Yet Another Sponsor Complaint

[Professor MacJake 0]

I need to preface this by saying that I'm a huge fan of Matt Basser not only for this podcast, which I adore, but also as far back as the old Upright Citizens Brigade show on Comedy Central. Back in '98 or so when we finally got cable out in the rural Midwest I distinctly remember seeing South Park and the UCB in one glorious hour of counter cultural television and having my mind blown. Being only 13 I technically wasn't allowed by my parents to watch CC so there was a lot of groggy late night viewings that sort of blended with the Kids in the Hall reruns which lead me to mistakenly believe that Besser and Kevin McDonald were the same person for the longest time.

 

At any rate, I have been listening to the podcast for over a year now, and I realize that the host and performers and fairly left-leaning and derive great humor from questioning traditional morality, which I even as a practicing Christian find funny. But I have to admit that I was surprised that Matt would have a site that sells pornographic material as a sponsor. I know that the show needs financial support, and it doesn't upset me like that guy who was offended by the head shop ads to where I won't recommend the show to my friends, but I had assumed that liberals (in the American sense) tend to be critical of the exploitation of women. I know Matt has espoused very forceful left-wing principles in the past, and I thought (perhaps I'm imagining this) he had described himself as a feminist. Even if all the production companies that Adam & Eve sell DVDs on behalf of are above board and all their performers are freely consenting parties doing what's within their rights to do with their own bodies, doesn't shilling this material still contribute to a culture that demeans and objectifies women? - as well as encouraging other women who may not be in the San Fernando valley to seek fame and fortune in pornography and end up horrifically abused by a less than ideal production company?

 

Perhaps I'm off base and imposing my own morality where it shouldn't be. But I figured this show is open to exchanges of ideas like this and thought I would share. I still love the show, I'll still listen every week - Thursday is literally my best day at work because of the great comedy being served. Regardless of how you feel, Matt, thank you for putting this passion project out there for the sheltered kids in the heartland like me. I don't agree 100% with you but my laughter is genuine. Thanks.

[BrettMorris 1862]

One could say a lot more about the bible demeaning women.

 

I don't see anything morally wrong with sex toys.

[Professor MacJake 0]

I don't see anything wrong with sex toys either! Manufacturing, selling, buying and/or using them, there's nothing objectionable in and of itself. In fact, I would guess that the vast majority of Adam & Eve's business is done in that trade, because who really buys porn DVDs? What I'm asking about, because I'm keen to understand and not because I'm looking to damn anyone to hell, is the disconnect between very forcefully progressive on sexual issues and accepting money from businesses that are profiting from the exploitation of sexuality.

 

You mentioned the Bible - yes, there are very horrific stories in it about the mistreatment of women, who were considered not much better than livestock. Powerful Judeo-Christian elites have used those stories to foster a patriarchal mindset and to create coercive systems where women were forced to submit to the male sexual needs in all aspects of life as an effective tool to enrich themselves and entrench their social control. Some women, even today among fundamentalists, are active collaborators with that kind of system, but it doesn't change the abusive nature of it.

 

The pornography industry, while not operating on nearly that scale, uses that same oppressive culture for its own ends. This is a broad generalization, but one I think is accurate: Middle to upper class producers, overwhelmingly male, relentlessly farm women that have been physically or psychologically abused, or had little access to education, or simply have no other economic opportunities, and have them perform in activities that glorify sexual domination and humiliation, which not only potentially harms the performers themselves but also the millions of impressionable viewers who interpret those images as validating at best viewing women as objects always ready for a sexual encounter, and at worst distorting sexuality into violence aggression -- all in the pursuit of the almighty dollar. Of course, not every performer is a runaway from drug addict abusive parents, not every person who watches a DVD will go out and rape someone, but to say that this booming industry hasn't had some negative effect on the deteriorating sexual life of this country is naive.

 

It is for this reason that I found is odd that Matt, who I remember denouncing angrily those insane Senators in the last election who had bizarre views on rape and abortion and other women's issues, would turn a blind eye on this issue, which I think is part of the same spectrum. I'm not saying he's a 'bad' person for doing so, I'm just curious what the rationale is.

[JacobCrites 4977]

Why is this thread even a thing?

[mattbesser 605]

First let me say, thanks for being a long term fan. Seems to me you really only have a problem with the free DVD? Because Adam & Eve does not produce porn and as far as I can dicern from looking at their site they don't even sell it. So I did not do an ad for a porn company. They are known for selling sex toys and lingere and I have no problem with either of those things. I sincerely believe that my reading of that ad has caused zero ripples of bad morality to be spread into the universe. I guess by writing this rant that you must never masturbate to porn. That is truly impressive but you must realize you are in a very very very small minority of American men if that is true. So every comedian you know is USING porn, half of them talk about it in their act at some point, so do you have a problem with that? Do you use a cable system that distributes porn?

[Hot - Slunch 772]

Fine. More porn for me then.

