Casablanca

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

Paul & Amy will always have 1942’s Humphrey Bogart WWII romance Casablanca! They learn the trick Bogart used to make himself a magnetic romantic lead, ask each other what their most used Casablanca quote is, and watch an alternate ending as imagined by The Simpsons. Plus: Ben Mankiewicz (TCM, The Plot Thickens) shares why he thinks Casablanca is a greatest-film-of-all-time contender.

Join us next week as we say goodbye to the AFI list and tell you what we have in store for Season 2. In the meantime, see if you can cut the list down to 50 must-keep films! Follow us on Twitter @Unspooled, get more info at unspooledpod.com and don’t forget to rate, review & subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Also check out our live Spool Party episodes on youtube.com/earwolf!

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

 

 

 

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

I don't really think there's an argument for this coming off the list. Seems to check every box.

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

I got a copy of Casablanca, but haven't rewatched it yet. Thinking of comparing it to something like In the Mood for Love or Happy Together when I do get to it. 

Not sure if that thought of comparisons is helpful - admittedly, I don't think I've seen Casablanca in over 20 years, so I might not be remembering a lot of the details.

[grudlian. 4725]

In case someone hasn't seen this.

[DannytheWall 196]

Anyone else notice Paul's extended conversation about how Bogart was perfectly casted and how casting someone else would have given an entirely different feeling for the film?

No one else flashbacked to Amy's conversation about Goodfellas?   

Edited July 17, 2020 by DannytheWall
Edited for smileys, just in case

[DannytheWall 196]

This was a weird re-watch for me. Almost every line had a huge emotional resonance.  It's a movie whose central conceit is people trapped in a foreign country desperately seeking special papers to flee a country while the world is up-ended under politically-charged circumstances? Uh, check.   

I'm currently sitting in Kuala Lumpur, in the middle of a transition to Thailand, but facing roadblocks, restrictions, and uncertainty because the fate of my career hangs on paperwork-- a visa needed to enter Thailand, but embassies are closed, flights are restricted, and the world is distruting strangers and sheltering in place. 

To hear Paul say that papers for traveling are "not real" and essentially meaningless struck me like a knife, I gotta admit. Sure, there is no background of world war to same extent, but replace "Nazis who want to chase you down" with "a pandemic that will infect you if you aren't careful" and the stakes are still pretty high. 

It is not some "fictional thing." Real people, and a good number in more dire circumstances than mine, have something as "meaningless" as a paper to which to hang the rest of their lives. We don't want to admit that all the safety we construct for ourselves can be taken or given at the stroke of a pen, but it's real. 

   

 

 

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

8 hours ago, DannytheWall said:

To hear Paul say that papers for traveling are "not real" and essentially meaningless struck me like a knife, I gotta admit. Sure, there is no background of world war to same extent, but replace "Nazis who want to chase you down" with "a pandemic that will infect you if you aren't careful" and the stakes are still pretty high. 

It is not some "fictional thing." Real people, and a good number in more dire circumstances than mine, have something as "meaningless" as a paper to which to hang the rest of their lives. We don't want to admit that all the safety we construct for ourselves can be taken or given at the stroke of a pen, but it's real. 

I had taken his meaning that those specific, "no one can question them" papers, to the point that a German occupied French colony could no longer arrest a man they know they wanted and who was parading around under his real name - those papers don't exist.

The extent of which, I don't know, does the film explain why the German officer doesn't just arrest Lazlo the second he meets him at Rick's? (I got 40 minutes in last night before something came up).

I'm not familiar with how the rule of law was working in such circumstances at that time. I think you hear of the importance of transit papers in that period of time partially when 1. Right before Germany invaded a country and people were trying to get out before they got there or 2. Their dissidence or was more incognito in some way (or they were traveling under a false name).

ETA: disclaimer, I'm not a history major, nor is my knowledge of transit papers from a comprehensive, historical source.

e.g. news articles such as https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/how-a-disobedient-diplomat-saved-jews-in-ww2/ar-BB15AcV5

And/or maybe re-inforced by contemporary fictionalizations such as the movie, Transit.

[DannytheWall 196]

2 hours ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

had taken his meaning that those specific, "no one can question them" papers, to the point that a German occupied French colony could no longer arrest a man they know they wanted and who was parading around under his real name - those papers don't exist.

