Episode 141.5 - Minisode 141.5

[klemjohansen 748]

Both The Shadow and The Phantom, being based on old-timey radio shows,

both partake in a particular kind of old-timey racism- specifically, the unquestioned belief that asian people are magical creatures not unlike leprechauns.

 

The filmmakers probably pitched it like - "What if we made that sequel to The Shadow you always asked about - except the movie really wants to be Indiana Jones?"

[Mathey 419]

The old 1943 Republic Serial based on the Phantom comic strip is actually pretty good, if you can get past the grosser bits of '40s culture (i.e. racism, sexism, etc.). It may just be that it shines in comparison to some of the really BAD movie serials of the era - The Lost City in particular is four hours of jaw-droppingly awfulness - but I'd argue it does the character better than the 90's film. You can find it on the innernet if you know where to look and have the time.

 

As far as Suicide Squad, I really loved the old Ostrander comic book, but nothing about the trailers for the new movie appealed to me. I like weird paramilitary supervillain mayhem as much as the next guy, but the tone and look just turned me off immediately.

[EllenM 943]

 

I wanted a Viola Davis to succeed.

I love how easy it is to use in every context. I just discovered Whispering Angel isn't available in SK. It was a dark moment.

[klemjohansen 748]

Watching the movie and suddenly...

 

UNEXPECTED SKULL CROTCH

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

I also just saw BvS and, while the Batman-versus-Superman portion was okay, the additional 90 minutes of transparent "we have to lay the groundwork for a Justice League movie" filler was baffling. Marvel spent eight years constructing a cinematic universe; DC's script writers were handed a checklist of all the references needed to "catch up" overnight, and their solution was to inject a bunch of unexplained visions/cameos/omega symbols/riveting file-browsing sequences.

 

just finished typing this ... sorry for the length ... feel free to skip

 

not looking for a marvel v DC argument here cause i am just a casual fan of these characters. i only really see them when they are in movies. ive never read a comic book or watched any of the new tv shows so i have no knowledge of the likes of the flash, cyborg or aquaman. (note: i had no clue that guy in batmans dream was the flash until i watched the extras ... so in that sense i see what you're saying). more importantly i suppose that means i have no original material to compare it any of the movies to. it's all new to me...

 

so from that point of view ....

 

i only thought all that stuff took about 10 mins and i kinda enjoyed it. the videos in the files were little snippets of whats to come. DC are definitely playing catch up so from a financial/time stand-point i guess thats why they have rushed it and that would annoy me if i had some history with these characters, so i can see why the fans were annoyed.

 

that's another reason why i'm looking forward to suicide squad. apart from a little knowledge of harley i don't know any of them. they're all new characters i get to like/dislike so it's exciting. i do hope there is less CGI in this though. when i see the batmobile smack off a wall and its a CGI batmobile ... thats a problem for me.

 

as for marvel. they have done great stuff but i am getting abit avenger'd out. again, take this next point as someone with no comic book knowledge, they don't seem to be going anywhere fast. it's all abit repetitive. ive enjoyed most of the movies, especially the winter soldier, but i need them to get a move on now. for me the 2 thor movies have been the weakest offering in the franchise and i just heard they have wrapped on another one. i could have done without that but i think the hulk is featured and i do love the hulk so maybe he can carry me through that one.

 

also, GOTG and deadpool were alot of fun so i'm looking forward to seeing where they will tie in.

 

 

everything above is probably after annoying real comic book fans so i apologise. i wont say anymore. i just wanted to give another view point in what i think is a pretty safe, reasonable place.

 

some of the madness we have seen in recent times has made me wonder if there was a similar reaction when movies like the shadow and the phantom came out or maybe it's just cause everyone has access to everyone else's opinions and as has been proved over and over again, nothing gets peoples goat more than someone differing in opinion to their own .. me especially. if you tell me you don't like a tv show which i had no hand in other than spending 22 hours, or less, watching, out of the 8760 hours in a year (8784 in a leap year) ... well you better get ready to see my version of the hulk mister ... he's alot smaller and more red in the face than green .... maybe i'll go and look up some reviews from back then ... or maybe i'll just watch another movie ... yeah . i think that's what i'll do .. has anyone seen this jonah hex????

