Episode 78: BOYZ N THE HOOD

[devincf 102]

John Singleton's seminal South Central movie - is it seminal enough? It's up to you to decide if Doughboy and Furious Styles make it into The Canon.

[Llewellyn_Wells 47]

This was my first time watching the film. I knew of it, but didn't know much about it. I honestly thought the whole movie was going to be focused on those kids and that Ice Cube (he was the only one I knew was in it going in) was going to show up as Fishburne's brother or friend. That's all to say that I agree with Devin regarding the prologue.

 

I admire how passionately Amy defended the film, but it is a no for me.

[Cronopio 127]

I saw the film twice when it came out in 1991, because I went back to see what it was that I was missing – I had found it to be didactic, manipulative, and poorly made. My opinion didn't change on that second viewing, or when I saw it again this weekend. The directing felt uninspired and the camera-work was downright shoddy. For every good moment in the script, there was another one of such heavy-handed didacticism that the film seemed to collapse under its good intentions.

 

The film I wished I was watching was a film about the young Furious Styles, fathering a child at 17, going to Vietnam, coming home and fighting to find his way in a society that is rigged against him – I want to see how that kid became that man. I would watch that film. It would be magnificent.

 

Though the specific setting was something not seen much in films at that point, even back then you could compare it to films about impoverished youths living in risky neighborhoods, like Los Olvidados, Pixote, and Mamma Roma, and Boyz N The Hood just came up short both by comparison and on its own merits.

 

This episode was a tough listen for me. Even though I agreed with Devin, I think he overplayed his hand. And I understand what Amy is saying, about the virtues of a young filmmaker who has something to say and goes out and makes a film, even if his technique isn't developed. The thing is, there is a film made by a young African American director who was still in film school and had a burning desire to tell a story and portray a marginalized group of people, a film set in south central and made on a budget, a film that is heartbreaking and poetic despite its shortcomings. But that film isn't "Boyz N The Hood", it's Charles Burnett's "Killer of Sheep".

[TwistedChrome 0]

Amy

[beezyharps 125]

Yes for me. Is it a perfect movie? Certainly not. It can be cheesy and predictable at times, and the editing and sound certainly are unimpressive overall. That being said, the film features some great performances (Fishburne and Ice Cube especially) and it is a story that genuinely moves me. Not a slam dunk, but I think it does enough and I do think it is an important movie in terms of impact and that it is one of the best coming of age films not to solely feature white, suburban males.

[Kreiter 15]

Oh cool, another week where one of the hosts refuses to engage with the movie.

 

Devin and Amy should just take turns talking to a wall and recording it.

[GoldandBlue 9]

Oh cool, another week where one of the hosts refuses to engage with the movie.

 

Devin and Amy should just take turns talking to a wall and recording it.

 

Agree. I love the show but the last two weeks have been brutal.

 

As for the movie it is a definite yes for me. I know it isn't perfect and it has an amateurish feel but it was made by kids. Even though it was financed by Universal, everyone behind it were completely outside the system and its importance can not be overstated. Not only did it spark a national conversation but it made it possible for films like Menace II Society, Friday, and even Straight Outta Compton to be made. It gave us Laurence Fishburne and Ice Cube as a movie star. Its "melodrama" also works. Devin admitted to crying when Ricky died. It is far from a perfect movie but 25 years later we are still talking about it. Its cultural impact is tremendous. And it is a must see in many circles, especially in the inner city.

 

 

As for Eazy E talking shit, he was beefing with Ice Cube at the time so he was hardly unbiased. Boyz N The Hood belongs in the canon

[gene_shallot 79]

Only partway through the podcast, but Devin - "The Race Card" from The People vs OJ Simpson was the worst episode??! <insert shade-filled Johnny Cochran retort>!

 

Not even close. "A Jury in Jail" was the worst. In fact, there's even scenes in one of the best episodes ("Marcia, Marcia, Marcia") with way worse directing than anything in Singleton's episode. Ridiculous, sir.

[JosephGreen 6]

I feel very, extremely passionate about this movie. It's really the one that got me interested more in film in general, and I have a very emotional connection with it. I can also see where Devin is coming from, but I really gotta side with Amy on this one. I just think that Devin was too detached, whereas Amy took the time to and effort to listen and feel what the movie was saying.

[gene_shallot 79]

So yeah what's with the weird John Singleton hate from Devin in this episode? We've got crap like Clerks and Cannibal Holocaust in the Canon, and now you bust out the extra strict yard stick on this one? The movie's craftsmanship is fine for what it's trying to do. I don't think it's any more flatly shot than, say, Broadcast News.

 

Baby Boy was fine.

Shaft was fine.

Four Brothers was fine.

2 Fast 2 Furious had a lot of problems, but I don't think John Singleton was one.

 

I agree they're not Canon-worthy (not even close) but Boyz-in-the-Hood is. The performances sell it for me, and damn was it ground-breaking at the time. A yes for me.

