Episode 141.5 - Minisode 141.5

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

For Batman, I absolutely do not under any circumstances recommend "The Killing Joke."

 

 

I agree. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I simply do not get the appeal of Alan Moore. He seems to obsess over both sex, and especially, sexual abuse. I haven't read a lot of his stuff, but the stuff I have read I feel like, "Hey, I'm on page thirteen and no one's been raped yet! [turns page] Oh...never mind."

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

it's a boy!!! ... it's a boy it's a boy!!!!! .... congrats paul and june ... the family just got one bigger

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Congrats, June and Paul!

 

I expect mine will be here in the next couple of weeks. Once he's born, we should really set up a play date. Might I suggest...

 

 

We got to get 'em watching these shitty movies while they're young.

[RyanSz 3140]

For your Godson, I can not recommend The Immortal Iron Fist and Hawkeye enough, both by Matt Fraction and David Aja. Both are pretty much self contained stories (The complete Iron Fist comes in two volumes) that don't require the reader to be familiar with years of continuity.

 

Hawkeye is great up until Jeff Lemire takes over for volume 5 and 6, which are kinda ridiculous with a bouncing between current time and future, and for some reason Lemire can't really bring the great emotion that Fraction could into Hawkeye, which is odd as he can usually create great emotional connections with characters, Sweet Tooth being the prime example.

 

Oh recommendations time! Love it!

 

Just to get into the actual buying and reading of comics/graphic novels without the 70+ years of overwhelming history I recommend Saga, The Wicked + The Divine, and Sex Criminals. All seriously amazing stories by authors and artists who have written for DC and Marvel. And then on the Marvel side, because I kept up with buying those stories, I also can not recommend Hawkeye enough, but also Black Widow, Captain Marvel, and Ms. Marvel. All have recognizable characters and are amazing to get into without having read anything before.

 

The Wicked + The Divine and Sex Criminals are two of my favorite titles from Image, another great one is Southern Bastards by Jason Aaron, which is a gritty southern version of Breaking Bad mixed with Walking Tall and has maybe one of the most shocking conclusions of an opening volume that I've ever read. Some other series that I would recommend No Mercy by Alex de Campi concerning a bus of kids on a school trip in South America that goes off a cliff and how the various students interact with their situations that the know about and the ones being hidden from them. Nailbiter by Joshua Williamson is a great mix of Twin Peaks and Silence of the Lambs about a town that has had sixteen serial killers born there, The Woods by James Tynion is a sci-fi fantasy story about a school that gets teleported to a strange planet, and Unfollow by Rob Williams is a type of Battle Royale set in a social media environment.

 

As for print books I cannot recommend John Niven highly enough after reading his books Kill Your Friends and The Amateurs, which have a dark sense of humor mixed with grittiness and pop culture, kind of a Scottish Brett Easton Ellis or Chuck Palahnuik. They made a great movie based on Kill Your Friends starring Nicholas Hoult which is currently free on Amazon Prime.

[klemjohansen 748]

 

The elevators in Drax's building only work once every night- sometimes twice, but they really need a lot of positive reinforcement to pull it off.

[RyanSz 3140]

 

The elevators in Drax's building only work once every night- sometimes twice, but they really need a lot of positive reinforcement to pull it off.

Am I the only one to notice the center of that grill is a giant dong?

[klemjohansen 748]

/!\ Spoiler Alert /!\

They fight with their Schwartz beams at the end.

 

"No one refuses the Phantom." is a creepy thing for a guy to say to a woman. The Phantom is not woke, you guys.

[EllenM 943]

/!\ Spoiler Alert /!\

They fight with their Schwartz beams at the end.

 

"No one refuses the Phantom." is a creepy thing for a guy to say to a woman. The Phantom is not woke, you guys.

Is he a bae though?