[RyanSz 3140]

There was a Joker/Harley fanfic I discovered back in maybe 2009 called Dog Will Hunt that I thought was actually a brilliantly written introduction to those two. It's centered around Harley being his doctor at Arkham and how her obsession takes hold and just wow. I have no idea if it's still even on the internet anymore but if anyone likes to read good fanfic then I highly recommend it.

There have been a lot of versions of that over the years, but the one that they did in the last edition of Suicide Squad was really good because it was shown to the reader using Harley's internal voice. Basically it's her first day/week in Arkham and she is assigned the Joker as everyone before her has either gone crazy themselves or tried to commit suicide. It starts normal for her where she is being analytical with him, trying to solve the enigma that he is. Eventually she starts getting obsessed with him and is called out on it by the lead physician, who Harley attacks once she realizes that the doctor is stealing her notes and work in order to write a book of her own. Harley then helps Joker escape and is later tossed into a vat of chemicals that bleaches her skin and alters her hair, completing her transformation as a follower of the Joker.

 

There was another great short that was a part of the Batman: Black & White anthology series where an Arkham doctor finds an old report that goes into great detail about the Joker's past and the things he did leading up to becoming who he currently is. Unfortunately Harley is escorted by and sees the report, telling the doctor that she wrote it years ago while studying him, thus making it unreliable for scientific study as it was written by a person who was in love with the subject and suffering mental issues of her own, thus another prank done by-proxy for the Joker.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Lol yes, I know. I was strictly talking about a well written fanfic I read 7 years ago.

[klemjohansen 748]

The place naming in this movie is so lazy. In just the first couple of minutes you see an encampment, almost always named after some dead white dude, simply called "Jungle Patrol." We know it's in the jungle. We just saw five minutes of jungle. We know it's a patrol because the guy on top of that very sign is on, well, patrol. And shortly afterward we see a charity event with the evocative title of "Annual Charity Dinner." Have you ever heard a non-profit spending all year planning their primary fundraiser and bestowing it with a theme like "charity dinner." At least they threw "annual" in there to give it some texture.

[klemjohansen 748]

My favorite part so far is 22:00 when Uncle Tuxedo is like "that guy is horrible! He's checking books out of the library like some kind of nerd! Look, here's a symbol I wrote on a swatch of fabric from Stevie Nicks' dress! I've tracked that totally-not-spider-man-related symbol to the only place on the planet with spiders- The Bangala Jungle from the first part of this movie!!"

[klemjohansen 748]

The skulls are exactly like boobs in that they are much more powerful when put together.

[tomspanks 9039]

I love how easy it is to use in every context. I just discovered Whispering Angel isn't available in SK. It was a dark moment.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit I had 2 bottles of Whispering Angel last week.

 

The skulls are exactly like boobs in that they are much more powerful when put together.

 

So 3 boobs are better than 2?

[DanEngler 5249]

not looking for a marvel v DC argument here cause i am just a casual fan of these characters. i only really see them when they are in movies. ive never read a comic book or watched any of the new tv shows so i have no knowledge of the likes of the flash, cyborg or aquaman. (note: i had no clue that guy in batmans dream was the flash until i watched the extras ... so in that sense i see what you're saying). more importantly i suppose that means i have no original material to compare it any of the movies to. it's all new to me...

 

so from that point of view ....

 

i only thought all that stuff took about 10 mins and i kinda enjoyed it. the videos in the files were little snippets of whats to come. DC are definitely playing catch up so from a financial/time stand-point i guess thats why they have rushed it and that would annoy me if i had some history with these characters, so i can see why the fans were annoyed.

Oh, I'm not evaluating BvS from the perspective of a comics fan. Most of my exposure to Batman lore has been Rocksteady's Arkham games, and I've found every film incarnation of Superman profoundly boring. What seemed like the kernel of a great story/acclaimed graphic novel was laden with so much "Desert Batman fights flying monkeys" and "Kryptonian Jacuzzi God" and "Screaming Time Portal Boy" shit, none of it relevant to the movie at hand. If I have to read a series of Wikipedia articles to understand your movie, you have failed as a filmmaker.

