Episode 78: BOYZ N THE HOOD

[Threshold 93]

That quote from Easy-E really is true.

That scene with L.Fishburne talking in front of the billboard is laughable, but sad, since I do agree with the statements he is saying.

 

A dodgy film with decent intentions.

No for me.

[Susan* 135]

This is a yes for me.

 

This is was an interesting episode for me. When the movie was released, I was excited to see it. It got raves from all the critics I paid attention to, and I think I was really hoping for a new Spike Lee, and glad to see some actors I hadn't seen before. But it wasn't Do the Right Thing. I didn't come away thinking it was a great movie. I thought the best-of-the-year talk was too much hype. But I definitely overlooked its flaws. I think part of it was my personal reaction to the nonsense in the media at the time. Local TV played it up like you were going to get gunned down if you ventured out to the mall to see Boyz. We maybe had one little incident but it was played up by local TV. The coverage seemed so racist to me, and it brought out the stupid in even some of my otherwise smart classmates. It was an event movie in my community, and one of the few movies in my adult lifetime that had an impact like that.

 

Man, I was cheering for Singleton. But in the next decade, I bought tickets to another few of Singleton's movies and started to reconsider whether I'd given Boyz a pass it didn't deserve. I was just so hungry to see movies by diverse filmmakers using diverse casts. I paid to see a lot of meh movies as a result. I agree that Boyz is not a good movie. I agree with much of what Devin said and that's why it didn't age well. But man, it's a landmark movie. Its place in history cannot be denied. It's Canon by my definition.

 

(BTW, I keep thinking about whether Brokeback Mountain had the impact Devin and Amy credited to it. I'm not going to deny the experience of other people in their communities. But I live in a gay mecca and it wasn't impactful here. I also thought it was boring. But I generally don't like straight drama or love stories. Now Longtime Companion, that was an impactful movie in its day.)

[BenjaminCornelius-Bates 16]

Mine is a soft no. I don't find the cinematography or lighting as distractingly bad as Devin seems to think, but I agree that it isn't great. I wish this had been a versus episode - Menace II Society is such a great and superior movie. I saw both of these films in the early 90s and liked them both with a general preference for Menace II Society.

 

On revisiting both, my biggest complaint to Boyz n the Hood, aside from the aforementioned directing issues, is that the score is terrible. TERRIBLE. Boo that soulful 80s sax. The movie also could benefit from some serious editing. It is probably a half hour too long. That all being said, Amy does an admirable job of defending the movie. I wish Devin had used the word mediocre instead of bad, that is a more apt description of the movie. And go watch Menace II Society; it is a better film.

[JeffreyMcDonald 65]

I watched this movie for the first time on Sunday. For all the accolades it had received over the years, I was shocked at how incompetent I thought it was. I thought, "Am I missing something?" and was relieved when just 4 minutes into this episode that Devin expressed his distaste for the film. I honestly felt like I was watching something shot as an after-school special rather than as an engaging drama (haha, glad to hear that Eazy-E had the same reaction). [note: the only thing Netflix had available to rent was pan&scan version, so I can’t fault the filmmaker for that aspect of the experience.]

 

On top of that, I have never appreciated Cuba Gooding Jr. as an actor. In every performance he always seems like he’s two words away from breaking down in tears. He always seems like he’s (cue Jon Lovitz) “act-ing” rather than acting. Once again, his performance took me out of a picture; the only mild plus being that his character is supposed to be a little removed from the other characters, so at least his performance added a little bit to that feeling of separation.

 

Ugh, this is a tough one. While I did not enjoy the film at all, I do think that historical importance is a factor to be considered for what goes into The Canon. Ouff, if this one is a “yes”, it will be only by a hair. Amy did make some good points, but similar to Devin, I had so much trouble getting past the poor film-making. G'ah...no...yes...no...yes. I'm going "no", mostly because I have left other important films off the Canon because of what I thought was poor film making. That, in itself, won't always be a barrier to The Canon for me, but if the film making is bad; then the story, plot, script, acting, etc., really have to make up for the other shortcomings. In this case, it just didn't work for me. (but the podcast has now made me really curious to see "Menace II Society")

 

[but I disagree with Devin on "Dope". I thought it was a fun film; but that might be because I watched it on an airplane. On the Comedy Film Nerds podcast they argue there should be a "movie rating" and a "movie seen on an airplane rating".]

[sjmills 0]

God no.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

No mention of the sea change in hip hop that Boyz presaged? This movie came out a year before Dr. Dre released The Chronic and looks like it came from a different era (e.g. the nineties) when compared to New Jack City, which came out the same year.