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Suicide Squad spoilers and thoughts for anyone that wants them

 

 

My main issue is with pacing, character development, and editing. The first two scenes feel like they belonged later in the movie, the slo-mo is painfully slow at times, characters you expect to get a proper introduction because of how they were marketed don't, and they start showing you maybe 5 different ways the movie could go before it settles. The parts that I wanted them to develop slowly and properly were sped up and brushed aside, while the parts that you really didn't need were dragged out for-fucking-ever. Can a movie feel like it goes way too fast and take forever at the same time?

 

Jared's Joker wasn't anything spectacular. It wasn't that much different than Nicholson's Joker in my opinion. Just dressed like he raided Hot Topic before going to the club. I'm convinced that if Jared Leto wasn't a grade A asshole then some might have even really praised his performance. I didn't like the relationship with him and Harley but I suspected I wouldn't. However, what I didn't suspect was that they were going to romanticize them even more. The obsession she has with him seems to actually be his obsession with her? While she's in prison he goes crazy not knowing what to do with himself? Which on one hand I'm glad they made some equality but on the other hand I'm now even more afraid people will excuse his torture of her because he's shown to actually love and care for her. But their relationship is still wildly unhealthy and it really bothers me. ETA: On reflection his Joker really isn't the Joker at all...

 

The actors in the squad commanded the screen. I loved Margot as Harley, like seriously loved her. The acting was honestly really great. Not one person phoned it in. I just wish they had been able to develop them more.

 

Overall I think the critics were too harsh on it. I almost feel like it was just kinda boring cause, like I said earlier, the good parts felt a bit rushed to me. But it was still honestly okay?

 

 

Idk if any of this even makes sense cause it's 1am and I listened to a horror podcast on the drive home from the theater and spooked myself lol.

[RyanSz 3140]

Suicide Squad spoilers and thoughts for anyone that wants them

 

 

My main issue is with pacing, character development, and editing. The first two scenes feel like they belonged later in the movie, the slo-mo is painfully slow at times, characters you expect to get a proper introduction because of how they were marketed don't, and they start showing you maybe 5 different ways the movie could go before it settles. The parts that I wanted them to develop slowly and properly were sped up and brushed aside, while the parts that you really didn't need were dragged out for-fucking-ever. Can a movie feel like it goes way too fast and take forever at the same time?

 

Jared's Joker wasn't anything spectacular. It wasn't that much different than Nicholson's Joker in my opinion. Just dressed like he raided Hot Topic before going to the club. I'm convinced that if Jared Leto wasn't a grade A asshole then some might have even really praised his performance. I didn't like the relationship with him and Harley but I suspected I wouldn't. However, what I didn't suspect was that they were going to romanticize them even more. The obsession she has with him seems to actually be his obsession with her? While she's in prison he goes crazy not knowing what to do with himself? Which on one hand I'm glad they made some equality but on the other hand I'm now even more afraid people will excuse his torture of her because he's shown to actually love and care for her. But their relationship is still wildly unhealthy and it really bothers me. ETA: On reflection his Joker really isn't the Joker at all...

 

The actors in the squad commanded the screen. I loved Margot as Harley, like seriously loved her. The acting was honestly really great. Not one person phoned it in. I just wish they had been able to develop them more.

 

Overall I think the critics were too harsh on it. I almost feel like it was just kinda boring cause, like I said earlier, the good parts felt a bit rushed to me. But it was still honestly okay?

 

 

Idk if any of this even makes sense cause it's 1am and I listened to a horror podcast on the drive home from the theater and spooked myself lol.

 

I also think the critics were a bit harsh, one actually wrote "this isn't the wacky romp with zany characters that I thought it was going to be." How else can you expect to like a movie like this when you go in thinking it's going to be something like a buddy cop flick? The relationship between Joker and Harley is very much from the New 52 run at DC, though more geared towards the Joker loving Harley rather than being outright abusive like he usually is, in the comics he actually admits that she isn't the first Harley and locks her in a room filled with skeletons of past gun molls. My main issue with the DC movies are that they expect the audience to know the source material, unlike Marvel which creates visual source material for the viewers to follow if they don't read the comics (Ant-Man and Guardians are prime examples).

