Musical Mondays Week 15 The Fantasticks (1995)

[Cameron H. 23786]

Look- I wish I had something clever to write here, but the fact of the matter is, the roguish, transient my father hired to make me look witty on the forums just skipped town with my most prized possession. It's a whole thing.

 

We watched:

 

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

Against my better judgement, I have admit that I really enjoyed this I liked the metaphor of how idealized love needs to be killed off before true love can ever truly flourish. And how we can't appreciate the good things in life until the World has roughed us up a bit (literally) and stolen "our mother's necklace."

 

I would be very interested in seeing this on stage now. I liked this a whole lot, but I can tell there's a better version of this. One not so dwarfed by its own grandeur.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I was charmed with the movie until the second act. I'll let CakeBug or EvRobert or someone else familiar with the show to point out how the stage show does it better, but I just found it to be a bit cruel and creepy.

 

Basically, the moment Matt is lured away by the freaks with their spinning spirals I knew "Ah, this is were the real bringing them together begins." I knew that El Gallo was trying to help and ultimately not trying to hurt them but the seduction of Luisa was a bit... much for my liking. It's I think a combination of his actions and her responses to them. Like him unbuttoning her blouse and having her laugh at the actual beating and robbing of the boy she loved. Then at the end he's doing his best to let her know how men like him will use her and can be cruel and she just kinda smiles and seems still charmed with him. He quotes the kissing book to her and she's just like "Lucky me." Then he basically straight up tells her that he will rob her, sleep with her and leave her and she's like "Well I guess that sounds fine I better pack." Maybe if there was more doubt when she had to hand over the necklace. The movie just kinda lost me at that point.

 

Also Joel Grey and Brad Sullivan were great and I think had more chemistry than Matt and Luisa.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I was charmed with the movie until the second act. I'll let CakeBug or EvRobert or someone else familiar with the show to point out how the stage show does it better, but I just found it to be a bit cruel and creepy.

 

Basically, the moment Matt is lured away by the freaks with their spinning spirals I knew "Ah, this is were the real bringing them begins." I knew that El Gallo was trying to help and ultimately not trying to hurt them but the seduction of Luisa was a bit... much for my liking. It's I think a combination of his actions and her responses to them. Like him unbuttoning her blouse and having her laugh at the actual beating and robbing of the boy she loved. Then at the end he's doing his best to let her know how men like him will use her and can be cruel and she just kinda smiles and seems still charmed with him. He quotes the kissing book to her and she's just like "Lucky me." Then he basically straight up tells her that he will rob her, sleep with her and leave her and she's like "Well I guess that sounds fine I better pack." Maybe if there was more doubt when she had to hand over the necklace. The movie just kinda lost me at that point.

 

Also Joel Grey and Brad Sullivan were great and I think had more chemistry than Matt and Luisa.

 

Here's my hot take on all of that: El Gallo represents everything she's always thought she wanted. He is this sexy rogue that she was hoping Joey Joe could be. Right up until the end, she thinks he's going to give her this amazing, adventure-filled life. Even going so far as to give up her "mother's necklace" (an obvious metaphor for her virginity). Once she does, she discovers the reality of being with that type of swashbuckling ne'er-do-well is a lot different from the fantasy.

 

The thing is, she and Joey have to go through these trials to appreciate what they've had all along. If not, their Love would have been ulitimately doomed.

[Cam Bert 8145]

Here's my hot take on all of that: El Gallo represents everything she's always thought she wanted. He is this sexy rogue that she was hoping Joey Joe could be. Right up until the end, she thinks he's going to give her this amazing, adventure-filled life. Even going so far as to give up her "mother's necklace" (an obvious metaphor for her virginity). Once she does, she discovers the reality of being with that type of swashbuckling ne'er-do-well is a lot different from the fantasy.

 

The thing is, she and Joey have to go through these trials to appreciate what they've had all along. If not, their Love would have been ulitimately doomed.

