Musical Mondays Week 15 The Fantasticks (1995)

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

 

That was crazy to read and it turned me off the musical a little, tbh.

 

Wow, really? I read it again and don't see it. I can picture the tone and the atmosphere, and love that it's so airy and fantastical. The whole show is a giant parable, where nothing is real. There's some lovely imagery throughout and it's much more consistent than the movie.

 

I played the soundtrack from t to b today on a car trip - my kids listened carefully and enjoyed it. It also reminded me the film cut 'Plant a Radish', the dads' other song (about not knowing what your kid will turn out like when they're born) which is a crying shame.

 

Another major omission is the wall: the beginning of the play sees the wall erected, and they tear it down at the end of act 1. Then, when they piss each other off, they build it again. At the end when Matt and Luisa return, El Gallo cautions the fathers not to tear the wall down again because it's needed for good neighbours. The wall work in the movie is pretty cursory.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Plant a Radish:

 

[tomspanks 9039]

Wow, really? I read it again and don't see it. I can picture the tone and the atmosphere, and love that it's so airy and fantastical. The whole show is a giant parable, where nothing is real. There's some lovely imagery throughout and it's much more consistent than the movie.

 

It's hard for me to picture the tone and the atmosphere, having never seen the stage version, but I'll take your word for it. What I thought was crazy was that Luisa is described as being "incurably insane," when the description of her behavior reads like a typical teenage girl. Wow, what a loon, she daydreams about being a princess at age 15.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

 

It's hard for me to picture the tone and the atmosphere, having never seen the stage version, but I'll take your word for it. What I thought was crazy was that Luisa is described as being "incurably insane," when the description of her behavior reads like a typical teenage girl. Wow, what a loon, she daydreams about being a princess at age 15.

 

But that's the point! The romanticism is allied with insanity but not in a negative sense. That was a lovely, sweet laugh moment each time I've seen it. She's so dreamy and out of her mind with romance that the thing with El Gallo becomes possible. It's absolutely spoken with a knowing smile.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I really need to see a stage production of this because I feel like there's a really good version somewhere in there...but it's not this movie. I agree that Joel Grey and Brad Sullivan had much better chemistry than Jean Louisa Kelly and "Joe" McIntyre.

 

And speaking of McIntyre, I don't think he closes his mouth for, like, 90% of the movie. He just stands there slackjawed the whole time, and I just kept thinking, "Close your fucking mouth, dude."

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

It's hard for me to picture the tone and the atmosphere, having never seen the stage version, but I'll take your word for it. What I thought was crazy was that Luisa is described as being "incurably insane," when the description of her behavior reads like a typical teenage girl. Wow, what a loon, she daydreams about being a princess at age 15.

 

I didn't have a problem with that so much as I think it's suggesting that just being a teenager is a form of insanity.

 

Also, the more I hear about the things that were left out of the movie I'm not totally sure that they were actually needed. I feel like I got it, you know? I'm sure it's wonderful onstage, but I'm not sure that I need an elaborate wall metaphor to hammer a point home.

 

However, I will say (and may have already done so) that I feel like the story gets lost in the scenery. Knowing very little about it going in, I felt like it would work better in a minimalist production. It was like watching a movie adaptation of Our Town filmed in an actual town.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

There was a Hallmark TV movie of The Fantasticks in the 60's. I'm sure that's better but really this is a story that needs to be done simply and live.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I really need to see a stage production of this because I feel like there's a really good version somewhere in there...but it's not this movie. I agree that Joel Grey and Brad Sullivan had much better chemistry than Jean Louisa Kelly and "Joe" McIntyre.

 

And speaking of McIntyre, I don't think he closes his mouth for, like, 90% of the movie. He just stands there slackjawed the whole time, and I just kept thinking, "Close your fucking mouth, dude."

 

My Letterboxd review was originally going to call out his mouth breathing. Great minds...

[tomspanks 9039]

And speaking of McIntyre, I don't think he closes his mouth for, like, 90% of the movie. He just stands there slackjawed the whole time, and I just kept thinking, "Close your fucking mouth, dude."

 

Not only that, I hated his dumb haircut. Nobody really had good hair in this. Maybe except Joel Grey.

[EvRobert 1684]

The Hallmark version is slightly better but they cut a lot more to fit it into an hour

[Cam Bert 8145]

I really need to see a stage production of this because I feel like there's a really good version somewhere in there...but it's not this movie. I agree that Joel Grey and Brad Sullivan had much better chemistry than Jean Louisa Kelly and "Joe" McIntyre.

