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JulyDiaz

EPISODE 193 — Into the Thunderdome

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Andy Daly, Peter Gwinn, and Amanda Sitko join Matt Besser and witness listeners get into the Case Closed Thunderdome and settle the Sun Kil Moon debate on this week’s improv4humans! We’ll also hear what it would be like if your name became slang for a curse word, if you had a teacher who enjoys watching you cheat, and the consequences of an uncle taking a birthday joke toward his nephew too far. New York: improv4humans with Matt Besser will be LIVE at the Del Close Marathon this Saturday (6/27) at the UCBeast from 1-5pm. Make sure to get the Upright Citizens Brigade television show season 3 now available on DVD, the UCB Comedy Improv Manual, and Dragoon’s new album at dragoongalaxy.bandcamp.com!

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Goddamnit. Save the Thanksgiving level discourse for when Andy Daly's not on.

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I guess this is what happens when long-ass debates about social issues break out on the improv4humans message boards. Its a comedy podcast, folks. Plus no one even knows who Sun Kil Moon is.

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Haven't finished listening to the episode yet, but I just want to bring up something that irked me when listening to old episodes:

 

Matt believes we can't criticize Sun Kil Moon for the misogynistic/asshole stuff that he says because he is just playing into his persona of a grumpy asshole. At the same time, Matt gets supremely pissed off by Tim Tebow for talking about God, Christ, and his religion openly. However, isn't Tebow's persona that of an ultra-religious Christian evangelist? Matt how do you justify your criticism of Tebow when he is just playing into his persona the same way Sun Kil Moon does?

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Nothing I want to hear less on a stacked episode like this than Matt telling people that they shouldn't feel a certain way.

 

Nobody is going to jail over this, theres no persecution against Kozelek. People didn't like what he had to say and reacted accordingly. That we're even debating this is crazy, because this fucking wave of whiney comedians, musicians, etc. reacting against "the new dangerous censorship of the millenial generation" is really just a fear of not being able to say offensive shit without consequences. Also, if people get offended by what you say, isn't that what you fucking wanted? Stop bitching about it! I'm sick of entertainer crybabies, you're worse than the PC audience you shit on.

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Haven't finished listening to the episode yet, but I just want to bring up something that irked me when listening to old episodes:

 

Matt believes we can't criticize Sun Kil Moon for the misogynistic/asshole stuff that he says because he is just playing into his persona of a grumpy asshole. At the same time, Matt gets supremely pissed off by Tim Tebow for talking about God, Christ, and his religion openly. However, isn't Tebow's persona that of an ultra-religious Christian evangelist? Matt how do you justify your criticism of Tebow when he is just playing into his persona the same way Sun Kil Moon does?

 

B-b-but religion bad! Sun Kil Moon is a character, Tebow isn't! uh... equal opportunity offender!

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Honestly, even if Kozelek IS putting up just a persona1 that he plays into to get a rise out of the audience (one that isn't a satire of douchbag folk singer songwriters) what do you expect? A trophy and a hug from every paying audience member while they tell you what a brave thing you did on stage?

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"It's a fuuuckin jokeee!" I love when Andy has a sorta Danny Mahoney type voice it kills me.. Fantastic episode everyone was stellar!

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I know not everybody likes it when there's a musical guest. But surely we can all agree that Taylor Swift killed it this episode!

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For the record Snapes did not know about Kozelek's request to not interview his colleagues:

 

"Instead, I emailed my questions and approached his peers for supporting interviews, only later discovering that Kozelek has previously requested that journalists should not interview his associates for pieces about him."

 

He also was demeaning and condescending in the email exchanges with Snapes:

 

"Universal Themes documents several broken teeth and Kozelek’s attempts to do more exercise, which we discussed in our email exchange. Was he feeling any fitter? 'Yeah. Wait ’til you see me up there [on stage]. You’re gonna be like a cat in heat.' Apropos of nothing, he repeatedly issued instructions to watch for traffic. 'Listen to your elders. I’m 48 and I have wisdom. I’ve seen girls laid out on the street with an ambulance picking them up because they are crossing the street with those stupid headphones on.'

 

And:

 

"'You think you’re the only person who wants to get a face-to-face interview with me? Get in line. I’m the best person you never met and one day, if you ever meet me, you’ll probably want to have my baby.'

That’s Mark Kozelek, via email, which is the way he chooses to conduct his interviews"

 

Source: http://www.theguardi...-bitch-on-stage

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Props to everyone who called in, that takes guts especially to represent an opposing viewpoint. That being said, I was disappointed with the weak arguments put forward by the anti-Sun Kil Moon camp.

