Episode 83: KIKI'S DELIVERY SERVICE

[Cronopio 127]

If there were a separate Canon for perfect, gentle, quiet films for young children, I'd say no. But there is only one Canon for all categories, so I'm gonna say yes - a soft, whispered, gentle yes. My six-year-old, however, told me to vote no, because "it's unfair to Totoro." But what does he know?

[AlexChristianLovendahl 34]

Muthsara nailed my argument. Kiki's Delivery Service, above Brave and along a small handful of movies, is perhaps the best kids movie ever made simply because it cherishes womanhood and girlhood. Take its use of role models, from the bakery owner to the artist. Take its depiction of frustration with romance vs. identity in Kiki, Tombo, and the cats. It's a masterwork. It loves women without demeaning them.

 

And then, it's also directed by Hayao Miyazaki, one of the three to five best animation directors of all time; he's absolutely my favorite. I don't care that this isn't my favorite Miyazaki; my favorite is Devin's loathed The Wind Rises, which is a movie so beautiful because it asks, "How do we pursue passion in the face of human suffering and atrocity?" It is one of my three or four absolute favorite movies.

 

But Kiki's is honestly the one I might want in the canon most myself. It is the most underloved kind of movie, a slice of life movie aimed at girls of color. And not just women, but girls!

 

(This may raise the "anime portrays everyone as white people" argument, but anyone who's watched enough anime knows that when white people show up, they're a foot taller and have crazy Roman/German features; anime depicts Asian people more simply and captures them in sensibility and creator.)

[Threshold 93]

Lovely little film that I'd would have loved to watch as a kid- but they're right- the manufactured climax kind of breaks the film and it's ultimately a bit slight.

soft no

[KickMuncher3 46]

I don't understand how you could say this is "lesser Miyazaki"; that's like saying Casino is "lesser Scorsese".

I think it is. I wouldn't vote Casino into the Canon nor am I voting for Kiki's Delivery Service. I'm fine with a big Canon, but I think we need to be a little more ruthless with our no votes. I think Kiki is decent, but not great or important enough to pass muster. It's a No for me.

[JustinPartridge 5]

I am saying no because it's not The Castle of Cagliostro which DOES have a clear throughline, awesome characters, tension, and one of the greatest car chases ever put to film.

[action52 554]

Film Crit Hulk was very persuasive but this is still a soft "no" for me.

 

This is a movie that has lots of things I like in it. The problem is that none of them are really developed enough. The idea of a witch existing in a relatively modern world is an interesting one, but the movie is very vague about what role they play in society. People seem to know what she is, and no one is surprised by her. They act like maybe it's an old-fashioned thing... but considering how no one even treats Kiki, a witch, as particularly unusual makes it weird that there aren't ANY witches in that town. You'd think people would at least be more suprised if they hadn't seen one in years. And the idea of a 13 year-old living on her own should be crazy in 20th century Europe. We certainly don't see that in any of the other teenagers. But everyone just accepts it as normal. And then she gets there and it seems like this story of her surviving independent in a harsh, new world... except almost immediately she just is given a place to live by some random person. Who kind of seems like a mother figure, but the movie doesn't show them engaging in much more than friendly banter.

 

The fact that this is all taking place in some kind of a vague, dream Europe that doesn't seem to be any particular country, doesn't help. By itself this isn't bad, but taken with everything else it makes it harder to see this as a real world that Kiki's living in.

 

And this movie suffers from the stakes not being high enough. Not that we needed some sort of high-stakes action scene or adventure inserted in as artificial high stakes. Actually, they kind of did do this but at least it was short and fit in fairly naturally with the story. If this were a Pixar movie, they probably would have taken it much further and it would have made the movie a lot worse. They probably would have made the Hindenberg scene into this big, death-defying action sequence where everyone was constantly in mortal peril and Kiki just barely saves the day at the last minute. So at least Miyazaki knew that making this too big would have been jarring and taken away from the movie as a whole.