 

I agree with you 100% about Marvel's movies, though. I'm holding onto a sliver of hope that Black Panther and Captain Marvel will deliver something radically different and exciting but, barring that, I'm willing to concede that the zeitgeist* has passed me by.

 

* Hi Taylor Anne!

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

Okay I am way behind on posts. Thanks for the hugs and support I needed it.

 

 

One thing I've noticed about the Suicide Squad reviews is that quite a few critics (female AND male) wrote about the sexism in the movie. Even as recent as say, 5 years ago, the way female characters are portrayed in a movie was something not often discussed in movie reviews.

 

 

I don't understand. What's wooiefy?

 

I meant "woobie"-fy. As in turn a character into a woobie. I like the Joker as a villain. But Leto saying he's "a sweetheart" is too much for me. This happened a lot after "The Avengers" with Loki. I like Tom Hiddleston a lot. He is very handsome. But people online were like "Odin was too mean to him." And I was like "He tried to literally take over the Earth. You can't use "daddy was mean to me" as an excuse for that." At some point... it's on you, you know? Making excuses for the Joker is just a bridge too far.

 

 

The Harley/Joker dynamic is a really difficult one to get right. (This is probably why Taylor Anne still remembers a fic that did it justice.) I was disappointed to learn the SUICIDE SQUAD movie would be following the New 52 storyline, in which Harley doesn't slowly go insane while studying the Joker so much as be tortured by him and then fall into a vat of toxic sludge--just as the Joker did. You can see him in the trailers leaping in to "save" her like he's some kind of Olympic diver. It makes me roll my eyes.

 

I don't really want to see women get tortured on screen. I've reached my capacity for that. (I don't really *want* to see men get tortured either, now that I think about it.)

 

Turning the evil dude into a heartthrob and then explaining away all the evil like that's not completely a fucked up thing to do.

 

I say this and then I see that Michael B Jordan was cast in Black Panther and I s2g if he is the villain I'm gonna probably wooiefy the shit out of him. Everyone in that cast is already a damn heartthrob.

 

See my way of dealing with this is saying, "I simply like Michael B. Jordan" (which I do). I also find Tom Hiddleston more attractive when he's not in the Loki character--perhaps it's the greasy wig that I don't enjoy though.

 

There were also a lot of people online who though Kilgrave in "Jessica Jones" was a woobie. Apparently there was more Jessica/Kilgrave fic than Jessica/Luke Cage. These are things I just don't understand. Kilgrave literally raped her and Luke Cage is a literal Disney prince.

 

 

I wanted a Viola Davis to succeed.

 

I always want Viola Davis to succeed! There is nothing wrong with that. I wanted SUICIDE SQUAD to be good because I love her and I also love the Amanda Waller character. I would probably be lining up to see it already if the promotion was 900% more about Viola Davis and 900% less about Jared Leto.

 

 

I'm with all of you on BvS. It was okay. But I found myself kind of tuning out and then whenever Gal Gadot was on screen I was like, "WAIT WHAT! SQUIRREL!"

[NathanGordon 1096]

I'm with all of you on BvS. It was okay. But I found myself kind of tuning out and then whenever Gal Gadot was on screen I was like, "WAIT WHAT! SQUIRREL!"

Me too. I think Affleck makes a great Batman, possibly the best we've ever had. I didn't think it was terrible, just overlong and overserious. And ended with yet another generic CGI monster that was kind of a Hulk villain, kind of a reject from Lord of the Rings.

 

The Wonder Woman trailer looked great. I figure if BvS is what had to get us to that film, I'm okay with it. I think the DC/WB problem was initially not having the whole franchise mapped out, and then making a bizarre commitment to Zac Snyder -- I really don't get that one. I guess his films are generally box office earners, but no one's ever gonna mistake them for good films, much less great ones.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

See my way of dealing with this is saying, "I simply like Michael B. Jordan" (which I do). I also find Tom Hiddleston more attractive when he's not in the Loki character--perhaps it's the greasy wig that I don't enjoy though.

 

There were also a lot of people online who though Kilgrave in "Jessica Jones" was a woobie. Apparently there was more Jessica/Kilgrave fic than Jessica/Luke Cage. These are things I just don't understand. Kilgrave literally raped her and Luke Cage is a literal Disney prince.

