John Carter (2012)

[Dbantock6 0]

You guys have to do John Carter, that movie was horrible and an instant candidate for HDTGM

[The Abbottar 9]

I actually kind of liked John Carter. It wasn't the best, but that movie's failure was a result of marketing not quality.

[Lando 2019]

Not gonna lie, I enjoyed it a lot more than Avatar.

[seanotron 2307]

I loved this movie. It was unfairly maligned. And badly marketed.

[therealjayknox 26]

It might have been on one of the podcasts but the baffling title choice seemed the biggest problem. John Carter: Warrior of Mars.

Call it 'John Carter'?

Or what if we called it 'Warrior of Mars!'.

Nope.. just call it 'John Carter'.

 

I gotta say it - I thought the movie as pretty good overall and I'm with Lando - I enjoyed it more than Avatar.

yes.. some dumb stuff, lame parts but not bad for a goofy Sci-Fi!

[Lando 2019]

I read that this movie was originally called "John Carter of Mars" but a Disney executive was concerned that movies with "Mars" in the title typically haven't done well at the box office. At the last minute they nixed the "of Mars" and opted for "John Carter." Ironically this movie ended up being Disney's biggest flop since Mars Needs Moms.

[RyanSz 3140]

Ironically this movie ended up being Disney's biggest flop since Mars Needs Moms.

 

It's the biggest flop of all time. Analysts had said that for it to make a profit it needed to make over $600 million with its $250 million budget and $100 million marketing budget and only made $282 million. Disney was thankful for the success of the Avengers as it allowed them to cover the losses from this movie.

[Lando 2019]

Good thing they dropped the "of Mars"

[sillstaw 414]

Personally, my big problem with this movie was how the alien races looked. One is made up of a couple guys in white robes and pale makeup; they're distinctive, and small enough in number that it's not confusing. Another is made up of completely identical green giants with horns; looking at them, I had no idea who was who. The other two are identically humanoid; both are made up of tanned brunettes, in practically identical clothing. There was one scene where I thought for a minute that the villain of the movie was rescuing John Carter.

 

(And yes, "John Carter" is a lame title, but calling it "John Carter of Mars" wouldn't have made people want to see it all that much more.)

[seanotron 2307]

 

(And yes, "John Carter" is a lame title, but calling it "John Carter of Mars" wouldn't have made people want to see it all that much more.)

 

No, but I imagine it might have made it somewhat clearer what the movie was about. The marketing for this movie was completely incomprehensible.

[NeilMiddleton 13]

I thought this movie was a lot of fun and severely underrated. The should do the Sci-Fi Channel's (no, I will not use the lame new spelling) Princess of Mars starring Traci Lords. Now that was atrocious...

[Skeevins 322]

John Carter was fine. Well, except for the unnecessary framing mechanism.

[wakefresh 689]

I vote for this movie to get a send up. The battle scenes are boring as all hell and so are the characters. Everyone's performance in this akin to peeling paint. Also, I think old sci-fi tales are the last thing that needs to be made into movies. When Howard Carter wrote those books, people didn't know anything about Mars or space exploration. We know about those things now, which makes the very premise of this movie pretty stupid to begin with.

[seanotron 2307]

I vote for this movie to get a send up. The battle scenes are boring as all hell and so are the characters. Everyone's performance in this akin to peeling paint. Also, I think old sci-fi tales are the last thing that needs to be made into movies. When Howard Carter wrote those books, people didn't know anything about Mars or space exploration. We know about those things now, which makes the very premise of this movie pretty stupid to begin with.

 

These were written by Edgar Rice Burroughs. I actually enjoy the fact that they were written before we understood more about the universe. Sure, there's going to be a camp factor because they aren't hard sci-fi, but I think that's what makes them fun.

 

I think part of the problem John Carter faced was that it was the grandaddy of sci-fi, and so many subsequent writers borrowed from it. So much of Star Wars is lifted wholesale from the Barsoom books. People felt like they were seeing a retread when in reality these stories were the basis for so many others.

[Lando 2019]

I do agree that most of the problems with John Carter stemmed from the fact that it was written a long time ago, although it seems like they did update it some. I think it's similar to when The Watchmen was a huge flop.

[wakefresh 689]

 

These were written by Edgar Rice Burroughs. I actually enjoy the fact that they were written before we understood more about the universe. Sure, there's going to be a camp factor because they aren't hard sci-fi, but I think that's what makes them fun.

 

I think part of the problem John Carter faced was that it was the grandaddy of sci-fi, and so many subsequent writers borrowed from it. So much of Star Wars is lifted wholesale from the Barsoom books. People felt like they were seeing a retread when in reality these stories were the basis for so many others.

 

I was thinking of Robert Howard, the guy that wrote the Conan books, when I typed Howard Carter. I just googled his name and apparently that's the guy that found King Tut's tomb.

 

And while those other works lifted parts from John Carter, they also updated it to fit the time they were made. Disney didn't do this. They went straight to the source material and stuck with it, which is why the movie is so old timey. It's not hard sci-fi, but you do have to create a suspension of belief to make the story work, and telling me that there are aliens on Mars is not the way to do it. That's shit's old. It hearkens back to those cheesy 1950s alien invader movies that EVERYONE rips on today. Tell me that he's going to a planet in Alpha Centarui, or the Crab Nebula. Somewhere science hasn't already told me with 100% certainty that there wasn't a civilization thriving at some point in the past.