I agree with that but I think the problem I'm having is the lack of trust we the audience or maybe just me had in El Gallo.From what I learned from CakeBug over on Letterboxd is that the character of El Gallo is the narrator of the play. Having not seen the play but seeing similar-ish ones I'd assume this role of narrator helps build a bond and repartee with the audience. Thus by the time he's doing these things we are aware of his intentions and reasons.

 

While talking about El Gallo when I was looking up about this play earlier I found out that El Gallo was originally played by everyone's favourite Law & Order cop and singing candle Jerry Orbach. If you've only ever heard him sing in Beauty and the Beast you are missing out. Here's him singing Try to Remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEW1F9kZ-UE

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I agree with that but I think the problem I'm having is the lack of trust we the audience or maybe just me had in El Gallo.From what I learned from CakeBug over on Letterboxd is that the character of El Gallo is the narrator of the play. Having not seen the play but seeing similar-ish ones I'd assume this role of narrator helps build a bond and repartee with the audience. Thus by the time he's doing these things we are aware of his intentions and reasons.

 

While talking about El Gallo when I was looking up about this play earlier I found out that El Gallo was originally played by everyone's favourite Law & Order cop and singing candle Jerry Orbach. If you've only ever heard him sing in Beauty and the Beast you are missing out. Here's him singing Try to Remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEW1F9kZ-UE

 

That's interesting. I was fine not trusting Gallo. I just saw him as representing that type of relationship people sometimes get into that is so obviously toxic to people on the outside, yet the people on the inside are completely oblivious.

 

Of course, Gallo is self-aware. He knows he's a bad guy, which is why he's able to do good. If that makes sense...

[Cameron H. 23786]

Question for the Drama Bros: which version of the soundtrack do you recommend?

[Cam Bert 8145]

That's interesting. I was fine not trusting Gallo. I just saw him as representing that type of relationship people sometimes get into that is so obviously toxic to people on the outside, yet the people on the inside are completely oblivious.

 

Of course, Gallo is self-aware. He knows he's a bad guy, which is why he's able to do good. If that makes sense...

It's a bit hard for me to explain but what kinda drew me in at the start was the sort of charm and pureness of this story. These two widowers why fake a feud to drive their kids together because they want them to find love and be happy to me was very charming and sweet. Then when you meet El Gallo he is a bit of a huckster and rogue with the cold reading, upselling and everything. However, his commitment to actually helping them made me see him as a charming rogue. A Han Solo type if you will. Sure he does some cheap tricks and is looking out for himself but he's not a bad guy. He was the defacto antagonist, but no means a "bad guy." That's why his sort of villainous turn I think negated the charm, if you will, I felt up to that point. He went from being a lovable rogue to a kinda creep. Despite him having the best of intentions at the end, it just kinda left me on a sour note.

 

You could also argue that that was the intended reaction to have. For me to be a surrogate for Lucia and be charmed and duped by him only to learn the lesson she learned. Except when it was all said and done I didn't have a New Kid on the Block to fall in love with, just an empty apartment.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Here's my hot take on all of that: El Gallo represents everything she's always thought she wanted. He is this sexy rogue that she was hoping Joey Joe could be. Right up until the end, she thinks he's going to give her this amazing, adventure-filled life. Even going so far as to give up her "mother's necklace" (an obvious metaphor for her virginity). Once she does, she discovers the reality of being with that type of swashbuckling ne'er-do-well is a lot different from the fantasy.

 

The thing is, she and Joey have to go through these trials to appreciate what they've had all along. If not, their Love would have been ulitimately doomed.

So, what you're saying is El Gallo, as the new kid on the block, is exciting to her. She's in sync with his plans until she finally discovers she truly loves Matt. At which point she's like "Backstreet's back! All right!"

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

I could write about this musical forever (Drama Bro #1 checking in) but my kids are buzzing around so this will be a quick first post.

 

I liked this movie way more than I did the last time I saw it. I saw it when it came out in 2000 and was so disappointed with what they did to the story, but with distance and perspective, I think they handled the fantasy element as well as they could have - the carnival is a brand new addition for the movie which works pretty nicely, really.