 

But those aren't the stakes I'm tlaking about. The emotional stakes aren't high enough. We never see Kiki really hurt by anyone, or really opening up and making herself vulnerable to anyone. The movie doesn't make us feel that she's forming close relationships with the people around her, or that she's really hurting deep inside. Is Kiki friends with that boy in the glasses? Does she have a crush on him? And does she really want to be friends with those other girls she sees? Also the woman she stays with, who is sort of motherly... does Kiki see her as a mother? If Kiki opened up to her maybe we would feel more that they had a really strong love between them, but the movie really doesn't give us much. I mean, tdo they even hug? Seems like Kiki would be desperate for someone to just hold her and make her feel secure as she cries at how scared or insecure she feels. Or maybe she feels indebted to her because she got so much help with no real way to repay it, and maybe scared of disappoining her (as well as all the people who had faith in her) if her delivery service fails.

 

There are just so many emotional avenues that you'd think would be issues for Kiki considering her situation, but the movie never pusrsues any of them.

 

That said, though, the part of this movie that work work really great. There are so many little moments that are shot and drawn beautifully, with so much subtlety. The way the movie portrays flying is fantastic--it makes me wish I could fly on a broomstick more than all the Harry Potter movies put together. The conversation with the old grandmother is so pleasant, and it works so well to contrast the snotty, ungrateful grandchild. I really feel Kiki's pain in that moment. The artwork is beautiful, and I find myself really liking all the characters (even that annoying boy with the glasses). The moment in the end where the cat comes back, but doesn't talk, manages to be happy and sad in a way that is beautiful and rings true with the theme of the movie. If the movie had just done a better job of pulling things together, and making me feel emotionally invested, it would be a Slam Dunk.

 

(When I say Slam Dunk I am of course referencing the popular basketball manga/anime, which it's too bad that nobody noticed when Devin said it)

 

So I do like this movie a lot, and I won't mind it getting into the canon even if I don't think it deserves to. Actually, I might even be happier if it does. If nothing else, Film Crit Hulk has made me feel like a stubborn, pedantic fuddy duddy for voting no.

[ajgardner 6]

Soft 'No.'

 

I could think of 3 Miyazki films I would prefer to put into the Canon before Kiki. I am a believer in a big canon, but I also don't feel this has enough to tip it over the edge.

[MaZZM 0]

This is a hard yes for me, Kiki's gets the quite gentle nature of most Miyazaki films even Princess Mononoke has its nice quite moments. That final dirigible sequence is perhaps tonally a bit out of wack since it's so action heavy but it is easily one of my favorite action sequences in film. For me, Kiki's isn't "lesser Miyazaki" it's peak Miyazak, sure it dosen't have the cultural penetration or buisness metrics to back that up but if I was going to show someone one movie to explain Hayao Miyazaki, it's this one.

[Ewwwwno23 0]

Definitely a yes to this movie. And I have to mention I relate to this movie more as an 18 year old man than I did as a child. I hope Hulk comes back another time.

[Impudent Lackwit 15]

Soft yes for me. I was prepared to vote No but Hulk managed to win me over. This was another great episode because it's totally a movie that people can easily be on the fence about and still be "correct" if they vote yes or no. Sure, SPIRITED AWAY is probably a better movie, but even Devin would probably vote that in with minimal debate (and panty jokes). Where is the fun in that?

 

********

 

LONGER THOUGHTS: For what it's worth over the last year I have TENTATIVELY gotten back into manga and anime (American comic books as well) after swearing it all off during my late teens. I know it's easy to rag on this shit because of the sort of aggressive weeaboo weirdos that are VERY vocal online, but I've found it's like most genres out there - 80% is garbage, 10%-15% is good, and 5% is great.

 

I'm very receptive to arguments that a lot of the stuff that seems WEIRD is culturally relative, but man, some of the shit is just WEIRD. I snagged ATTACK ON TITAN and was immediately hooked. It's a GREAT series that I think would be really appealing to anyone who is a fan of general monster/horror/fantasy stuff. Because of picking up AoT, Goodreads and other sites recommended BLACK BUTLER, a story about a young aristocrat and his demon butler. Sure, why not.

 

The WHY NOT arrived in volume 2, which featured the young aristocrat (who is 13.... why always 13?) dressed up as a girl, trussed up with rope, and awaiting Jack the Ripper (no joke) who is presumably going to rape and murder him. I GOT THIS BOOK AT THE LIBRARY! So no, it's not an actual porno title but the imagery and themes are entirely pedophilic.