 

Most critics complained about how the story is scattershot, which is what my friend who watched it with me also said. That's true, but that is direct from the comic as the group's mission is left ambiguous even to the reader in an attempt to make you feel a part of the Squad. The first couple volumes basically have them running on various missions where the objective is only clear at the very end, and after various mind games or side deals have been perpetrated by Waller in order to keep the group in line. Again your average viewer wouldn't know that so WB and DC should have altered it for their benefit. I loved the opening scene where Viola Davis really showed how perfect a choice she was to play Amanda Waller and I liked how they introduced the main players to the audience, I just wish that they kept that kind of momentum going.

 

As for the Joker, I liked Leto's portrayal because it fits perfectly into this DC universe, as Nicholson's works perfectly for his, and Ledger's does for his. You really can't compare them because they are made for different iterations of the DC universe based on different source material. With Leto clearly pulling from Brian Azzarello's Joker along with the New 52 version that is a bit more of a deranged gangster, I thought he nailed what he was going for, but that's just coming from me as a fan of these comics. The other actors nailed their roles and I was especially surprised how much I liked Smith's Deadshot, as I thought he was just going to try and steal as much screen time as he could. I did think Cara Delevingne was weakest as Enchantress and came off as kinda listless and awkward. I do wish there was more of Killer Croc and Ike Barinholtz, who I thought was fantastic in a non-comedic role.

 

 

Also another couple recommendations for comics for people come from Mark Millar and are more emotionally satistfying than is action forward stories like Kick-Ass and Nemesis. Superior is a great story about a kid with MS who is granted a wish to become his favorite movie superhero while the Jupiter Circle and Legacy books are great stories about how modern superheroes came to existence but then decided to take the world for themselves. Lastly, his newest book, Huck is a great story about a gas station worker with incredible abilities who goes about doing at least one good deed, no matter how small or big, each day, and the people who try to harness his abilities once he is discovered by the masses. All really focus on Millar's ability to create emotional connections with the characters and build upon that, rather than just making giant set piece fights.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

It might be a good idea to put some or maybe even most of that in spoiler tags, fyi.

 

Really most of this is just chalked down to opinions and we agree on the main things but there are a couple of things I want to respond to.

 

 

1. The Joker is outright abusive in the New 52, actually. The only times I see him acting any kind of loving is when he tries to win her back, but she knows it's a front and all abusive assholes do this. My issues with this movie is that it does not present this as a mask but that he is actually in love and obsessed with her. That's not okay considering their long history and how this is the first live-action on screen version of their relationship. I don't give a shit if it fits in anywhere, it's still not okay to make it seem loving and make excuses for his evil behavior towards her. For example, In the New 52 origin Joker throws her into the chemicals that deformed him in order to deform her the same way, he doesn't convince her of his love and talk about her love in order to get her to jump herself. And then before she breaks up with him and is poisoned by the man she realizes how vicious he actually was. Not loving.

 

2. I don't know when I really fully compared the cinematic Jokers to each other, but I only mentioned Nicholson's because I thought they were similar in acting style. Never said anything else on that matter. I didn't even say I disliked his portrayal. Just that it wasn't spectacular nor different nor over the top. It was just as okay as the rest of the movie.

 

[RyanSz 3140]

It might be a good idea to put some or maybe even most of that in spoiler tags, fyi.

 

Really most of this is just chalked down to opinions and we agree on the main things but there are a couple of things I want to respond to.

 

 

1. The Joker is outright abusive in the New 52, actually. The only times I see him acting any kind of loving is when he tries to win her back, but she knows it's a front and all abusive assholes do this. My issues with this movie is that it does not present this as a mask but that he is actually in love and obsessed with her. That's not okay considering their long history and how this is the first live-action on screen version of their relationship. I don't give a shit if it fits in anywhere, it's still not okay to make it seem loving and make excuses for his evil behavior towards her. For example, In the New 52 origin Joker throws her into the chemicals that deformed him in order to deform her the same way, he doesn't convince her of his love and talk about her love in order to get her to jump herself. And then before she breaks up with him and is poisoned by the man she realizes how vicious he actually was. Not loving.