 

Like OneNoteSong posted above me, no one argued with souprman and Matt over their portrayal of Snapes' contact with Kozelek as harassing and annoying. In reality, all she did was ask for an in person interview, get politely denied, then follow up with some interview questions via email and interviews of Mark's peers. Somehow in Matt and souprman's world, that qualifies as harassment and justifies anything Mark wants to say about her. In the end, that doesn't even matter because even if she was harassing, it doesn't justify abusing her for being a women.

 

Matt and souprman argued that bitch wasn't a misogynistic term. Credit to illuminatedwax for trying to draw the connection to the word "faggot," I would have gone further to explain why bitch is an offensive term and how it is used to dismiss and denigrate any women who tries to stand up for herself or demand fair treatment. Matt would probably have denied the word's power and connotation, but I think that someone more persuasive than me could make the point.

 

I'm at work so I can't take the time to write out my full thoughts right now, I hope PF Changs or Veegs can fill in.

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I know not everybody likes it when there's a musical guest. But surely we can all agree that Taylor Swift killed it this episode!

 

That opening was great. I love how recently Besser's been using stuff like the song or the movie clips to illustrate what the discussion will be.. I hope he keeps it up.

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don't bother replying. that's my last post on this thread.

 

edit> almost certainly wishful thinking.

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don't bother replying. that's my last post on this thread.

 

edit> almost certainly wishful thinking.

Sorry but I'm going to continue to argue about this, you don't get to end the debate. If you want walk away that is totally fine, but you said that about 4 times in the last thread but continued to come back and call everyone who disagreed with child so I have a feeling you will be back.

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Also souprman, it was great to hear you call in and have my prediction from the last thread confirmed:

 

Very easy to say that from a position of privilege. You might as well have written "I'm straight white guy and words like faggot, nigger, and bitch don't hurt MY feelings, why should they hurt anyone elses?"

 

that's funny stuff kids. you don't know me.

 

Yep, I think we know exactly who you are.

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It's always a gay ol' time whenever TV's Andy Daly is on, am I right bitches!?

 

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Oh God am I going to have to call in now?

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rip (sound of tree trunk being torn from ground) swing. splat. case closed. if you think bitch is an analog for nigger or faggot you are a child with no life experience. i don't care what url you post. amanda sitko, an actual woman with life experience even said they aren't the same. case fucking closed.

 

American Culture is changing right now to focus more on equality, whether it be race or gender (as it absolutely should). And when culture changes, language changes too. Words that you think might have been okay ten-fifteen years ago are not okay now because people are (rightly) being more vocal against their usage. If you think that bitch isn't an analog for those words (or definitely on its way there), then you're an bitter old man with no sense of empathy.

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then you're an bitter old man with no sense of empathy.

 

i feel the shame you should for this. does that count?

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Not that I have a specific horse in the whole Sun Kil Moon saga, but I do feel the need to briefly chime in on the whole bitch/cunt thing. Many of my female friends who've shared their thoughts on this when it's come up in conversation one way or another have said they would be (or have been) more offended by a guy calling them a bitch as an insult than opposed to cunt, mainly because of the gender-specific implications of the word with how it relates to the opposite gender (with cunt just being the equivalent of calling a guy a dick, whereas there's no word a girl could call a guy, that specifically relates to and degrades his gender in relation to being a inferior-submissive to women, which would also insult him).

 

And obviously Amanda Sitko being a woman doesn't speak for all women, with which I'm sure she would agree, and also wasn't implying that anyway when she shared her thoughts. Now, if every English-speaking woman in the US were polled and I had to guess which word the majority were more offended by in terms of a man using it to insult them, hell yeah I'd still put my chips on cunt, but just because a word/insult isn't at the pinnacle of whatever spectrum it's on doesn't make it any more excusable to use, or less offensive to the subject it's being pressed upon.

 

Context context context: If a woman was being really difficult or rude or what-have-you, then I'd suspect calling her a cunt would cut deeper than using bitch. If it were a situation where a man was trying to degrade her sexuality and/or establish his superiority over her as a man (which I guess is where it does tie back into the Sun Kil Moon thing, even if it's a "joke"), then I'd think bitch would elicit a stronger reaction from the female in question.

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Well spoken in that debate Souprman, Kate, IlluminatedWax.

 

"YOU SEE NOW HOW IT'S FUNNY RIGHT?!?

YOU UNDERSTAND THE POSITION I WAS IN,

FOR ME TO NOT DO IT THE SECCOND TIME WOULD BE TO ADMIT THAT IT WASN'T FUNNY THE FIRST TIME!"

 

oh my fuck lol

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