 

At this point "cultural relativism" arguments went out the window, along with the book.

 

So yeah, sometimes shit is just weird and people who defend ALL anime should be ignored. But I also think people shouldn't ignore the medium just because of a handful of jerks and creeps.

[ZZZ 63]

I think there are strong emotional scenes in this movie, that are played subtly. Maybe I'm reading into it but watching it this time the moment when Kiki is in bed, sick after delivering the pie in the rain. She seems to be sick with sadness. It is immediately after her customer is callous that she becomes ill. It read like she was disappointed to see kind intentions shut down by shallow cruelty. Yes she literally has a fever but she recovers remarkable quickly and I think something deeper is happening in this moment.

[mikejwitz 14]

Hey all! Long time listener, first time voter/poster, and I wanted to chime in on this one because it's a movie that I really connect to as an artist. There’s a strong resonance for me, as well as some interesting context for the film that I’d like to share.

 

To start off, I'm an animator. As a Canadian, I grew up on a steady stream of Western/French media and only saw my first Miyazaki film about 3-4 years ago. I dip into Japanese animation from time to time but I’ve always felt I was missing some key to appreciate it. But damn, do I understand how hard it is to make these films.

 

Quick fact: did you know that Kiki's Delivery Service was Ghibli's first major domestic box office success? Castle in the Sky, and the Grave of the Fireflies/My Neighbor Totoro double-bill are talked about now, but at the time they ended up making enough money to cover their budget and a little more to carry through to the next film*. Kiki’s was the first one to really draw in more significant numbers.

 

*Note - Closest hard numbers I could find was 3.7m budget for Grave/Totoro with 6.3m domestic gross compared to Kiki's 18.5m, (source) but I found out about it first in Jonathan Clement’s Anime: A History (P187), which is well-researched and really informative! This info isn't easy to find.

 

Imagine coming off from something as deeply personal as Grave/Totoro only for it to make a modest splash in ticket sales. How does anyone continue to work in that environment? What kind of film do you choose to make next? Well, if you’re Hayao Miyazaki, then it’s Kiki’s Delivery Service (a project in development for a while, but he turned in his first draft 3 months after Totoro hit theaters!)

 

Before we continue on that thought, let me stress my angle on this film: Flying is an art. It’s no coincidence that Ursula, the artist, plays such an important role in this movie: She's the one who helps Kiki reconsider why she flies and to gain the courage to give it one more go. The movie, she almost feels like a witch, herself. Funny enough, as a reflection of Kiki, she’s the only other character that seems to converse with animals (Jiji and the crows, though we're not privy to any responses (not that we need one)). For Miyazaki, flying and drawing/animating/any form of art is one and the same. Ursula is Kiki and Kiki is Ursula.

 

Now, remember when Kiki's sitting by the beach with Tombo and the car full of kids show up? I read it as less to do with Kiki being embarrassed about her dress than it has to do with her feelings towards the girl from the party (who even mentions the fact to the other children in the same scene). It's the thought that so much work went into crafting and delivering the herring and pumpkin pot pie, something sweet and hearty, that goes completely unappreciated that, I feel, hurts her. Kiki and the older woman worked together, facing challenges (okay, fine, a faulty oven and some rain), to deliver their parcel... only to get a dismissive shrug from someone who doesn't even know how good they have it.

 

Sound familiar?

 

Kiki is a messenger. Her broom is her tool, much like Ursula wields her paintbrush to convey meaning or ideas through her paintings. Like Film Crit Hulk argues, it's a film about what it means to continue to act warmly in a world that may not be kind back. A world that may not always reward you for your efforts. I feel that in this movie, Miyazaki is asking himself what it means to continue to be an animator in an environment that may not appreciate what he's doing.

 

Thankfully, people do recognize these efforts: in moments of charged revelation, but also in many quiet, personal moments. And we continue to do this thing, this art, because no matter the hardships, our reward will always return a thousand-fold in such a myriad of unpredictable and wonderful ways.