[AndyFritz 12]

I vote no.

It took forever for the plot to get started.

[Dylan! 6]

"2 Fast, 2 Furious is Singleton's best film" had me chortling all afternoon!

 

Boyz N the Hood is a yes, simply due to the time in which it was released and what impact it had on the culture at the time. It is not great, for sure. But fuck it, you say the name and EVERYONE knows what you're talking about. That alone is enough to have it canonized.

[bri-witched 60]

I'm torn over this. I do think there's a lot of sloppy camerawork and really broad moments in the film, but I also don't have an as harsh view as Devin. There are better movies about similar subjects (I definitely agree with a user above about Killer of Sheep), but this is the one with the cultural impact. It's the one that's survived all these years and is still talked about, even by people my age, who were either not alive or too young to have seen it in theaters. If we put something as bad as Forrest Gump in because of its cultural impact, then this deserves a place too. I'm pretty sure Singleton was also the first black director to ever be nominated for the Best Director at the Academy Awards. I need the rest the day to think it over, but I'm leaning toward yes.

[Dylan! 6]

Also - Devin is simply wrong about Dope.

[riddler645 4]

Not even close. "A Jury in Jail" was the worst. In fact, there's even scenes in one of the best episodes ("Marcia, Marcia, Marcia") with way worse directing than anything in Singleton's episode. Ridiculous, sir.

 

Disagree. That episode was fantastic IMO. But yeah anything directed by Ryan Murphy is the worst of that show even if the episode are good.

 

And boy I just don't see what Devin is talking about Singleton is no Spike Lee but he really knows how to tell a story (even if weirdly he rips off Stand By Me twice) and construct a scene and is very good with actors. I saw this film for the first time this week and found it to be really well made. The acting in particular is very well layered even with the soap opera style storyline.

[groovy-guy 24]

edit: soft no

[riddler645 4]

And also this might be the worst Devin has ever argued. If I drank every time he sad the word "bad" or "badly" I'd be dead 10 minutes in.

[EvanDickson 30]

Don't love the movie and initially voted "no." But then switched my vote to "yes"... falling on the side of the argument that it paved the way for other, better films to address these themes. Even if I never want to see it again, the movie made a noteworthy impact.

[Stickman Cinema 28]

I saw this movie A LOT as a kid (It was on HBO all the time) and it had a profound effect on me. Revisiting it as an adult, I'll admit its flaws are a bit more glaring and agree with Devin that there are movies which have done this theme better (Menace II Society is chief among them). But it's still a definite yes for me. Its influence is undeniable, the themes are still relevant and there are some really, really strong performances here (Fishburne and Cube are crazy good). I jumped (screaming) off the Amy boat after that insufferable Se7en episode, but I'm back on board after this one.

[gene_shallot 79]

And also this might be the worst Devin has ever argued. If I drank every time he sad the word "bad" or "badly" I'd be dead 10 minutes in.

Also, take a shot every time Devin says "profound" or "profoundly".

[gene_shallot 79]

Disagree. That episode was fantastic IMO.

Really? None of the episodes were clunkers, but to me that one stood out as the least interesting (though 100% necessary) and most ham-fisted. And we're talking about a show hammier than Easter brunch. That's cool though, different strokes & all that.

[KevinGrella 3]

Before watching the movie again over the weekend I would have voted yes.

I saw the movie 2 or 3 times already but it was probably at least 15yrs since the last time and my memory was that it was pretty fantastic.

Maybe not an absolute must in terms of being Canon worthy but definitely worth considering.

 

I barely made it through this time.

 

Of course times have changed, my tastes have changed and there have been many times before when my opinion has changed on something I once liked but this was pretty drastic.

I used to think at least Singleton had one good movie on his résumé but now not so much.

 

[mrm1138 32]

Also - Devin is simply wrong about Dope.

 

Yep, I absolutely agree about this. Admittedly, I'm a white dude who was raised in the suburbs, so I guess my opinion doesn't count for as much as Devin's.

 

Also, I'm abstaining from voting this week because I haven't seen Boyz N the Hood in over a decade. I do remember thinking it was quite good when I saw it.

[WilliamMontero 1]

I watched this film for the first time this morning and did notice many of the flaws pointed out by Devin. But the message and intent of the story is enough to outweigh the heavy handedness. I take Umbridge with categorizing the scenes with a young Tre, a mere prologue, the running themes in both what we are shown and what we hear are form the reality of the film. This film has both filled me with the joy of seeing a younger "Larry" Fishburne, and paved the way for better, films with similar agendas. This is a definite yes for me.

[DaveCarey 0]

Big fat no! Great ideas, but ultimately fails due to poor film making, storytelling and performances. I can't even get on board with Fishburne's performance. I'd like to see LB in a movie where he's not preachy and condescending. His unrealistic monologues are a bore.

 

Amy's way off on this one. She's measuring movies by very inconsistent standards and is really contradicting herself here.