 

The biggest change, as Cam said (that I said) is that in the musical, El Gallo is the narrator. That's hugely important, and he tells of their birth, their growth, the feud, and their internal wants and needs that not even Matt and Luisa know about. There is also a terrific character called 'The Mute' who moves furniture and sprinkles confetti to denote rain and snow. I love The Mute and miss him a great deal from this movie. (no, Teller doesn't count).

 

I have the 30th anniversary script right here and have uploaded a bunch of images from the beginning of the play to give you a sense of what we're lacking. God this is a beautiful play.

 

 

Here's the original cast, with Jerry Orbach at the top as El Gallo. Top-Hat is the Mute, and Glasses is The Handyman, who was later cut. Then Henry (one of the writers, Tom Jones), Matt, Luisa, Hucklebee, Bellomy, and Mortimer. Harvey Schmidt, the composer, played the piano in the original production.

 

 

More to come.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

It's a bit hard for me to explain but what kinda drew me in at the start was the sort of charm and pureness of this story. These two widowers why fake a feud to drive their kids together because they want them to find love and be happy to me was very charming and sweet. Then when you meet El Gallo he is a bit of a huckster and rogue with the cold reading, upselling and everything. However, his commitment to actually helping them made me see him as a charming rogue. A Han Solo type if you will. Sure he does some cheap tricks and is looking out for himself but he's not a bad guy. He was the defacto antagonist, but no means a "bad guy." That's why his sort of villainous turn I think negated the charm, if you will, I felt up to that point. He went from being a lovable rogue to a kinda creep. Despite him having the best of intentions at the end, it just kinda left me on a sour note.

 

You could also argue that that was the intended reaction to have. For me to be a surrogate for Lucia and be charmed and duped by him only to learn the lesson she learned. Except when it was all said and done I didn't have a New Kid on the Block to fall in love with, just an empty apartment.

 

I think I may be the mirror universe version of you I really didn't like the movie at first. I found it a little to cute and cloying. I see now that that was the whole point, but I was anything but charmed at first.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I agree with that but I think the problem I'm having is the lack of trust we the audience or maybe just me had in El Gallo.From what I learned from CakeBug over on Letterboxd is that the character of El Gallo is the narrator of the play. Having not seen the play but seeing similar-ish ones I'd assume this role of narrator helps build a bond and repartee with the audience. Thus by the time he's doing these things we are aware of his intentions and reasons.

 

While talking about El Gallo when I was looking up about this play earlier I found out that El Gallo was originally played by everyone's favourite Law & Order cop and singing candle Jerry Orbach. If you've only ever heard him sing in Beauty and the Beast you are missing out. Here's him singing Try to Remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEW1F9kZ-UE

Time for me to honestly admit I've never understood Try to Remember. I never heard it in full until the movie and it seemed like El Gallo is singing it to Luisa. Listening to Jerry Orbach now and looking at the lyrics it seems El Gallo is singing it to himself.

 

Also, follow "what"?

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

I think this is worth noting:

 

Here's the opening stage direction from the play, which tells you just how simple the piece is.

 

 

And here's El Gallo's first speech, immediately after he sings 'Try to Remember'.

 

 

So much is set up here, that the movie labours over. The loss of 'Try to Remember' off the top is stunningly reductive. It's supposed to bookend the play, reinforce whimsy, show us that memory is fleeting and youth is blind. Taking it away, and making El Gallo a simple charlatan really takes the air out of the piece.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Time for me to honestly admit I've never understood Try to Remember. I never heard it in full until the movie and it seemed like El Gallo is singing it to Luisa. Listening to Jerry Orbach now and looking at the lyrics it seems El Gallo is singing it to himself.

 

Also, follow "what"?

 

I don't think he's singing it to Luisa because, until she gains "life experience," she wouldn't be able to appreciate it. The weird thing is that in the cast recording this is the second song, but in the movie it's the closing number. So, it's entirely possible the director of the movie interpreted it different from the stage version.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

I don't think he's singing it to Luisa because, until she gains "life experience," she wouldn't be able to appreciate it. The weird thing is that in the cast recording this is the second song, but in the movie it's the closing number. So, it's entirely possible the director of the movie interpreted it different from the stage version.