 

Yes, Kiki's works at a slower pace than usual, I agree. It's gentle. But on the second viewing I found its manner quietly confident, with the story unfolding in a lovely and organic way. The world and the characters feel real, a testament to Miyazaki’s and Ghibli’s abilities. And it's also an incredible kid’s movie (which, by the way, is still important to have in any canon! It’s also fascinating, from this forum and other sources, how this appeals to kids of both genders). How many films aimed at children have the main antagonistic force be a part of the main character? That’s amazing!

 

Also, isn't it beautiful that Kiki is trying her hardest to make a career out of flying when she's not even that good to begin with? That it's what comes naturally to her, but not so easily? Look at the way she constantly wavers and bumps into things or the way she contrasts with the other witch at the beginning. What about the way that Tombo, who is absolutely thrilled by the idea of flight, wishes that he could be a natural like Kiki? Even if Kiki isn't that great to begin with? But it still inspires Tombo to go out there and build flying machines?! And try to soar?

 

Sure, we may not feel the stakes as much during the climactic dirigible rescue, but that wasn’t the point (although I’m sure any 6 year old would be completely rapt). The thing that I remember the most, the moment that sticks, is when she gets back on the broom. For me, and I believe Miyazaki as well, the thrill never comes from Kiki saving Tombo. It's always about Kiki learning to fly again.

[bleary 333]

To me, this is only a tough vote because of how unlikely it is that Devin would allow another episode on a Miyazaki film. There is no doubt that Miyazaki has a place in the Canon.

 

But to me, this particular film is far less influential than his other work. I disagree with the notion that this is the "most Miyazaki" of his films. My favorite aspects of his films are the stunning artwork and the fantastical world-building. And to me, there's no doubt that Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke are the two films that most epitomize those aspects. I'm less enthusiastic about Totoro than many people, but I'm a big fan of Nausicaa and would have rather had that discussed if we wanted something less than a slam dunk like Spirited Away would be. But Kiki's has less stunning visuals and, to me, less interesting world-building. I don't think there's anything Canon that it's bringing to the table that isn't done better in one of his other films. So I have to vote no.

[ThomasRobertLee 3]

Soft no for me. It's entertaining and perfectly captures that quiet, rural vibe, but it's minor Miyazaki compared to Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away.

[EmmaDayton 7]

I feel like within the canon of great films there are sort of a few pillars of inclusion: undeniably great films, historically/culturally important films, and representative work of great filmmakers or stars.

 

While I don't think Kiki is a great film (I'm with Devin on the frictionless aspect, even as I understand how relatable the content is as Amy argued), and I don't really feel it's all the historically or culturally important as a film, I can't ignore that this is a representative work by a major director. If Miyazaki were removed from this film it wouldn't be in, but with the titans of film there is a need to have a wider breadth than just there best few films.

 

I wouldn't argue for every last Miyazaki film, nor every Spielberg or Wilder or whoever, but I feel like even the "lesser" films of these directors deserves consideration in ways that the work of a random director doesn't. In order to understand film you do need to understand the work of the greats, especially when considering the lasting influence they have on later creators. His work shouldn't be boiled down to which 1 or 2 films will represent him, because Miyazaki is of a standing that film lovers should be familiar with the variety of his work. This is especially true for him when you consider his relative standing worldwide as a filmmaker. Not only is he popular in the US, with American animators singing his praise constantly, but there's a freaking Ghibli museum as a testament to his importance within Japan. He is on the short list of towering figures in the history of animation, in influence trailing only pioneers like Disney and McCay.

 

So I vote yes.

[Pooka 4]

I have beef with the "minor work" argument. This isn't a versus episode between all Miyazaki movies. We're talking about one movie: Kiki's Delivery Service. Its entry into the Canon shouldn't affect the chances of other Miyazaki movies also getting elected.

 

It's the Canon of films; not the Canon of filmographies.

 

I'm a solid yes - just as I would be for Spirited Away.

[Head Spin 112]

I think it's to the forum's credit that I see hardly anyone making a "minor work" argument. I've been reading closely and most people mention that Kiki's isn't their favorite Miyazaki no matter how they voted. I may have missed one, but I don't see anyone saying that it's unworthy just because it isn't another movie. They're saying that they don't think the movie is itself Canon-worthy, and then separately noting that there are other movies that they would vote in instead.

