going into my very first job interview in high school. I had spoken to the interviewer on the phone, and then when I showed up, the interviewer didn't recognize me. "You're [incredibly European name here]?" he asked, incredulously. I assured him I was she, and he then said "You have very good English." All I could say was, "I should hope so, I grew up in America"

 

I've had that conversation several times since, sadly.

[RTLemur 0]

This may seem strange but the first thing I thought of when you mentioned Michael Brown's apparel at the store he was spotted at, was how Woody Harrelson was dressed when he was spotted at a music festival last year in Minnesota... Oh yeah, and he's talking to 3 police officers.

 

http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/tillokm_1435176857_Woody%202.JPG

 

http://www.startribune.com/more-woody-sightings-ahead-harrelson-s-here-through-july-for-film/309616071/

[KevinCarroll 0]

Hearing this conversation is very refreshing, and explains these ideas way better than I ever could. I grew up on a small farm in rural Illinois. We never had money, and had less by the time I was moving out of the house. Until my late 20's I could not escape the no to blue collar culture, no matter how low the pay or how entry level the position I could not get hired at an office, and I lost track of the times where I had to fill in for a manager position just to train an external hire for the position later leaving me as a grunt at the factory or restaurant I was working at. Eventually, I saved enough to go back to school, and now several years as a software engineer, I am both economically and culturally, pretty 'middle class' and having first hand experienced both cultures really opened my eyes to the class structure in the US. But even after living in both, my past attempts to explain this have fallen short, now I have a great discussion to refer people to when it comes up.

 

As far as prejudice being a function of class difference goes, there is a huge connection there, but I think it has less to do with the source of it and more related to its continuation. Being a member of the lower rung of society it is hard to not feel forgotten if not oppressed, this provides a lot of angst, and when you are being told that you hold a position of privilege because of your race or gender it sounds ridiculous, and how dare one of these rich, fresh-fruit/veggie-eating a-holes tell me what words to say or thoughts to think! At least for myself and people I know, it was less about how convinced I was of my own position and more that I knew this 'SJW' had never even seen the fighting in the trenches let alone lived there. These PC rules are just another way for the elite to make you jump through more hoops for their amusement. This is especially heightened by the fact that if you came from the lower class, especially in a rural area, you've known true blue white supremecists, you know you aren't acting like them so no way you are being racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. Learning to explain things in non-antagonistic (but also not patronizing) terms goes a HUGE distance here.

[deadlyfox 1]

The type of people who use the term SJW are right wing reactionaries. They are the new vanguard of the same old school prejudiced beliefs that were in the 1950s, and the 1920, and the 1840s. These are people who say that other races and women "whine" about being denied opportunities but won't shut the hell up when a white guy doesn't get a position anywhere because obviously the white guy is the most qualified in any and all circumstances.

 

Way to strawman. Yes because women have it so bad. You people "whine" about the wage gap but nobody bothers to talk about the fact that men are way more likely to die on the job. The lesson? A woman's paycheck is more important than a man's life.

 

I'm not asking for special privileges or even equallity. I'm just telling you that you have made it clear that our lives have no value so why should we act like anyone else's life has value?

 

You want to make it a struggle? Ok, let's see who wins, again.