lylachka 134 Posted February 26, 2014 A lot of the stuff Paul mentioned wasn't in the book, actually is in the book, so I'm a little confused as to where he read that it wasn't. In the book, a lot of the magical realism is done like other magical realism has been done in the past and doesn't feel as weird or hokey as it seems like the movie comes off. Feels like the movie just really butchered the book. Many magical realism books and movies have done very well in mainstream audiences--Life of Pi, Like Water for Chocolate, for example. Sucks Hollywood had to turd on this one. 1 Share this post Link to post
lylachka 134 Posted February 26, 2014 Also--in the book, he got an Irish accent because he was raised working with a bunch of Irish kids. Guess they didn't cover that in the movie? Share this post Link to post
DubipR 485 Posted February 26, 2014 A second opinion from Neil Gaiman? I don't know what to think about anything anymore. http://journal.neilg...s-tale-and.html Holy Shitsnack! I'm so conflicted..... Daly and Mantzoukas are a winning combination no matter the format. Agreed. For a second I was hoping that Don Dimello or Hotdog pop in and start talking about the film... Share this post Link to post
EarBear 460 Posted February 26, 2014 Just to piggyback on a lot of the well articulated and salient points on magic realism from other users like Lyla Rozelle - it sounds like this movie just did a horrible job at handling magic realism. If any of you want to watch a fucking fantastic film with magic realism, adapted from a novel that features magic realism, I say 'Like Water for Chocolate' any day. Also great as it was directed by Alfonso Arau, who most of us know as the actor that played El Guapo in 'Three Amigos'. Magic realism is one of those exceedingly delicate things that needs special handling. It can go way over the top very easily. Sounds like the whole creation / insertion / execution of the Will Smith Lucifer is a prime example of that. I have not seen this flick, and don't really plan to, but I did watch all the press clips for it at work. Basing my opinion on those presented in this podcast, as well as the 30 or so minutes of the film I watched in clip form, here's my take. There is a moment in the film where Russell Crowe is obsessing about the killing of Colin Farrell. He calls a lackey into his dark, dusty office to order him to find Farrell. The lackey is played by Kevin Durand (LOST). Russell Crowe tells Durand to find and kill Peter Lake, but calls Durand by the wrong character name. Durand pauses, unsure of how to proceed, how to address this mistake. The name Crowe used was Durand's grandfather, played by Kevin Corrigan, who had died many, many years ago (was in fact killed by Crowe, if memory serves). Durand corrects him. Here's the thing about this scene and how is immediately turned me off from watching this film when I saw it as a clip a few weeks back. Magic realism in literature is great because all of the characters understand it is part of their universe. It gets touchy in cinema because it takes a lot of communication and commitment on the part of the actors and director to imbue the story with that foundation. So this clip Durand is working for the ageless demon that killed his grandfather. Great, I'm on board. This horrific demon needs a man killed, Durand wants to satisfy him. The demon calls him by his grandfather's name, makes sense, he's ageless, he's got a lot of evil on his mind. My issue is, why would Durand correct him? This is a fucking ageless demon. Durand desperately wants to please him so he doesn't meet the same hideous fate as his grandfather. Would he really take a time out to call him on something like that? It's possible, sure. But to me it seemed a moment that put a lack of communication concerning magic realism between director and actor on display. I like Durand in almost all things I see him in, and he made an interesting choice to assert a bit of power with that pause and question. But story wise it didn't really gel. It would, at best, be a more nebbishy "That was my grandfather", followed by some blustering by Crowe, because Durand would understand that this is a fucking AGELESS DEMON THAT KILLED HIS GRANDFATHER BEFORE HE WAS BORN. If you're in that world, you understand and accept the reality of the magic. When actors aren't constantly affirming the reality of this magic world and moving the story forward, then the magic becomes a distraction, and you as a viewer are unable to appreciate any of the story or symbolism. (Though is sounds like they did a shitty job at translating the symbolism as well). 4 Share this post Link to post