 

I'm only bothering posting because people are usually going out of their way to give props to Miyazaki and how much they like him to balance out their "no" vote. I don't want people mistaking respect for pettiness.

[pomattovich 75]

When KIKI'S DELIVERY SERVICE was announced as the next title up for consideration, I was really disappointed. I grew up watching this film and always loved it, but it wouldn't necessarily crack my top 5 favorite Miyazaki films. I might even put The Wind Rises in front of it (sorry, Devin). It's a delightful film, but while perfect for children, I always thought it was a bit more of the "Saturday Morning Cartoon" variety to be taken too seriously. But since I hadn't seen it in about a decade, I thought I'd give it another watch before voting. Watching it again I was instantly reminded of how much I truly loved this film, and found new mature layers that I hadn't considered in my earlier viewings. This might not be the Miyazaki film I would most want in the Canon, but if it's the only one that may ever be considered, then I have to allow it in. I might still allow it in even if it weren't the only one considered.

[tkilian 3]

Solid yes. Miyazaki is a cultural touchstone and I'd argue that majority of his films are canon-worthy, and that definitely includes Kiki's Delivery Service.

 

Given how both of our hosts have taken guys to task for disparaging "girl media," I was surprised that nobody picked up on the throughline of all of the episodes: Kiki is a girl trying to grow up and make her way in the world. She meets a variety of women who all demonstrate different ways of being and living. Having learned about all these different ways of being a woman, Kiki overcomes her anxiety and self-doubt as she figures out the kind of woman she wants to be. And while I've never been an adolescent girl, I know Kiki's Delivery Service was my fiancee's favorite film as a kid. Aside from the beautiful scenery and the cat, she loved it for being both relatable and aspirational - she spent a lot of time putting together business ventures as a child.

 

On another note, the entire What Is Anime? debate was senseless wheel-spinning. Yes, Studio Ghibli is anime. It's animation that comes from Japan. Japanese animation is both a medium and a genre in much the same way that Western Animation is. Saying that you have a problem with Ghibli films because you don't like other anime or the (genuinely upsetting) behavior of certain anime fans is like saying that Disney or Pixar films are somehow lessened by the existence of The Squidbillies or Brony conventions.

 

As a final aside: absolutely, most anime is garbage. It's a pulp medium, most pulp of any kind is garbage. The majority of anime TV shows are produced cheaply and with limited oversight. Much as with, say, exploitation films, so long as genre expectations are adhered to the creators can largely do as they please. Most of the results are of course disposable junk, but a very small number of people will elevate the medium. Now I don't blame anybody for not wanting to wade through the junk sifting for the diamonds in the rough (I'm not in high school anymore, I don't have the patience for it either), we're watching Reanimator next week for goodness sake - H.P. Lovecraft is practically the poster child for a creator working within a pulpy medium to produce groundbreaking material.

[FrancoAsmaeil 3]

DF racist AF

[AlexChristianLovendahl 34]

Some of the more nuanced responses get me all misty-eyes about Kiki all over again.

[JJ95 21]

I never watched anime before and I have to say I was very impressed by the movie. It's so subtle and so impactful at the same time. I was really moved by it!

[MurphyB.Gumbs 7]

Easily one of the most important films in the formation of my personality/film tastes. I rented this VHS once a week as a kid. I have Kiki tattooed on my fucking arm. Granted, the pacing is a bit meh, and I dig that the slice of life vibe isn't for everyone, but this movie is still one of the best coming of age films out there. 10000% yes

[MurphyB.Gumbs 7]

also, any body else notice that 90% of the people saying that there's "no meat to it" or they can't relate are men

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[jamesxsw 1]

I vote yes.

 

I don't mind that it doesn't have "edge" or that it's gentle. Animation is too often too loud, too obvious, and too plot-driven.

 

I'm surprised that Inside Out didn't get any discussion time during the Ghibli vs. Pixar section, considering how similar the two films are. Both about adolescent girls trying to figure themselves out in a new place. Both find drama in growing up. The difference is that Inside Out makes that growth literal (the journey of Joy and Sadness and the discovery of mixed emotions), while Kiki uses flight as a metaphor.

 

I really like both, and I think they deserve to be in the canon.