 The extent of which, I don't know, does the film explain why the German officer doesn't just arrest Lazlo the second he meets him at Rick's? (I got 40 minutes in last night before something came up).

Yes, I'm not pointing out any plot holes in my reaction - I'm merely pointing out how resonant this situation was for me, personally, and how that led to my reaction. If I were to critique Paul's point that the papers are MacGuffins, I'd argue that it's not technically the case, since the papers are, in fact, "real" in way that MacGuffins usually aren't, but at that point it's pretty much semantics. 

As far as the German officer not arresting Laszlo, it's my understanding that Morocco was not German-occupied, as part of the southern "Free Zone" of Vinchy France, part of its overseas French protectorates. There was some "official" neutrality to Morocco, although definitely it could never be free from German oversight and presense. Not an historian here, either, but I think there are issues of jurisdiction and diplomacy that make it complicated. And precisely why Casablanca became an important city for refugees. There's also the issue of making Laszlo a martyr, which the film address by having the Germans consider not IF he would be a martyr, but simply which degree and by what means. 

[FictionIsntReal 79]

Casablanca's general release was in 1943. Mrs. Miniver had already come out as essentially advocacy for America's intervention in the war in the summer of 1942 (it had been filmed prior to Pearl Harbor). Miniver swept the 1942 Oscars (Casablanca won Best Picture the next year), which only seems explicable for non-artistic reasons, as hardly anybody remembers it nowadays compared to Casablanca.

The stage play was much more like a noir, with a less sympathetic protagonist. It still ends with Isla & Laszlo escaping together (even without the Hollywood Code prohibiting a woman leaving her husband), but Rick's one virtuous act at the end is rewarded with being captured by the Germans.

9 hours ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

e.g. news articles such as https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/how-a-disobedient-diplomat-saved-jews-in-ww2/ar-BB15AcV5

Quote

Among those who escaped occupied France thanks to his visas were surrealist artist Salvador Dalí, filmmaker King Vidor

Dali was a Spanish citizen, Vidor was an American, so I don't see why either needed Portugese visas.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

7 hours ago, DannytheWall said:

As far as the German officer not arresting Laszlo, it's my understanding that Morocco was not German-occupied, as part of the southern "Free Zone" of Vinchy France, part of its overseas French protectorates. There was some "official" neutrality to Morocco, although definitely it could never be free from German oversight and presense. Not an historian here, either, but I think there are issues of jurisdiction and diplomacy that make it complicated. And precisely why Casablanca became an important city for refugees. There's also the issue of making Laszlo a martyr, which the film address by having the Germans consider not IF he would be a martyr, but simply which degree and by what means. 

Yeah, at least within the world of the movie this is made pretty clear, that people specifically come to Casablanca because there is more freedom than in Europe and also a greater chance of being able to escape to safer lands. Not sure how historically accurate to the period that is, but within the world of the movie it makes sense that this is why Laszlo is not arrested immediately. I'm sure they would have arrested and killed him eventually if he'd stuck around longer.

[FictionIsntReal 79]

If anyone wants to read the original play, this scan isn't great but was the best I could find in a short time of searching.

[DannytheWall 196]

1 hour ago, FictionIsntReal said:

If anyone wants to read the original play, this scan isn't great but was the best I could find in a short time of searching.

You win. 

Also... wow. Just, wow. I'll want to read through more than just the end pages, but it's clear the movie is vast improvement on the source. 

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

On 7/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, ol' eddy wrecks said:

I got a copy of Casablanca, but haven't rewatched it yet. Thinking of comparing it to something like In the Mood for Love or Happy Together when I do get to it. 

Not sure if that thought of comparisons is helpful - admittedly, I don't think I've seen Casablanca in over 20 years, so I might not be remembering a lot of the details.

Short answer - no. In something like ItMfL, the dynamic is just so different. Restless (as referred to in the opening credits) is one way they're separated. And in Casablanca, it's all pretty much overtly stated and acted out. The only thing they really had in common was the sense of, "this was just the wrong time and place for us. maybe in a different world," aspect. But even that's lands different, tonally.  So, I have nothing to contribute off the top of my head for comparison to other, more contemporary movies.