 

And speaking of McIntyre, I don't think he closes his mouth for, like, 90% of the movie. He just stands there slackjawed the whole time, and I just kept thinking, "Close your fucking mouth, dude."

We've talked a lot about the story but the majority of the problems I had with this movie were technical things and Joey McIntyre. I guess he has that "aw shucks mister" innocence they were looking for. Not really but why else would they cast him? This was filmed in the mid 90s. New Kids heyday was over by then. Did they think casting him would draw in girls that use to be fans?

[Cameron H. 23786]

We've talked a lot about the story but the majority of the problems I had with this movie were technical things and Joey McIntyre. I guess he has that "aw shucks mister" innocence they were looking for. Not really but why else would they cast him? This was filmed in the mid 90s. New Kids heyday was over by then. Did they think casting him would draw in girls that use to be fans?

 

Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. I think he was trying to break into acting (because, as you said, NKOTB was more or less kaput at that point) and he could sing and dance. You've got to get your break somewhere and maybe he was the best they could get.

[tomspanks 9039]

Cameron h's signature reminds me. Is there such a thing as a too ripe plum? I mean, I like under ripe nectarines and peaches (so that they crunch like apples), but I would think you'd want plums and related varieties like pluots and apriums to be as ripe as possible.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Cameron h's signature reminds me. Is there such a thing as a too ripe plum? I mean, I like under ripe nectarines and peaches (so that they crunch like apples), but I would think you'd want plums and related varieties like pluots and apriums to be as ripe as possible.

 

I would view more as a metaphor for getting old. Luisa first says that once their courting period is over and she is complaining about being like everyone else and just wasting away on a porch swing. Basically she's saying, "We're acting like old people!"

[tomspanks 9039]

^ interesting. I took that to mean that everything was too fine - even the plum.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

Cameron h's signature reminds me. Is there such a thing as a too ripe plum?

 

This Is Just to Say

 

I have eaten

the plums

that were in

the icebox

 

and which

you were probably

saving

for breakfast

 

Forgive me

they were delicious

so sweet

and so cold

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

^ interesting. I took that to mean that everything was too fine - even the plum.

I always took it to be that a plum looks delicious in the hand, but the real test comes from biting into it - just as Matt and Luisa are starting to do with their relationship. Or, that they waited too long to make the most of it when it was perfect, and now it's over-ripe. Horticulture is a big theme in the play (see: "Plant a Radish")

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Compare and contrast time!

 

(Trigger warning for the use of the word rape)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The movie has the meh new song 'Abductions' that was written after the show had run for 30 years and the over-use of the word rape, which has taken on a far more serious societal meaning since 1960. But the original song, 'It Depends on What You Pay', is a really great number. Here's the original:

 

 

Obviously the multiple uses of the word is a problem. 'Abductions' was never really popular, so here's how they solved it - the latest off-Broadway production goes back to 'What You Pay' but replaces most of the sensitive words, TBS-style. Here it is.

 

 

What do you think?

[Cameron H. 23786]

I always took it to be that a plum looks delicious in the hand, but the real test comes from biting into it - just as Matt and Luisa are starting to do with their relationship. Or, that they waited too long to make the most of it when it was perfect, and now it's over-ripe. Horticulture is a big theme in the play (see: "Plant a Radish")

 

I think your second point is more along the line I was trying to get at. You're hungry and you finally get to eat some fruit, but it's already gone bad.

 

From a story perspective, it's just a petty and dumb thing to fight about and highlights just how shallow their "love" actually is.

[tomspanks 9039]

I always took it to be that a plum looks delicious in the hand, but the real test comes from biting into it - just as Matt and Luisa are starting to do with their relationship. Or, that they waited too long to make the most of it when it was perfect, and now it's over-ripe. Horticulture is a big theme in the play (see: "Plant a Radish")

 

Plant a Radish is one of the songs that was cut from the film, right? I played the Youtube clip you posted earlier and I had no memory of that song from the movie.

 

 

This Is Just to Say

 

I have eaten

the plums

that were in

the icebox

 

and which

you were probably

saving

for breakfast

 

Forgive me

they were delicious

so sweet

and so cold

 

Seriously, if M took the perfect plums I was saving for my breakfast, no note would be enough.

[Cam Bert 8145]

Man I really want a plum now....

[Cameron H. 23786]

Man I really want a plum now....

 

Well good luck getting one around William Carlos Williams. Homeboy's got a problem...

[Cam Bert 8145]

Well good luck getting one around William Carlos Williams. Homeboy's got a problem...