 

I'm with all of you on BvS. It was okay. But I found myself kind of tuning out and then whenever Gal Gadot was on screen I was like, "WAIT WHAT! SQUIRREL!"

I was mostly kidding. I can indeed separate the actor from the character and will always have Creed if I need to just think fondly onto any of his screen presence. However, I can't say I won't look at him with heart eyes because he's gorgeous. This does not in any way justify anything his character does in Black Panther.

 

The Kilgrave stuff still makes me sick. It's hard to go around the internet (looking at you tumblr) when people want to post over and over about how perfect Jessica and him are together. Like jfc that's the worst.

 

And I agree with you 100% about Gal in BvS. She was the shining diamond in the coal mine.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I meant "woobie"-fy. As in turn a character into a woobie. I like the Joker as a villain. But Leto saying he's "a sweetheart" is too much for me. This happened a lot after "The Avengers" with Loki. I like Tom Hiddleston a lot. He is very handsome. But people online were like "Odin was too mean to him." And I was like "He tried to literally take over the Earth. You can't use "daddy was mean to me" as an excuse for that." At some point... it's on you, you know? Making excuses for the Joker is just a bridge too far.

 

 

 

There were also a lot of people online who though Kilgrave in "Jessica Jones" was a woobie. Apparently there was more Jessica/Kilgrave fic than Jessica/Luke Cage. These are things I just don't understand. Kilgrave literally raped her and Luke Cage is a literal Disney prince.

 

 

The Kilgrave stuff still makes me sick. It's hard to go around the internet (looking at you tumblr) when people want to post over and over about how perfect Jessica and him are together.

 

...and these people are not only allowed, but encouraged, to vote.

 

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

What seemed like the kernel of a great story/acclaimed graphic novel was laden with so much "Desert Batman fights flying monkeys" and "Kryptonian Jacuzzi God" and "Screaming Time Portal Boy" shit, none of it relevant to the movie at hand. If I have to read a series of Wikipedia articles to understand your movie, you have failed as a filmmaker.

 

yeah, i was abit lost with all that but i just left it go. i figured those scenes were nods to the source material and the fans would love it. i only saw the theatrical version, maybe the extended version explains it abit more but there's no way i'm watching another 3 hours of it ... maybe in the future but not soon.

 

i did like the look of the desert scene though. i wouldn't mind seeing more of it but it's very easy to get that kinda stuff very wrong.

 

 

but leaving all that behind i do have a question for ye ... i have often thought of trying to get into the comics/graphic novels but every time i go into a shop or online i get completely over whelmed by the amount of material out there. i pick up a book and its part 4 of a series or it features characters i've never heard of....

 

i guess what i am asking is ... where do you start? just take batman ... is there a way of going right back to the start? do i need to do that? i love the animated series and i love the movies (mostly) so i think i'd like to read material related to those.

 

it's one thing we never had over here, comic book shops. they did start to pop up about 10 - 15 years ago but the recession saw to them. and from what i've seen it can be an expensive hobby to get in to.

 

 

and another thing ye might help me with .. i have a godson and everytime it's time to get him a present i try to get him a book. recently i've switched over to graphic novels but i just end up getting him stuff based on the movies coming out in the next few years. is there any book out there (suitable for a 15 year old) that ye would highly recommend? the kid is a black belt in kick boxing so if there are any books with a martial arts element i think he would love them .. wishful thinking?

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

yeah, i was abit lost with all that but i just left it go. i figured those scenes were nods to the source material and the fans would love it. i only saw the theatrical version, maybe the extended version explains it abit more but there's no way i'm watching another 3 hours of it ... maybe in the future but not soon.

 

i did like the look of the desert scene though. i wouldn't mind seeing more of it but it's very easy to get that kinda stuff very wrong.

 

 

but leaving all that behind i do have a question for ye ... i have often thought of trying to get into the comics/graphic novels but every time i go into a shop or online i get completely over whelmed by the amount of material out there. i pick up a book and its part 4 of a series or it features characters i've never heard of....

 

i guess what i am asking is ... where do you start? just take batman ... is there a way of going right back to the start? do i need to do that? i love the animated series and i love the movies (mostly) so i think i'd like to read material related to those.