 

2. I don't know when I really fully compared the cinematic Jokers to each other, but I only mentioned Nicholson's because I thought they were similar in acting style. Never said anything else on that matter. I didn't even say I disliked his portrayal. Just that it wasn't spectacular nor different nor over the top. It was just as okay as the rest of the movie.

 

 

Never said that you were comparing Jokers, just that it was a big issue for many of the reviews that I read, sort of like what happened when Heath Ledger was announced for the Dark Knight. As for his New 52 portrayal he is abusive, definitely and I'm not saying it's right or anything, it's just made to seem more of an underlying thing in the film rather than how it's always been portrayed in comics and cartoons as an overt part of the relationship. At least with the New 52 Harley is shown finally breaking through the abuse Joker has put her through, though it is a very long and hard road for her, she's still dealing with it as of the most recent volume of Suicide Squad.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Never said that you were comparing Jokers, just that it was a big issue for many of the reviews that I read, sort of like what happened when Heath Ledger was announced for the Dark Knight. As for his New 52 portrayal he is abusive, definitely and I'm not saying it's right or anything, it's just made to seem more of an underlying thing in the film rather than how it's always been portrayed in comics and cartoons as an overt part of the relationship. At least with the New 52 Harley is shown finally breaking through the abuse Joker has put her through, though it is a very long and hard road for her, she's still dealing with it as of the most recent volume of Suicide Squad.

I guess your statement was a generalized plural "you" then cause you definitely said "you can't compare jokers"

 

That's exactly my point, though, in regards to me not liking their relationship in this movie?

 

 

This movie is romanticizing the abuse from the get go. If we go along with what you are saying, which I agree with, the DCEU is expecting audiences to know all about their history together going into this movie, but they are still giving us their origin story. It's not even the correct New 52 origin so it puts the shit on Harley herself for making the choice instead of Joker for throwing her. Normal everyday audiences aren't going to come into this movie knowing the full extent of the abuse she goes through with this man. Which is why it is dangerous to show him going from torturing her to loving her. It excuses it. This is exactly what we were all talking about fearing with superfans of the Joker earlier in this thread. That's my issue.

 

[Auden 1809]

If you like comics about real people coming together and doing awesome things, then you should read John Lewis's MARCH. The third book just came out. I cried.

Thanks for the rec, Elektra B. I read the synopsis and it sounds right up my alley.

 

Idk if any of this even makes sense cause it's 1am and I listened to a horror podcast on the drive home from the theater and spooked myself lol.

Ooh, what podcast is that?

 

I had considered watching Suicide Squad because of Margot Robbie. She really is a great actress. Even critics who gave the movie the thumbs down praised her performance. But looking at her costume, I suspected my enjoyment of her performance would be compromised. The various reviews and commentaries confirmed my suspicion. I like what A.O. Scott has written in his review.

 

Harley Quinn, meanwhile, in a tiny T-shirt and tinier shorts, her multicolored hair in ponytails, is a frat boy’s idea of what a feminist action heroine might look like. Her relationship with the Joker — she calls him her Puddin’, and is basically his brainwashed plaything — is a sour sexual nightmare played as a smirky, naughty joke. Harley is the object of a tired, lowest-common-denominator male fantasy, much as Ms. Robbie herself was in a recent Vanity Fair profile.

 

Some viewers may take offense at the way Harley is depicted. Others may shrug it off. The target audience is likely to be at least mildly titillated.

Another article I like is A.V. Club's Margot Robbie deserves better than Suicide Squad’s sexism.

[DanEngler 5249]

I had considered watching Suicide Squad because of Margot Robbie. She really is a great actress. Even critics who gave the movie the thumbs down praised her performance. But looking at her costume, I suspected my enjoyment of her performance would be compromised.