He's got a red wheelbarrow full of them and yet he's still taking them from my fridge! What a jerk.

[EvRobert 1684]

Okay general thoughts and notes, plus a story or two.

 

As I mentioned, this musical is my favorite musical of all time. And while I LIKE the movie (and own it because support) I don't love it as much as the stage show.

 

The stage show with it's minimalist set, piano and hard accompaniment, the use of the Mute and El Gallo serving as the narrator just hits all the right notes for me (so to speak). it exists on an ethereal plain that is neither here nor there. It is timeless in a way that works. This musical has shaped the way I direct and write. Almost all my scripts include a narrator character and when I direct, I tend to go for a more stripped down look and feel to things (which was interesting when I directed LEGALLY BLONDE).

 

In Defense of El Gallo:

 

El Gallo I don't think is the rogue or the villain or the antagonist. He is the facilitator. To Matt he needs to be the villain, to Luisia the "man in black" (so to speak) rakish and yet horrible. To the fathers and the actors, he is the director. To the audience he is their guide and the star. He invites the audience, with TRY TO REMEMBER (the few times I still act, this is my go to audition song), to "remember". It waxes nostalgic and then leads us into this world where too young lovers believe a moon made of cardboard is a real moon, that a mute holding a stick is a wall. He plays on their imaginations. Traditionally, on stage, the fight between Matt and El Gallo is done with wooden sticks or wooden swords. Then everything isn't. and yet it is.

 

El Callo is like Cupid, in my eyes. He knows Matt and Luisia belong together, but they can't be as long as they have childish notions of love. So his job is to do what he has to do in order to bring them together. This is a failing of the movie, but I think seeing him drive off at the end adn touch the necklace is a subtle reminder of that.

 

The Movie

 

I was in production of The Fantasticks in 1995 when this movie was being cast, directed, etc. I remember hearing about it and thinking "Joel Grey! Awesome!" "Teller! Perfect!" "that girl from Mr Holland's Opus. She can sing." "Joey McIntyre? the hell?" And I think it shows. I know this was a passion project for Michael Ritche, but he just wasn't right. It requires a lighter touch and more nostalgic touch. My perfect version of this movie would be fucking expensive but every scene would be filmed at "magic hour".

 

Also, I wouldn't have combined the Mute and Mortimer into one character. I understand WHY they did it, but I hate it. I also hate that they gave Henry's best lines (the butchered Shakespeare) to the Fathers. I am curious to see what Coppola did in the final cut (I've only ever seen his version not Ritchie's version). But I don't think, personally, Ritchies could be all that better.

 

McIntyre, you can tell, has no acting experience. It's all "gee golly shucks". I think they could get him cheap and would give them a pop on name recognition because the rest of the cast are character actors, magicians, or virtual unknowns.

 

Also going full orchestration and singing live on set were both big mistakes.

 

HOWEVER

 

This movie has shaped how I would like to direct the stage version of this, if I ever got a chance. Basically, I would emphasis the "Americananess" that Ritchie was going for by replacing the traditional piano and hard with guitar, banjo, mandolin, etc. I like the circus feel and would probably keep that with the chorus (which is sometimes use and sometimes not in stage productions).

 

Overall verdict though, while this is an okay adaptation, it just doesn't work like the stage version does. Something is lacking. In a weird way, I think the ony way to make this work on film is to do it Dogme 95 style and then start breaking the Dogme rules. Can you imagine Lars Von Teir's version of The Fantasticks?

 

StoryTime With EvRobert

 

So I mentioned I did this show in '95 in college. I played Henry and had a blast. It's where I fell in love with the show and cemented my love of theater as something I HAD to do the rest of my life (I just wish I was making good, livable money on it). The role of Mat was played by another theater guy who kind of took me in under his wing, Luisia by a girl I went to HS with, and the role Matt's father was played by a man named Rob Beckley. Rob later went on to form a popular Christian rock band called PILLAR. It was my one brush with performing with someone famous until I started doing podcast radio dramas and worked with a guy who had been in Star Trek and another who had been in Harry Potter.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Interesting note: while I agree with EvR's suggestion that it looks like Mortimer and the Mute were merged, that's not the case. In reality, El Gallo takes on most of the Mute's jobs (snowing etc). Casting Teller makes it seem like Mortimer's mute, because Teller's usual schtick is to not speak, but (as you well know EvR) Mortimer has a major, important speech right after El Gallo is 'defeated'.

 

And here it is. I present the non-mute Mortimer.