 

Just so you know, the guys in porn aren't exactly treated well either. Male 'actors' get paid far less than the women, and they arguably do more work, for very little screen time. Why is nobody defending the men in porn?!

[MichaelStanford 69]

What I'm asking about, because I'm keen to understand and not because I'm looking to damn anyone to hell, is the disconnect between very forcefully progressive on sexual issues and accepting money from businesses that are profiting from the exploitation of sexuality.

 

I think there's only a disconnect if your opinion is that porn is somehow diminishing to those who participate in it.

 

If profiting from the exploitation of sexuality bothers you, then why don't you have a problem with sex toys?

 

This is a broad generalization, but one I think is accurate: Middle to upper class producers, overwhelmingly male, relentlessly farm women that have been physically or psychologically abused, or had little access to education, or simply have no other economic opportunities, and have them perform in activities that glorify sexual domination and humiliation, which not only potentially harms the performers themselves but also the millions of impressionable viewers who interpret those images as validating at best viewing women as objects always ready for a sexual encounter, and at worst distorting sexuality into violence aggression -- all in the pursuit of the almighty dollar.

 

That's incredibly assumptive.

 

I'd be willing to bet that most porn actresses would disagree with you. I'd wager that they're empowered by their sexuality, and that they made a conscious choice to pursue the career that they're in. Equally assumptive, but that's the tone of the conversation.

 

I don't think the types of people who view women as objects are doing it because of porn. They're doing it because they're shitty people who aren't able to empathize with others. They don't just treat women as objects, they treat people as objects.

 

Of course, not every performer is a runaway from drug addict abusive parents, not every person who watches a DVD will go out and rape someone, but to say that this booming industry hasn't had some negative effect on the deteriorating sexual life of this country is naive.

 

What 'deteriorating sexual life of this country'? What are you even talking about?

 

If anything, the fact that we have porn should be celebrated as proof of our country's sexual openness, not blamed for whatever made-up statistics you're talking about.

 

It is for this reason that I found is odd that Matt, who I remember denouncing angrily those insane Senators in the last election who had bizarre views on rape and abortion and other women's issues, would turn a blind eye on this issue, which I think is part of the same spectrum. I'm not saying he's a 'bad' person for doing so, I'm just curious what the rationale is.

 

I can't speak for Matt, but to me these aren't at all a part of the same spectrum. The only common denominator is vagina.

[Professor MacJake 0]

First let me say, thanks for being a long term fan. Seems to me you really only have a problem with the free DVD?

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Immediately I should clarify that I don’t necessarily have a “problem”, which in my mind implies that I’m angered or upset. Just interested enough to bother to ask about it, particularly after remembering you mentioning another listener complaining about an advertiser on the forums. I’m not advocating for any action to be taken with the ad. I’m not even going to claim I’m right and you’re wrong. I’m just curious about the ambivalence a lot of people who normally object to mistreatment of women have to an industry which, in my opinion, is an active participant in that mistreatment – if not for the 1% of actresses that the media loves to talk about, then for the thousands of others who are caught in the physical, psychological and economic coercion underpinning the industry.

 

 

Because Adam & Eve does not produce porn and as far as I can dicern from looking at their site they don't even sell it. So I did not do an ad for a porn company. They are known for selling sex toys and lingere and I have no problem with either of those things.

 

They do have quite an extensive collection of mail-order pornography on their website, but yes, their primary business seems to be sex toys. I have no problem with them either.

 

I sincerely believe that my reading of that ad has caused zero ripples of bad morality to be spread into the universe. I guess by writing this rant that you must never masturbate to porn. That is truly impressive but you must realize you are in a very very very small minority of American men if that is true. So every comedian you know is USING porn, half of them talk about it in their act at some point, so do you have a problem with that? Do you use a cable system that distributes porn?

 

The questions you post are important, because they’re part of the daily struggle of attempting to live ethically in a modern society like ours. Yes, I have masturbated to porn in the past, and yes, I realize that I am in the extreme minority of Americans both in deciding to refrain from it as well as questioning the societal benefits of the industry as it currently exists. I could completely cut myself off from the world and never listen or read any material that is created by people who disagree with me, but how does that help anyone? It’s impossible at any rate - I know form firsthand experience that it is extremely fucking boring and unfunny to live in that world. And at my core I am, like everyone on the planet, a self-interested animal who hypocritically thinks of his own personal safety first – for example I don’t approve of American war & imperialism abroad, yet I still use American currency and pay American taxes which directly contribute to those injustices to avoid imprisonment. Looking past that, though, I think it is the critical (and respectful!) engagement with ideas and people who challenge my own that I can learn and grow and hopefully articulate what I believe to be a way of living that is more just for everyone in a society. When I am wrong, I should learn from it and adapt.