 

Also, for most of the movie, the main character's dilemma is choosing sides in a fight. He doesn't want to do it, blah, blah, blah. Well, I don't feel sorry for this character because when the choice came to fight for freedom or slavery, he choose slavery. He has a horrible track record of choosing the correct side. It would be like them making a German version of this, and John Carter as a former Nazi, is waffling over choosing a side. I remember when I saw this, the love interest says something about freeing the people of Mars, and I joked to my friend that John Carter would be like, "Well, freedom for some...I do like slavery and if you want me to fight for me, you'll have to fuck me, and help me to enslave those giant green men who first found me."

 

Not everything is timeless. Some things are just made for their time, and that's it. You can't take it out of that time period and enjoy it because the social factors that made it popular back then aren't present anymore. But you can always lift themes and character archetypes from stories, refactor them to your own time period, and make something good.

[seanotron 2307]

I'd argue Star Wars didn't change it much at all, other than names. That arena scene is almost exactly the same, the only difference is you have a human who can jump high because of Martian gravity and a Jedi that can jump high because magic.

 

I just don't have the same issue with a suspension of disbelief. I just take into account the time period it's from. It'd be like updating the Illiad because no one speaks Homeric Greek anymore and we know the Greek Gods weren't actually involved in the Trojan War. It just gives you insight into how people thought at the time. Back when Burroughs wrote the Barsoom books there were all kinds of crazy theories about Mars, so he just put some of them to paper. I enjoy it for what it is.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about Carter choosing slavery. You've lost me there.

[wakefresh 689]

I'd argue Star Wars didn't change it much at all, other than names. That arena scene is almost exactly the same, the only difference is you have a human who can jump high because of Martian gravity and a Jedi that can jump high because magic.

 

I just don't have the same issue with a suspension of disbelief. I just take into account the time period it's from. It'd be like updating the Illiad because no one speaks Homeric Greek anymore and we know the Greek Gods weren't actually involved in the Trojan War. It just gives you insight into how people thought at the time. Back when Burroughs wrote the Barsoom books there were all kinds of crazy theories about Mars, so he just put some of them to paper. I enjoy it for what it is.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about Carter choosing slavery. You've lost me there.

 

My counterpoint would be that Star Wars didn't lift as much from John Carter as it did from the writing of Joseph Campbell, who Lucas was really into when he started writing the script. Star Wars is more of a classic epic myth -- think Gilgamesh or Beowulf. The stuff about the Force was way more mystical and religious, than scientific, in the original movies. Plus, they didn't specify an exact place or time for the setting of the story, only that it was a long time ago and far, far away galaxy. That's perfect. Don't tell me that this took place in Jupiter around 1531, because I KNOW in 1531 that were no Death Stars roaming the solar system. If there were we would have found debris from that explosion an long time ago.

 

I get what you're saying about the Illiad but they do refactor the story to bring it up to date. When you stick to the original source material, you have to do a lot of explaining about cultural practices, social mores, etc. That's why the Shakespearian comedies are not all that funny. I'm sure in the original setting -- Elizabethian England and in the Globe theatre -- that it was very bawdy and great fun. Now, many centuries later, I need a bunch of footnotes to understand where the jokes are and what makes them funny.

 

About the slavery thing, that was a joke I made about the history of poor choices John Carter made to lead him to fight along side of the Confederacy. There is a point in the movie where the love interest finally asks him to join her side to fight for freedom and good. My joke basically centered on the fact that he, an ex-Confederate, would have problems with unlimited freedom for everyone; he would have to have some slavery to make him feel at him and put him at ease.

[sillstaw 414]

About the slavery thing, that was a joke I made about the history of poor choices John Carter made to lead him to fight along side of the Confederacy. There is a point in the movie where the love interest finally asks him to join her side to fight for freedom and good. My joke basically centered on the fact that he, an ex-Confederate, would have problems with unlimited freedom for everyone; he would have to have some slavery to make him feel at him and put him at ease.

 

Some critics defend this as being the reason why he takes so long to decide who to fight for; he doesn't want to end up on the wrong side of history again. I don't know if I agree with it, but it's worth considering.

[wakefresh 689]

 

Some critics defend this as being the reason why he takes so long to decide who to fight for; he doesn't want to end up on the wrong side of history again. I don't know if I agree with it, but it's worth considering.

 

Those critics are reading something that wasn't portrayed on the screen. We seem him time after time say that ALL fighting is worthless and he doesn't care one way or the other. He's battle fatigued. He takes so long to decide who to fight for is because most of that time he's trying to get back home.He has no dog in their fight, that is until the princess gives up that Martian goodness. Then he's all "For the future of Barsoom!"

[Lando 2019]

Except that there isn't a shadow of a doubt that he's going to fight for the side that will allow him to tap that ass.

[wakefresh 689]

Except that there isn't a shadow of a doubt that he's going to fight for the side that will allow him to tap that ass.

 

Which makes you think that if McNulty had given up that booty, he'd be the King of Barsoom right now. Lesson to everyone: just put out.

[seanotron 2307]

He clearly didn't want to get involved and had seen his fill of war, but I think it's just that very human thing of having a harder time turning your back when you know the people involved.

[Kothel 42]

On 10/14/2012 at 1:53 PM, The Abbottar said:

I actually kind of liked John Carter. It wasn't the best, but that movie's failure was a result of marketing not quality.

Totally agree. A solid movie that most people never saw. It isn't The Godfather, but it isn't terrible either.