Episode 157 — IQ of a Corpse

[createtildeath 83]

Wow, is Monica Lewinsky just asking for more cyber bullying? Because that's what's already happening. Ridiculous

[mattbesser 605]

I'm not going to continue this debate here but you are all welcome to Case Closed.

Here are my criticisms/opinions that you can debate:

1. ML has repeatedly tried to parlay the Clinton affair into a career for heself.

2. I don't believe that she is a completely innocent victim who is above public criticism. She doesn't deserve slut-shaming but I believe she knowlingly slept with a married man; knowingly did something that could jeopardize the presidency; and she is a fame-monger. I also think she is a phony and a liar. (like all politicians pretty much)

3. Using her age as an excuse isn't an excuse.

4. She wanted to keep the blue dress to prove to the world that she had slept with Clinton.

5. Ultimately she is a bad choice to be the spokesperson for cyberbullying.

 

* And just because I don't want Valerie to go to bed angry...when this all went down I was angry with Clinton too. Because he cheated on his wife who I love and also I believe the incident helped usher in the Bush era. But I think Clinton has regreted the incident and tried to leave it behind whereas I believe ML loves that it all happened as much as she says the opposite.

[Hot - Slunch 772]

That was a pretty solid Fulcher impression at the end. Is there any chance of Rich showing up on an I4H to promote the Adult Swim stuff?

[AndyPacheco-Fores 437]

I'm not going to continue this debate here but you are all welcome to Case Closed.

Here are my criticisms/opinions that you can debate:

1. ML has repeatedly tried to parlay the Clinton affair into a career for heself.

2. I don't believe that she is a completely innocent victim who is above public criticism. She doesn't deserve slut-shaming but I believe she knowlingly slept with a married man; knowingly did something that could jeopardize the presidency; and she is a fame-monger. I also think she is a phony and a liar. (like all politicians pretty much)

3. Using her age as an excuse isn't an excuse.

4. She wanted to keep the blue dress to prove to the world that she had slept with Clinton.

5. Ultimately she is a bad choice to be the spokesperson for cyberbullying.

 

* And just because I don't want Valerie to go to bed angry...when this all went down I was angry with Clinton too. Because he cheated on his wife who I love and also I believe the incident helped usher in the Bush era. But I think Clinton has regreted the incident and tried to leave it behind whereas I believe ML loves that it all happened as much as she says the opposite.

OK I'll do Case Closed if Erudite crudite's not up for it. Doesn't seem like we'll ever agree on her motives or what kind of person she is but the cyberbullying angle is worth talking about more. Who do I contact to set it up?

[DEATHMAN 3317]

She doesn't deserve slut-shaming but I believe she knowlingly slept with a married man; knowingly did something that could jeopardize the presidency;

lmao

 

Seriously how can you say that and then put in literal footnote saying "oh also clinton shouldn't have cheated" and say you aren't mad at her for daring to have sex

[Erudite crudite 225]

Yeah, you can take the reins, pfchangs!

 

Maybe someone can make a case that by 2001, Monica had made herself a public figure and so brought criticism on herself. But until January 1999, nearly a year after Drudge, she had done absolutely no self-promotion. She was under gag order. She wasn't allowed to speak to the press. And that was when the meanest, hounding criticisms came out. That's when she was depressed and suicidal. No, she wasn't above criticism. But it was so disproportionate and so harsh that of course it amounted to bullying.

 

There are four self-promotiony things she did after the gag order was lifted: SNL, Jenny Craig, the reality show, and the handbags. She did these for money, and for image reclamation. And yeah, she was indulging in some attention-seeking too. But frankly, the world had fucked her over, so she was allowed to yell a big fuck you back to the world. When all of America and all of the media calls you a fat slut and you start thinking about suicide, you are permitted to indulge in some of your attention-seeking tendencies in order to maintain your self-worth.

 

And then, once she tried shouting back at the world, she let herself disappear. Those 4 self-promotiony things were tiny blips. It is hugely telling that she has not put herself in the spotlight for nearly fifteen years. I don't know why Matt thinks she loved that it happened. She has hid from the media almost entirely.

 

And given Tripp's tapes, I find the claims that she saved the blue dress for fame from the get-go to be totally untenable.

[greggy 15909]

if only bill clinton had known that having an affair would threaten his marriage and presidency, another pre-9/11 interdepartmental briefing cock-up

[Numlocks 14]

The idea that she couldn't get a real job and had to go on tv to make money is a bunch of bullshit. I didn't realize you got paid so much money for a cameo on SNL.

[Lukas Holmes 2287]

I always knew the Lewinsky affair would be what finally brought about the great I4H civil war.

[BrettMorris 1862]

OK I'll do Case Closed if Erudite crudite's not up for it. Doesn't seem like we'll ever agree on her motives or what kind of person she is but the cyberbullying angle is worth talking about more. Who do I contact to set it up?

Thomas the Milkman will set it up with you. There will be a call-in number you just dial in.

[Poika 615]

Thomas the Milkman will set it up with you.

HA! I needed that little bit of levity in this thread!