 

it's one thing we never had over here, comic book shops. they did start to pop up about 10 - 15 years ago but the recession saw to them. and from what i've seen it can be an expensive hobby to get in to.

 

 

and another thing ye might help me with .. i have a godson and everytime it's time to get him a present i try to get him a book. recently i've switched over to graphic novels but i just end up getting him stuff based on the movies coming out in the next few years. is there any book out there (suitable for a 15 year old) that ye would highly recommend? the kid is a black belt in kick boxing so if there are any books with a martial arts element i think he would love them .. wishful thinking?

 

One of my favorite topics!

 

For your Godson, I can not recommend The Immortal Iron Fist and Hawkeye enough, both by Matt Fraction and David Aja. Both are pretty much self contained stories (The complete Iron Fist comes in two volumes) that don't require the reader to be familiar with years of continuity.

 

As far as cost goes, yes, it can get up there which is why I usually go for "Complete," "Absolute," or "Omnibus" collections from the site I linked above. I find their prices to be pretty fair, although I'm not sure what the cost to ship to Ireland might be. In the US, you get free shipping if you spend more than $50. Still, the prices can still be a bit high up front, but--depending on the collection--you usually get somewhere between 15-50 issues at a pop. Another possible solution is to subscribe to a service like Marvel Unlimited. Basically, it's like Netflix for the Marvel catalog. You pay by the month (or by the year for a discount) and you have digital access to years of back issues with new issues added about 6 months or so after their release date. Just another option. I don't know if DC has a similar service...

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Oh recommendations time! Love it!

 

Just to get into the actual buying and reading of comics/graphic novels without the 70+ years of overwhelming history I recommend Saga, The Wicked + The Divine, and Sex Criminals. All seriously amazing stories by authors and artists who have written for DC and Marvel. And then on the Marvel side, because I kept up with buying those stories, I also can not recommend Hawkeye enough, but also Black Widow, Captain Marvel, and Ms. Marvel. All have recognizable characters and are amazing to get into without having read anything before.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Oh recommendations time! Love it!

 

Just to get into the actual buying and reading of comics/graphic novels without the 70+ years of overwhelming history I recommend Saga, The Wicked + The Divine, and Sex Criminals. All seriously amazing stories by authors and artists who have written for DC and Marvel. And then on the Marvel side, because I kept up with buying those stories, I also can not recommend Hawkeye enough, but also Black Widow, Captain Marvel, and Ms. Marvel. All have recognizable characters and are amazing to get into without having read anything before.

 

Enthusiastically seconded on every count!

 

On a separate topic, is anyone reading or planning to read Harry Potter and the Cursed Child? To be honest, I'm pretty burnt out on the whole Potter-verse, but I was still intrigued. However, when I learned Rowling was didn't actually write it (just "story by") I became dubious. My plan was just to read just enough of the Wikipedia article on it to see if it seemed interesting, which it did...at first. Needless to say, I couldn't help myself and read the whole thing, and I have to say, what I read sounded like the worst fan fiction gobbledegook I've ever seen. I was just wondering it reads better on the page...

[taylor anne photo 11311]

On a separate topic, is anyone reading or planning to read Harry Potter and the Cursed Child? To be honest, I'm pretty burnt out on the whole Potter-verse, but I was still intrigued. However, when I learned Rowling was didn't actually write it (just "story by") I became dubious. My plan was just to read just enough of the Wikipedia article on it to see if it seemed interesting, which it did...at first. Needless to say, I couldn't help myself and read the whole thing, and I have to say, what I read sounded like the worst fan fiction gobbledegook I've ever seen. I was just wondering it reads better on the page...

Harry Potter is my shit

 

Like I view talking about how much I love it like talking about the fact that I have legs. There's no need to it is just there. So imagine my hype for Avengers and times that by 100 and you get how infected I am with fuckin' Harry Potter lol.

 

But to your point - I have not read it yet, I forgot to pre-order it so it's currently on it's way from Amazon. I also could not help myself and read the recap from someone who had seen the play and felt... confused... It definitely felt like Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way's brilliant fanfic had a sequel and was published. But I've heard that it's much better actually written and not just read through recounts.