[RalphVarlese 6]

Yes, for historical reasons. While I did enjoy the movie, there are problems. I was actually Yes all around, until hearing Devin rip into it and John Singleton. I strongly agree with him, this time.

[PatrickGaertner 17]

This is a tough one for me. I really agree with Devin that it's not a particularily well made film, but I do kind of give it a pass for being such an early film in Singleton's career. This thing that really works for me though, and what pushed me over to a yes, is the historical importance. Hell, the first time I saw this movie was in a criminology class in college, where my professor, a person who researches and has written papers about crime and gangs, said that this was the best representation of life in the ghetto, and the struggle of avoiding gangs when you live in this world. It's important. I don't know if I particularily like the movie from a cinematic standpoint, but I think it's Canon worthy.

[EricScott 12]

I don't get Devin's hatred of this movie--it felt like he had an axe to grind with Amy about MARATHON MAN and SEVEN and that he had made up his mind that he was going to trash BOYZ N' THE HOOD because of it. That's not good film criticism dude...

 

On the other hand, I have to admit that Amy's rationalizations about the thing she likes most in BOYZ N' THE HOOD bordered on being patronizing. (Would she have been so passionate about this movie if it wasn't a "message picture" and one of the most important films made by an African-American in film history?)

 

But (though no one wants to admit it) the message and the origin of the messenger DOES sometimes matter when you're talking about any canon. I think BOYZ N' THE HOOD is a terrific movie, one that still moves me 25 years later. Is it stylish? Not particularly. Has Singleton done anything worthwhile since? I would argue for BABY BOY, but that's about it. But Devin totally underrated the acting in the movie (which is mostly great), the story choices feel right and truthful to me and BOYZ N' THE HOOD remains a benchmark movie that other similarly themed films are constantly compared to. That means something. Yes for The Canon!

 

PS If you had done a "versus" edition pitting this against MENACE 2 SOCIETY, I would have voted for MENACE.

[Marsellus_H 118]

I'm somwhere in between Amy and Devin on this one. For one, I can see some historical importance to this film, and I enjoyed some stuff while watching it. On the other hand, I can't help but think that there were other films that made the same points about this film's subject more convincingly and better crafted. I enjoyed the prologue and the ending, as well as the mentioned performances. The stuff in between didn't always work for me that well. It's funny, but just like Devin I had to think about porn as well, mainly because of that saxophone score that just seems to ramble on without having much intention. If we didn't include The Hurt Locker which can be read in a similar vein as an ok film about an important subject comming out at the right time, I think it'd we only consequential to not include Boyz N' The Hood neither. A soft no from me.

[action52 554]

The last few episodes had left me sympathizing with Devin and down on Amy for being so stubborn. But this week it's like Devin was just determined to undermine all that goodwill I had.

 

His criticisms were valid but he was WAY overly harsh. The film is rough and unpolished but it has a really good message and brings to life a world that mainstream movies just didn't cover. It's not a great movie but it's not nearly as terrible as Devin makes it out to be. Devin came out sounding downright petty. It's hard not to see this as him somehow getting "back" at Amy for the last episode, especially because he kept bringing it up.

 

Soft yes, based mostly on cultural and cinematic influence. This was THE movie that brought "the hood" to the mainstream and opened the door for all those movies in the 90s, like Menace II Society to Friday and even up to Training Day.

[LahiruDayananda 0]

Agree with Devin that this is a shoddily made film, but there's something about it that elevates it and makes it truly resonant. I'm going with Amy, it should be in.

[NRoberson86 78]

So I've been playing a lot of Doom lately since the release of the new game. Bear with me here. Doom is the game that defined and popularized the FPS genre of video games. Was it the first? No. That was Wolfenstein 3D. However, most admit that Doom is the better made game, with a lot better delivery, polish, innovation, and overall immersion.

 

This film is the Wolfenstein 3D of its kind. Menace II Society did this so much better only two years later.

 

I agree that Devin was too heavy-handed, but also I am routinely baffled by Amy's opinions.

[DLizzle 2]

Nice of Devin to return the favor from the Se7en episode and rail endlessly on sticking points that don't end up mattering. You can criticize "bad" camerawork, "bad" acting, "bad" dialogue, etc. but if it works, it works. It works in Boyz 'n the Hood. I understand it's difficult to have an hour long discussion about something that "just works" (I think Amy did a commendable job here), but I just don't believe that Devin sat cross-armed and unaffected by this movie; he's not a good enough actor.