I saw a photo from a Suicide Squad porn parody today, and the clothes worn by Harley Quinn covered more skin than her wardrobe in the actual movie.

[Auden 1809]

I went to look for the pic and saw that there are already 2 Suicide Squad porn parodies! That was fast.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Ooh, what podcast is that?

 

I had considered watching Suicide Squad because of Margot Robbie. She really is a great actress. Even critics who gave the movie the thumbs down praised her performance. But looking at her costume, I suspected my enjoyment of her performance would be compromised. The various reviews and commentaries confirmed my suspicion. I like what A.O. Scott has written in his review.

 

Another article I like is A.V. Club's Margot Robbie deserves better than Suicide Squad’s sexism.

The podcast is The Black Tapes. It's not the best horror/supernatural related one around (some of the research needs work and some of the conversations sound fake) but I still got sucked into the story and sometimes I scare easily. Depending on the subject matter of course lol.

 

As far as Harley goes

 

 

I personally didn't believe the character to only be the product of a frat boy's wet dream. It's definitely a factor but I think there is much more to it than that. While I was not originally happy with the choices they went with her look during her revamp in the comics I have to say the movie stayed pretty true to where her style is right now. Also they make it known that she chooses which outfit to wear on the mission despite being handed a trunk full of her clothes. I still think this is a tricky topic, though. I am not fond of the outfit, but also want to respect a woman's right to feel empowered by whatever it is she wears. But considering this is a fictional character designed by men, it still makes me feel conflicted. Especially since she is currently in the movie part of an unhealthy abusive relationship, but even in the comics when she gets away from him and is more independent, and then even starts to have a relationship with Poison Ivy, she continues to dress herself the same way.

 

I agree and disagree with both of the reviews. I am just not one to think that an outfit is any kind of indication on what a woman will act like. That feels like toeing a fine line to slut shaming and victim blaming. But the way the camera pans over her, and focuses on certain body parts does make her feel way more sexualized than she should be. Also Margot's VF profile was beyond disgusting.

 

The thing about her character is, though, I always felt like she was more self-aware than she let on. It was like that in a lot of her SS comics that she knew how the guys looked at her and thought lesser of her because of it, and she used that to her advantage. I thought she did the same in the movie.

 

I believe that she's just in a different movie that I actually think is better and I really want to watch that one.

 

[Auden 1809]

The podcast is The Black Tapes. It's not the best horror/supernatural related one around (some of the research needs work and some of the conversations sound fake) but I still got sucked into the story and sometimes I scare easily. Depending on the subject matter of course lol.

Thanks for answering my question, Taylor Anne! My horror well has run dry for now (I'm waiting for The Conjuring 2 and Lights Out to come out on DVD so that I can watch them at home in broad daylight.).

 

I agree with you about the clothes. I'm definitely against saying what a woman should or should not wear and that she's the sum of her outfit. And I hope both Harley and Margot will get movies worthy of them.

 

This is such a silly thing to share but incidentally, a couple of nights ago I dreamt that there was a war between gods and goddesses because the gods had been oppressing the goddesses. After a bloody war with many casualties on both sides, the goddesses won. The goddesses held a victory parade and a few of them marched topless, including a goddess who looked exactly like Mariska Hargitay.

 

ETA: Another embarrassing thing. What do you guys think is going on if the number of your profile views outpace your likes by A LOT?

[DanEngler 5249]

While we're talking about representation of women in media: I saw the new Star Trek with friends last week and, afterwards, one of them remarked that Simon Pegg had written the script to ensure Scotty got the primary love interest for once. Thinking about it, I couldn't recall a single instance in which Jaylah was sexualized in the film, and they managed to avoid any of the usual gendered insults during her final one-on-one confrontation. (Even the vaguely cheeky captain's chair bit was apparently improvised by Sofia Boutella on set.)

 

So, at least it's not all bad news.