[Auden 1809]

Also who knows if they'll ever understand why trying to capitalize on the Nolan era story-telling by making everything dark and gritty is such a bad idea. In my opinion what made all of those movies work so well were not that they were darker movies, especially since Batman in the Burton era was already dark and gritty, but rather that they were so real. They were focused on real life scenarios with these bonkers scenarios anchoring them. The mob controlling a city is real, and then you add in a crazy dude dressed like a clown and a dude that dresses up like a bat to fight him and boom you have a comic book movie.

I've only watched the first 2 Nolan Batman. I only remember 2 scenes from the movies. One is the bank manager scene (William Fichtner is so fucking hot), and the other is the prisoner's dilemma scene.

 

I love your points about darkness and realism.

 

There were also a lot of people online who though Kilgrave in "Jessica Jones" was a woobie. Apparently there was more Jessica/Kilgrave fic than Jessica/Luke Cage. These are things I just don't understand. Kilgrave literally raped her and Luke Cage is a literal Disney prince.

Thanks for replying to my question, Elektra Boogaloo!

 

Haha. One of my friends wrote, "If you ship Jessica and Kilgrave, I abjure you. I see you no longer. I hunt with you no longer."

 

i have a godson and everytime it's time to get him a present i try to get him a book. recently i've switched over to graphic novels but i just end up getting him stuff based on the movies coming out in the next few years. is there any book out there (suitable for a 15 year old) that ye would highly recommend? the kid is a black belt in kick boxing so if there are any books with a martial arts element i think he would love them .. wishful thinking?

What about manga? Many titles have martial arts in them. The Guardian has a list of recommendations for teens. Manga titles are not ongoing series. When they are done, they are done. (Then you watch the anime, and the movie.) Some titles are available in box sets, and some in omnibuses.

 

Random thoughts on movie characters:

 

As someone who struggles to be nice, to do the right things, to not lapse into chaos, I'm drawn to the nice and good characters. It's difficult to be nice and good.

 

Confession: I'm not into superheroes. I really really tried to like them. I want to be part of the conversation! I don't like feeling left out! But I find the concept of superheroes to be libertarian, individualistic, and elitist. I don't like the idea of so much power being held by so few people, even if they are the good guys. When I watch superheroes movies, I find myself thinking, what about long term systemic changes, that would really save the world! The origin of all power is in the people! I prefer stories of ordinary people doing extraordinary things, or, even better, stories of ordinary people working together to do extraordinary things (Yes we can!).

[tomspanks 9039]

I loved the Harry Potter series, but I have no desire to read HP and the Cursed Child. I dunno, we got an epilogue in the final book, I don't need another one.

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

thanks guys ... all suggestions recorded. i now have some where to start so great stuff ... i love this place

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

Thanks for replying to my question, Elektra Boogaloo!

 

Haha. One of my friends wrote, "If you ship Jessica and Kilgrave, I abjure you. I see you no longer. I hunt with you no longer."

This is my new favorite saying and something I need to do from now on. Just Abjure people left and right!

 

If you like comics about real people coming together and doing awesome things, then you should read John Lewis's MARCH. The third book just came out. I cried.

 

I'm trying to think of some of my fave superhero books. I had the same problem of getting into comics. I loved the X-Men cartoon so I picked up a Wolverine comic at a store but it was like part four about some weird story about aliens and I did not get it at all.

 

For Batman, I absolutely do not under any circumstances recommend "The Killing Joke." People who are into Superman (that is, people who are not me) think "All-Star Superman" is a good place to start for him. I thought it was kinda boring.

 

My fave Wonder Woman arc is Wonder Woman Eyes of the Gorgon because she is bad ass, but now I see it is out of print. ... and the other one I was gonna recommend is also out of print. Which is just typical of DC.

 

For Jessica Jones you want to start with Alias Vol 1. But that is absolutely not for kids, especially once you get to the Purple Man stuff.

 

For younger readers I like to rec Ms. Marvel, which I think was already mentioned. I also like NIMONA, which is not a comic but a graphic novel that was like originally a book thing. But Nimona can turn into a SHARK. So like, she should be the HDTGM mascot.