 

In addition, I am having trouble putting this point delicately, but I can imagine (or perhaps there has been a Canon episode one could reference) Devin having a very different reaction to a movie with similar and/or different-but-as-numerous problems to Boyz 'n the Hood if it was say, a dramatic slice of life tale of Italians in NYC.

[davhahn 4]

No, but not an all caps "NO" with an exclamation point. I liked this movie a little bit when I was 14 so nostalgia puts it right in the middle of my OK category.

 

The cultural impact argument has been weighing on me recently. I get that it's relevant and that other better films stand on its trailblazing shoulders, but I find that to be more of a function of good PR than anything else. Ice Cube was huge and just having him in he movie at the time garnered some major press. Universal was pushing it like crazy. It was all over MTV. It was a touchstone movie for everyone in my high school for sure. Does that make it continually significant for all time? I'm not sure.

 

Cultural impact is somewhat important, but it can be manipulated to some degree, so all we can really fall back on is the text itself. And the movie is not strong. It looks and feels like a 90s Fox TV melodrama. I'm not as scorched earth as Devin though. Seems to have been a little overly harsh, but on the main points I agree.

 

I think Devin and Amy need to stop calling back to arguments each other made on earlier episodes. When it comes down to it, if either of them like or hate a movie on a sort of visceral level, they will defend that position with whatever they have available (script, production design, cinematography, amatuerism, etc). There is little consistency and it starts to make all of the conversations seem like personal gotcha takedowns rather than examinations of the film in question.

[Stein-ErikRutledal 3]

When I saw Devin tweeting about watching Both the other week I suspected it was in preparation for an episode and I thought to myself "that's a definite yes". Since then I watched a movie that shifted my mind; Don't Be A Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood. The ease at which Don't Be A Menace spoofs Boyz by playing scenes straight from the film and just having a character shout "message" speaks to how blatant the film is.

 

Another thing that shifted my opinion was Devin's argument about the speeches in the film and how they all feel fake. Take He Got Game for example, it has a really in your face speech scene but it presents it so theatrically that it sells it. Here it just feels like people not talking like people.

 

While Furious Styles is one of my favourite characters of all time this is a soft no for me.

[eggogallego 1]

The only difficult thing about voting this week was discounting Amy's needless defense against Devin's irrational onslaught. (fart)

[chaplinatemyshoe 46]

No. This one feels like a blown opportunity for a Menace II Society vs. Boyz in the Hood episode (or if I'm really being honest a New Jack City vs King of New York showdown).

 

But yeah, the movie's way too melodramatic and on the nose for my tastes. And while I remember the movie having a strong initial impact on teenager me, subsequent viewings have exposed its flaws to the point of borderline parody.

[JJ95 21]

Had to register to vote on this. I was honestly baffled by the hate for this film. It's not perfect, but it's a really good and important movie...

[AashishSreedharan 0]

I don't think this movie deserved the hate it got form Devin, but it definitely wasn't as good as Amy said it was. That being said it's only a soft no for me. And by a weird coincidence I happened to watch Dope the day after watching this movie, and I thought Dope did what this movie tried to do better, which is in large part my reason for voting no on this movie.

[PalomaBennett 0]

I don't think Boyz N The Hood is a terrible movie, but not great enough to be in the canon. If we want to put films dealing with racial issues into the canon, then there are better ones to put in.

[action52 554]

No. This one feels like a blown opportunity for a Menace II Society vs. Boyz in the Hood episode

 

That would have been a really good one.

[DaveGulick 0]

There is no doubt this was an important movie with big bright spots but it's importance is only in the fact that it was the first black youths growing up in the hood movie. Just because it's first doesn't mean it belongs in the Canon.

 

I agree mostly with Devin although there are some parts he didn't mention that I didn't like. The way they bring Ricky's body back to the house seems illogical and completely traumatized Ricky's mother. I also found the ending very lazy in how Singleton did a text ending to say Ice Cube's character died.

[TonyBlanco 8]

There is no doubt this was an important movie with big bright spots but it's importance is only in the fact that it was the first black youths growing up in the hood movie.

 

Cooley High?

[RobertBoberts 62]

I also loved this movie as a teenager but recent viewings have left me wondering why I liked it. Like a previous poster mentioned, I Cant help but think of Don't Be a Menace. It's spot-on in parodying this. I forgot at times thinking that a scene from that movie was about to come up next. I also voted no.