FisterRoboto

I keep saying "The movie doesn't show him being supportive of her" and you keep saying "Show me when he's not supportive." It's literally impossible to give you a quote from the movie or cite a scene that doesn't exist. The proof, in this case, is the LACK of evidence to the contrary. But you keep setting up a criteria to change your mind that doesn't exist and pretending like I'm just pulling it out of my ass while condescendingly telling me to cite the part of the movie where the thing doesn't happen. As to her support, I could point to her supporting his idea for the jazz club, drawing the logo for that club, being at every show we see, dancing along with music she has said she doesn't really like, or even encouraging him to open the club instead of playing in a band he hates. And that's just off the top of my head. Most of the first two acts of this movie are her encouraging and supporting him.

Yes, and I don't agree with most of those examples showing him being all that supportive (as evidenced by the fact that I said as much to each of them). My point is that we SEE Mia be there for him repeatedly. But we don't SEE him there for her in the same way. That's the whole point. There are no examples to give because he's just.....not there. Which was in response to you using the scene to show that it was a selfless task he was doing.

It's only Wednesday, man. We've got some time Now, where do we get two more LLLs to keep this going? (PS - I <3 that thread)

I don't see her as passive aggressive at all. I see her as saying, "You've been complaining the WHOLE TIME I've known you about doing this. Are you sure this is what you want to do forever?" Maybe it's just "tough love" How so? I said she's not a priority. This could be because most of the time, we're seeing his rise (Mia's career really takes the back seat until the third act). But, yes, he's supporting her financially...because she's doing the thing he told her to do! And I also think you are totally underplaying how big of a deal him missing her show was. It's literally THE THING she's been working towards for the bulk of the movie. He's too caught up in his own shit to even make it. We don't SEE him be there for her the way that she is for him every single step of the way in his career. It's not that he misses a bunch of performances or something; it's that we literally don't see him being the kind of support that she is. I guess you and I see that scene very differently. I don't really think berating people has anything to do with "love." And I also didn't claim this scene was him being selfish. But it is definitely him being an asshole. I don't think anyone has said she's not self-absorbed, but you seem to take exception to us pointing out all the shitty things Seb does in the movie, which is (again) by and large a byproduct of him being the focal point of most of the film. And I don't know what you're looking for when you tell me to give you "specific scenes/examples" when my whole point is that those scenes don't exist. I'm fine accepting that Mia is selfish, but painting Seb as some kind of hero that's up on a cross for Mia's success is a really wild read on that character.

To be fair, that's largely because (as Taylor has pointed out a bunch), Seb is the one with a more fully fleshed-out character. Most of the movie is from his perspective and about him. So, like, I get it that Mia might not be the best, but a lot of that is us having to fill in the blanks about her because we're given almost nothing.

I don't see her response as petty at all. She asks him when he's going to be home, and he says that they tour to afford another album and then record another album so they can tour. And that's when she says, "So you're in it for the long haul?" She's asking if this is something he's willing to commit to because for the whole rest of the movie, he's been complaining about how he doesn't want to do it. The only person I see being petty in this convo is Seb when he tells her she only liked him when he was failing because it made her feel better about herself. Which is just a shitty thing to say solely to hurt another person. He constantly condescends and infantilizes her. It's not just that he missed her show; it's that she's clearly not the priority to her because he's too busy being a sad sack about having to play poppy jazz to be there for her. But we see her there for him every single step of the way. Sure, he shows up....so that he can berate her and call her a baby. What a charming, charming selfless man. Like, I get it that maybe he's not the absolute villain, but he's so incredibly self-absorbed and self-righteous that everything is about him until the very end. But because he FINALLY shows up for a thing and then lets her go in the end, yay for him! What a swell, swell guy.

Maybe he thinks loving her forever is the same as royalties.

What would have happened if Mia's aunt had lived in, like, Greece or something?

Yeah, but he's not like, "Hey, when your show is over, wanna join me on the tour for a bit?" He's asking her to abandon the thing that she's working on (and that he told her to make) to come be with him. I don't see that as very supportive.

It's almost like he's super selfish and not really a supportive partner or something...

Wtf are you trying to say about Cobra? Anyway, yeah, I think you're right. But it's not limited just to this thing. It's the whole American Dream angle. Without going too much into an anti-capitalism tangent, it's the idea we hear repeated over and over and over again that if you just work hard, you can make it! Never mind that - whether it's being an actress or a playwright or a musician or a copywriter or a developer or a designer - it's often more about who you know mixed with a large amount of dumb luck. (and the end of the movie proves that) Like, I get that he's trying to encourage her creatively, and that's cool. But it definitely is silly for either of them to pin of their hopes for her career on this one thing.

Man, now I really wish we had THIS movie. I know you said Michael B Jordan earlier, but I'm thinking more along the lines of Wyatt Cenac playing Seb. Have you ever seen Medicine for Melancholy? I imagine a Seb that's very similar to that character. Instead of being upset about the jazz club being turned into a "samba and tapas bar," it would be about gentrification. Like, every single thing the movie is doing with Seb's character would work so much better.

Sorry, too many "hes" again. I meant that having White Keith whitesplain jazz to Black Seb changes that dynamic and makes Keith the asshole. But when it's JL and Gosling, Gosling comes off looking like the asshole.

A few things about that: 1. I would have believed Ryan Gosling as a "Keith" more than John Legend. 2. It would have actually made Keith more of a "villain" if he was whitesplaining how jazz needs to progress to a black character. 3. I'd totally be into it.