[Branko 32]

Chiming in to say: Have Hulne on again, dude's fuckin' hilarious.

[NicholasArthurTallidis 247]

I get the feeling that some people just really want to get on case closed and are just trying to rile Besser up in hopes of an invitation.

[hypnotizingchickens 1025]

I get the feeling that some people just really want to get on case closed and are just trying to rile Besser up in hopes of an invitation.

 

as I always understood it, the chance to be on the show for case closed has always been wide open... so I don't think you'd have to "rile him up" much. Matt has said several times that he wishes more people would step up to debate so it could inspire some improv, but not many are up to the challenge... as they tend to immediately concede their points while they just let whoever's on the show eviscerate them.

 

I wish I had that strong of an opinion on anything that would be antithetical to his or anyone else's views... because case closed sounds like it would be really fun to participate in. Gemberling's beastiality debate remains one of the greatest things I've ever heard (and watched) on a podcast.

[saddlebags 581]

Chiming in to say: Have Hulne on again, dude's fuckin' hilarious.

 

 

This. Dude added some hilarious chill energy to the show.

[SridharRamesh 3]

Boy, I really didn't like the discussion of Monica Lewinisky before the skit. Saying that she should be living in a shack and that she's getting appropriate criticism is totally buying into the narrative that bullies have written for her. It's the reason that she is right to do what she's doing now.

 

Lewinsky was wrong to get involved with Clinton. That's true. But, well, take the worst sexual decision you've ever made in your life. Imagine that every person in America knew that about you, and that's all that they knew about you. That would be horrible, right? How many of your friends do you think have fooled around with someone else in a relationship when they were in their early twenties? How much criticism do you think they deserve for that? If every single talk show host on the planet started calling your friend a slut and started making jokes about how much she likes cum, would you think he or she deserved it and that it was fair criticism? Or would you think that there could reach a point at which the "criticism" became sexist bullying? Monica was a young girl who made a mistake, but holy shit yes, she was bullied harder than nearly anyone before her for what was a youthful mistake. (Not to mention, it's little more understandable for a young woman to get involved with some guy who approaches her if he's the PRESIDENT. If Clinton asked me to blow him and stick a cigar up my butt, I'd probably do it.)

 

Then there's the self-promotion stuff, but remember this: Lewinsky was court-ordered to not say anything about Clinton for years and years. She had no voice, and she did not appear on TV for a long time, so comedians and late night hosts invented a whole persona for her that bore no resemblance to reality. All of her friends said they saw nothing of Monica in the popular conception of Monica. She lost control of her own identity, and that fake identity was the one everyone saw, so she could not go out for a coffee without the world slutshaming her and people on the street calling her fat. Her life was ruined, and she basically tried to retreat into a shack (like Besser says that she still should be doing), but that was impossible. Besser saying that "If you want people to leave you alone, don't go in TV; it's not like she was a celebrity before" is totally false and gets the order of events wrong. She was a celebrity without any self-promotion and could not avoid it. The whole country was baying for her blood, even though they only knew her as a cartoon. Monica tried to remain private, but privacy was basically impossible, so a few years after the trials she tried to reclaim her image while also paying off her legal debts. After all, she had millions of dollars in legal fees, and media execs were lining up at her door with million dollar contracts. That is hard to ignore. She turned down the really clownish ones like Celebrity Boxing, and instead did a few other gigs that paid enormously. I thought it was pretty hypocritical to hear comedians mocking someone else taking a well-paying gig on a reality show. Are all of you proud of every one of your past credits? You wouldn't host a reality dating show for millions of dollars when all other avenues of income were destroyed?

 

Doubtlessly she found something a little thrilling about the celebrity she was receiving, but is that really worthy of criticism? It seems human to me. Not to mention, she was only about 25 at the time. Once she dipped her toe in those waters and got bullied even harder, she *did* disappear for a long time and tried to reclaim her private life. She's only now re-emerged, ten years later.

 

Anyway. Watch her speech. It is great.

God, I agree with this post so much. So tremendously disappointing to hear the discussion on i4h...

[Optimum Corridor 32]

Great guests, loved that the "Poh-sideon" house video was used as a Crap On Youtube . I'm probably disproportionately excited at the notion of a Case Closed next week!

[Podus 108]

Hey Matty-B, 1970's slang you say? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Diller_(1948_film)

[Bernard_Shakey 3484]

Hey Matty-B, 1970's slang you say? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Diller_(1948_film)

I4H, CBB = Same thing

[Podus 108]

I4H, CBB = Same thing

I figured he would check in here before the cbb board.

[JacobCrites 4977]

I hate that Godsmack is even compared to Alice In Chains. It's like the dumb-fuck rock you hear as background music to UFC fights. It's like some evil genius sent them, Creed, Nickelback, etc to completely wipe out the entire legacy of the awesome early-mid 90s shit. Speaking of Monica...man, late 90s sucked.

You sound like my kinda guy, Brett

[ben mcd 127]

Plenty of secret mistresses have keepsakes.

 

0_o

[Thedge 314]

The Australian accents in this were actually quite good.

 

When they weren't wavering into Irish or South African.