kobthatreal 5896 Posted February 27, 2014 I can't be the only one who thought Peter Lake slit that dudes throat just before he found the horse. He has the knife to his neck and quickly pulls his hand and the guy fell down holding his throat and doesn't get up. Maybe I just wanted that to happen. "He's got de got damn horse." will forever be in my head whenever I see anyone on a horse. Share this post Link to post
WEdidITagain 458 Posted February 27, 2014 "Was his dick too warm?..." Man, that is classic. This was a great episode, guys. Well done. That said, I did miss having a female voice represented. Since June is pregnant, I'm assuming she'll be missing more than a few episodes in the near future. Here's my list of possible female guest hosts who I'd love to hear on the show while June is attending to more important matters: Kulap Vilaysack Jessica St. Clair Lennon Parham April Richardson Alie Ward and/or Georgia Hardstark Barbara Gray, Brandie Posey and/or Tess Barker Emily V. Gordon Cameron Esposito Rhea Butcher Elizabeth Laime Mostly just awesome ladies from other podcasts, but I know they'd all make fantastic contributions. I'd love to see April on this, she'd be great! This is a really great list of just funny ladies in podcasts right now, job well done. Share this post Link to post
Quasar Sniffer 4174 Posted February 27, 2014 My constructive input on this intelligent Internet conversation... Magical realism is like that old saying about pornography: I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it. Also, it gives me boners when done well. 2 Share this post Link to post
Shannon 2953 Posted February 27, 2014 A lot of the stuff Paul mentioned wasn't in the book, actually is in the book, so I'm a little confused as to where he read that it wasn't. In the book, a lot of the magical realism is done like other magical realism has been done in the past and doesn't feel as weird or hokey as it seems like the movie comes off. Feels like the movie just really butchered the book. Many magical realism books and movies have done very well in mainstream audiences--Life of Pi, Like Water for Chocolate, for example. Sucks Hollywood had to turd on this one. YOU HAVE TO TELL US MORE ABOUT THE BOOK!! The only person I know who read it is my mom and she's terrible at explaining things. 3 Share this post Link to post
BadgerNoonan 12 Posted February 27, 2014 I've read the book and that just makes the movie sound that much worse. Peter getting left in the boat is in the book, it's supposed to be like Moses. Peter in general is supposed to be like Jesus. In fact , the most surprising part of this HDTGM was when everyone acted like it was completely telegraphed that Peter would kill Pearly. Maybe it was in the movie but - spoiler alert - in the book, Pearly kills Peter. Peter has to let himself be killed and in doing so, conquers death (see, Jesus-y). Peter winning really really ruins the whole point. Also, the 300 or so pages that were cut out contained an entire other plot including a character every bit as important as Peter (Hardesty Maratta) and another antagonist named Jackson Meade, without whom nothing makes sense. That plot dovetails with Peter's and the added stakes really are necessary for it not to be silly. If you're wondering why Peter didn't get with Virginia Gamely, it's probably because in the book she's married to Hardesty. Lucifer is not in the book. The antagonists are clearly immortal fallen angel types, but do not look like monsters. Also, the Horse's name is Athansor. I could go on for thousands of words but I'll stop. The book is legitimately great. Oh, and Jason's intuition is correct that Peter is a genius with machines. 6 Share this post Link to post
BadgerNoonan 12 Posted February 27, 2014 Oh, in the book Peter does not just wander around Manhattan for a hundred years. There's a rip in time off the cost known as the Cloud Wall which occasionally spits out ancient artifacts and occasionally consumes people. It's part of the "everyone just knows and accepts it" magical realism of the book. At the end of the first section Peter and the horse escape Pearly by jumping into the cloud wall. It transports both of them into the present. In the present people have forgotten about the cloud wall over time, so no one can tell exactly how Peter got there, who he is, etc. he doesn't live for 100 years without aging. That decision in the movie sounds insane. 4 Share this post Link to post