It's a framing song - it appears at the top (right after the overture) and at the end to close the show. It's not to Luisa, it's to us, as the audience. It sets the scene and brings us into this Fantastick world, and allows us to see things as whimsical and gentle.

 

Also, Cam - I would definitely recommend the original cast recording from the 60's. It's a little simpler but definitely the best. I have the Japanese tour version too but I prefer the original cast recording.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

It's a framing song - it appears at the top (right after the overture) and at the end to close the show. It's not to Luisa, it's to us, as the audience. It sets the scene and brings us into this Fantastick world, and allows us to see things as whimsical and gentle.

 

Also, Cam - I would definitely recommend the original cast recording from the 60's. It's a little simpler but definitely the best. I have the Japanese tour version too but I prefer the original cast recording.

 

Yeah, I was pretty checked out for the first part so I probably missed that. I agree (and I meant to say) it's for us.

 

Btw - I loved how it ended with Winter instead of Spring - fulfilling it's promise that there can't be new life without death first.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Yeah, I was pretty checked out for the first part so I probably missed that. I agree (and I meant to say) it's for us.

 

Btw - I loved how it ended with Winter instead of Spring - fulfilling it's promise that there can't be new life without death first.

And of course, my point earlier was that this song doesn't appear in the movie until the end, so it's not for us at all in the movie. In the movie it's there because it's there. Having at the end alone doesn't really work. So, you weren't so checked out at the beginning that you missed something important!

[Cam Bert 8145]

Also, Cam - I would definitely recommend the original cast recording from the 60's. It's a little simpler but definitely the best. I have the Japanese tour version too but I prefer the original cast recording.

I wonder if I can find this in Japanese now...

 

I thought to remark on this early when Cameron brought up the necklace being her virginity. Was it just me or was their a lot of double entendre or slight jokes about sex? I know the necklace is not a joke but it got me thinking about the line about her climax, El Gallo asking about what they're willing to do on stage, and a few others.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

And of course, my point earlier was that this song doesn't appear in the movie until the end, so it's not for us at all in the movie. In the movie it's there because it's there. Having at the end alone doesn't really work. So, you weren't so checked out at the beginning that you missed something important!

 

I wouldn't say it didn't work, or at least, it worked for a Fantasticks novice like me. I particularly liked the line about "without a hurt the heart is hollow" which is basically the whole thing. Maybe it's just because I believe that sentiment to be true...I also enjoyed the wistfulness of saying, "It's nice to remember our innocence, but don't dwell on your brain's edited version of an idealzed past - especially not to the detriment of the present and future.

 

It's also possible none of that's there and I'm just projecting again.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

And of course, my point earlier was that this song doesn't appear in the movie until the end, so it's not for us at all in the movie. In the movie it's there because it's there. Having at the end alone doesn't really work. So, you weren't so checked out at the beginning that you missed something important!

 

And I just realized I missed that earlier post. We're back on track! Hopefully we'll stop repeating each other's points now

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Cannot stop singing 'Metaphor' today. And my kids were very puzzled when I was singing 'Try to Remember' in the car. My five year old: "daddy, I think you're confused. It's July, not September."

[EvRobert 1684]

Drama Bro #2 checking in here.

 

First of the OG soundtrack is the best. I havent heard the Japenese touring recording. I like the revival cast album because it contaims a little more complete album.

 

I'll write more here in a bit i am at work this morning and am on my phone.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

I think this is worth noting:

 

 

That was crazy to read and it turned me off the musical a little, tbh.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

That was crazy to read and it turned me off the musical a little, tbh.

 

I wasn't able to read that earlier because I was on my phone. I kind of agree with you. I mean, maybe it works on stage, but it feels a little to Saved by the Bell-y for me.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

If you've only ever heard him sing in Beauty and the Beast you are missing out. [/media]

He was also Macheath in The Threepenny Opera when it was an off-broadway production in the late 50s.

 

I think his version of Mack the Knife is the best one.