 

Basically, I am particularly struck by a growing indifference, not only among policymakers of all parties who simply don’t care about the plight of people not in their socio-economic circumstances, but also my generation of men and women who are, at impressionable ages, conditioned to view human sexuality as a receptacle solely for personal gratification without any consequences for themselves, the performers, or society as a whole. Jerking off to a porno may feel victimless, but buying that DVD or clicking that link tells advertisers there’s a market for those videos, and there’s money to be made the more they’re churned out, and women (& men) who can’t find jobs resort to selling a part of themselves to producers who may not be operating as ethically as those in California and have no problem exerting control through drugs or violence, to feed an audience that views such a system as a commodity they have no responsibility for. I think that means there’s a smidgen of bad ju-ju from accepting money from those people, but again, I am not the end all authority on the issue. I’m curious as to your thoughts on the matter.

 

Thanks again.

[Professor MacJake 0]

 

I think there's only a disconnect if your opinion is that porn is somehow diminishing to those who participate in it.

 

If profiting from the exploitation of sexuality bothers you, then why don't you have a problem with sex toys?

 

How are sex toys inherently exploitative? There’s nothing about a dildo in and of itself that leads to patriarchical tyranny. My only problem with a sex toy is when it becomes, like, a murder weapon or something.

 

 

That's incredibly assumptive.

 

I'd be willing to bet that most porn actresses would disagree with you. I'd wager that they're empowered by their sexuality, and that they made a conscious choice to pursue the career that they're in. Equally assumptive, but that's the tone of the conversation.

 

I don't think the types of people who view women as objects are doing it because of porn. They're doing it because they're shitty people who aren't able to empathize with others. They don't just treat women as objects, they treat people as objects.

 

Since we’re making wild generalizations: Michelle Bachman believes that women should totally submit to their husbands in all matters and enshrine the male sex as the fount of God’s wisdom on earth through the Lutheran Church she is a member of. She has also made a shit ton of money and political influence peddling this garbage to men and women across the country. Just because someone is empowered by an injustice against their own identity group doesn’t make it right? Yes, Jenna Jameson is as bad as Michelle Bachman.

 

 

 

What 'deteriorating sexual life of this country'? What are you even talking about?

 

If anything, the fact that we have porn should be celebrated as proof of our country's sexual openness, not blamed for whatever made-up statistics you're talking about.

 

I can't speak for Matt, but to me these aren't at all a part of the same spectrum. The only common denominator is vagina.

 

Violence, especially against women, both physically and economically, has certainly always been with us. Perhaps we’re no better or no worse than cavemen clubbing people over the head and having our way with them. But as I said in my above reply, I perceive, however subjectively, a growing acceptance of this dehumanization among people my age. But this doesn’t mean that I think sexuality is bad, or that pornographers will be punished by God or the state should forcibly ban it or whatever, I just question the ambivalence people have to the effects of the proliferation of pornography. If you don’t see any negatives – good for you. Nothing some guy on the internet will say will probably convince you. Just please think about it the next time you see someone double penetrated and creampied.

[mattbesser 605]

Sorry I disagree with a lot of what you say but I don't care to debate it, It wasn't a topic on the show. And not a topic I feel particularly knowledgeable about. I guess I listen to too much Howard Stern to agree with you 100%. You really squeezed this topic out of that ad as far as I'm concerned. What I'm more interested in is where on the site are you finding these porn movies for sale. I've been to the site twice and I still can't find it. How did you find it?

[Professor MacJake 0]

Fair enough, thanks for your time.

[greggy 15909]

this guy dangling worms for his 'case closed' fishing trip

[DanEngler 5249]

Whatever, I just jerked it to Besser's ad read for Adam & Eve. #SENSUAL

[hugLife 492]

@MacJake

It is pretty funny how people choose to nitpick over free comedy. Even if someone doesn't agree with an ad, are they going to choose to sponsor the show to get rid of it? I will probably never ever use squarespace, but I appreciate that they help make all of these free laughs possible.

It is pretty hypocritical to start talking about the morality of an ad that was marketed to couples for Valentine's Day, which by the very nature of the ad, is targeting both men and women (hence Adam AND EVE).

Don't try to turn the forums into a place where you can exercise your personal politics over a sponsor. If you want more of a say, start donating $300 a week to keep I4H running. Until then, either listen and laugh, or close out of the page. Nobody will miss you.

[vgfitzger 46]

Sorry I disagree with a lot of what you say but I don't care to debate it, It wasn't a topic on the show. And not a topic I feel particularly knowledgeable about. I guess I listen to too much Howard Stern to agree with you 100%. You really squeezed this topic out of that ad as far as I'm concerned. What I'm more interested in is where on the site are you finding these porn movies for sale. I've been to the site twice and I still can't find it. How did you find it?

It's right in the main navigation bar. Third from the right, it says "Adult Movies." Pretty obvious. Maybe if you navigated the web with less then 50 tabs each buffering a different asian anal anime clip for once you'd have seen it. Embrace the fact that you're a cog in the porn industry. It's good money, millions of hopelessly addicted users can't be wrong!

[MichaelStanford 69]

patriarchical tyranny.

 

Oh, okay, well I'm done here.