BadgerNoonan 12 Posted February 27, 2014 The New York Times review of Winter's Tale, the book, from 1983 probably does a better job at synopsis than I will.. http://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/04/books/helprin-tale.html "THERE'S far more that I would wish to say about the book - so much more that I find myself nervous, to a degree I don't recall in my past as a reviewer, about failing the work, inadequately displaying its brilliance. The canniness of the balancing of fantasy and realism, the capacity of these Dickensian presences to bring to mind, subtly, contemporaries and near-contemporaries from Rupert Murdoch to Howard Hughes to Thomas Pynchon, the excitement scholars will find in interpreting Mr. Helprin's extension of the line of American imaginers who have grappled for longer than a century with the meanings of technology. . . . Not for some time have I read a work as funny, thoughtful, passionate or large-souled. Rightly used, it could inspire as well as comfort us. ''Winter's Tale'' is a great gift at an hour of great need." 1 Share this post Link to post
IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837 Posted February 27, 2014 Just starting the new episode, and Jason says that he and Andy had never done a podcast together but I know for sure Jason was on the CBB episode with the debut of Andy's Cowboy Poet Laureate. Daly and Mantzoukas are a winning combination no matter the format. ME TOO! I also loved how Jason and Andy joked that this is the FIRST time they are together in a podcast... And for those who don't know together they have done a lot of Comedy Bang Bang Episodes... Episode number 200 is one of my personal favorites... Also, it's on YouTube! Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cx7gJL7MVs Share this post Link to post
EarBear 460 Posted February 27, 2014 Also, the 300 or so pages that were cut out contained an entire other plot including a character every bit as important as Peter (Hardesty Maratta) and another antagonist named Jackson Meade, without whom nothing makes sense. That plot dovetails with Peter's and the added stakes really are necessary for it not to be silly. If you're wondering why Peter didn't get with Virginia Gamely, it's probably because in the book she's married to Hardesty. Oh, in the book Peter does not just wander around Manhattan for a hundred years. There's a rip in time off the cost known as the Cloud Wall which occasionally spits out ancient artifacts and occasionally consumes people. It's part of the "everyone just knows and accepts it" magical realism of the book. At the end of the first section Peter and the horse escape Pearly by jumping into the cloud wall. It transports both of them into the present. In the present people have forgotten about the cloud wall over time, so no one can tell exactly how Peter got there, who he is, etc. he doesn't live for 100 years without aging. That decision in the movie sounds insane. This is fucking fascinating. How did they make the decision to cut these details out entirely? And just say he'd been wandering around Manhattan for a fucking century? That is god damn outrageous. Thanks a lot for your insight, BadgerNoonan! Your contribution has further illustrated that this movie is a fucking shitheap garbage adaptation of a likely rightfully beloved novel. The book actually sounds intriguing from what you write, maybe I'll pick up a copy. 3 Share this post Link to post
BadgerNoonan 12 Posted February 27, 2014 I'm happy to be of service. The movie looked like a disaster from the start and really sounds like it does a huge disservice to the book, which made me irrationally angry. 1 Share this post Link to post
SlidePocket 707 Posted February 27, 2014 I would like to mention that the old woman who plays the grown up sister of Jessica Brown Findlay's character is Eva Marie Saint. She won an Oscar for her role opposite Marlon Brando in On the Waterfront, while younger audiences may notice her as Martha Kent in Superman Returns. 1 Share this post Link to post
OzBecause 1 Posted February 27, 2014 I am an ass for paying as much attention to this movie as the fellas! I did pick up something they got wrong about the horse tho. One of the guys mentioned that the horse is actually a "dog" when in the movie, I beilive russle crowe actually say "dove." Hard to tell with that shitty accent. I think there was even a shot of the horse transforming into a bird. Not a game changer, this movie is still trash. The horse being a dog lol, much more funny that way 1 Share this post Link to post
seanotron 2307 Posted February 27, 2014 I would like to mention that the old woman who plays the grown up sister of Jessica Brown Findlay's character is Eva Marie Saint. She won an Oscar for her role opposite Marlon Brando in On the Waterfront, while younger audiences may notice her as Martha Kent in Superman Returns. Also North by Northwest! 2 Share this post Link to post
katexmachina 23 Posted February 28, 2014 I'll co-sign all these suggestions! Also Natasha Leggero, Eliza Skinner and Lauren Lapkus! "Was his dick too warm?..." Man, that is classic. This was a great episode, guys. Well done. That said, I did miss having a female voice represented. Since June is pregnant, I'm assuming she'll be missing more than a few episodes in the near future. Here's my list of possible female guest hosts who I'd love to hear on the show while June is attending to more important matters: Kulap Vilaysack Jessica St. Clair Lennon Parham April Richardson Alie Ward and/or Georgia Hardstark Barbara Gray, Brandie Posey and/or Tess Barker Emily V. Gordon Cameron Esposito Rhea Butcher Elizabeth Laime Mostly just awesome ladies from other podcasts, but I know they'd all make fantastic contributions. 1 Share this post Link to post
The Burning Gentleman 67 Posted February 28, 2014 And a new record for How Did This Get Made? confusion has been set. I had no idea that this movie would lead to so much bafflement that was so delightful to listen to. I did miss June, but at least there were a couple "June moments" to be heard. Share this post Link to post
KevinRiegle 17 Posted February 28, 2014 ME TOO! I also loved how Jason and Andy joked that this is the FIRST time they are together in a podcast... And for those who don't know together they have done a lot of Comedy Bang Bang Episodes... Episode number 200 is one of my personal favorites... Also, it's on YouTube! Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cx7gJL7MVs All of the Mantzoukas/Daly episodes are the absolute best CBBs. I especially love the one with Chip Gardner's first appearance (http://www.earwolf.c...r-of-hollywood/). Maybe the most brilliant, completely natural 80 minutes of improv I've ever heard. Andy Daly has an insane talent for making shit really dark. This was a great episode, although I do wish we had gotten June's insight. She was really sorely missed by me. Paul and Jason's June moments worked pretty well to soothe me. Just the way the guys were talking about this reminds me of when people try to explain watching reliving the traumatic experience of having been exposed to ZARDOZ Holy shit how has this not been done yet 1 Share this post Link to post
KevinRiegle 17 Posted February 28, 2014 Before successfully seeing this tonight, I made an attempt last night, but ended up missing the latest showing. So I saw Ride Along instead. I'd be curious to know how much Mantzoukas made it into the final product. It sounds like he was involved somewhere in the middle of the process, so probably not much. It definitely wasn't terrible, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did some good for it. Share this post Link to post
dlo burns 129 Posted February 28, 2014 [ZARDOZ] Holy shit how has this not been done yet You could do multiple episodes around single scenes. That movie is too dense in it's craziness. Share this post Link to post
PhillipMedoc 648 Posted February 28, 2014 Delurking to just say that occasionally forgetting I've installed the Chrome "cloud-to-butt" extension amuses me to no end. Also +1 on the Zouks/Daly "we've never done a podcast together" bit; every CBB listener was probably trembling with excitement when they saw the guest for this week's HDTGM episode. One of the greatest moments in Earwolf history is Andy Daly's cavalcade of suicide on CBB #148: "He was my best friend... well, some of his characters were." 5 Share this post Link to post
EarBear 460 Posted February 28, 2014 One of the greatest moments in Earwolf history is Andy Daly's cavalcade of suicide on CBB #148: Strongly agree. Share this post Link to post
RoyCorder 48 Posted February 28, 2014 I really don't want to go to a theater to see this... but I also don't want to wait to listen to the episode... hmmmmmmmmm. what to do? Share this post Link to post
