Musical Mondays Off-Week 3 (Taylor Anne Photo's Choice)

[tomspanks 9039]

What are some of the classic movies on your watchlist, guys?

[Cameron H. 23786]

What are some of the classic movies on your watchlist, guys?

 

I have to think about it, but there are a bunch.

[tomspanks 9039]

I have to think about it, but there are a bunch.

 

Name some so we can laugh at you.

J/k - I've never seen The Godfather.

[Cameron H. 23786]

J/k - I've never seen The Godfather.

 

 

Treasure of the Sierra Madre...

 

ITunes just had a sale and I bought Raging Bull, Wall Street, and Life of Pi none of which I've seen (Although in not sure if Pi can be considered a. classic yet...)

 

P.s. I saw The Godfather movies relatively late in life

[NathanGordon 1096]

There's large swaths of Scorsese and Coppola I haven't bothered to see. Or other important dude directors from the 60s and 70s, that kind of stuff just doesn't interest me anymore.

 

I've seen only a few Billy Wilder films.

 

I've never seen Scream, American Pie, or Titanic. Bits and pieces, here and there, but I'm just never going to sit down and watch Titanic. At a certain point, you've picked up so much through cultural osmosis that it feels redundant. I'm dating a Scottish lady who has never seen a single Star Wars movie, but it's not like she's been in a coma and doesn't know what Jedis are. (We do have lots of "what exactly is a street fighter?" moments, though.)

[taylor anne photo 11311]

What are some of the classic movies on your watchlist, guys?

Citizen Kane for sure. Oh and Casablanca.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Citizen Kane for sure. Oh and Casablanca.

This.

 

Treasure of the Sierra Madre...

Also this.

 

 

 

Name some so we can laugh at you.

J/k - I've never seen The Godfather.

You're an animal...

 

(But, Godfather is worth watching just so you can see Godfather Part II, which is SO much better)

 

 

I'm just never going to sit down and watch Titanic. At a certain point, you've picked up so much through cultural osmosis that it feels redundant.

I kind of felt this way, but I watched it for the first time last year because a podcast I really love was covering James Cameron films. I gotta say: it's kind of awesome.

 

There's all the stuff you know from cultural osmosis (e.g, "king of the world," "draw me like one of your French girls"), but I thought there was a lot more to it. For example, I didn't even know Kathy Bates was in it, and she has the best character in the whole movie. I think it's worth a watch, even if you think you know most of the high points.

[NathanGordon 1096]

Citizen Kane for sure. Oh and Casablanca.

I'm not a huge fan of either film but respect their contributions to cinema blah blah

 

Roger Ebert recorded commentary tracks for both of these that are well worth checking out. The Citizen Kane one especially is like a film class, with Ebert breaking down the cinematography, editing, all the language of film that we really take for granted, which Welles was breaking new ground with. I still don't like the film a lot, it's not a favorite, but worth seeing for how influential it is.

 

I mean, I'd still rather watch The Little Mermaid. (It has better music than Beauty & the Beast, after all...)

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I mean, I'd still rather watch The Little Mermaid. (It has better music than Beauty & the Beast, after all...)

 

Really? I watched The Little Mermaid for the first time in a long time not too long ago, and moreso than even the earliest Disney princess movies, I found its message to be...troublesome.

 

Music-wise? I personally prefer Beauty and the Beast, but that's just me.

[NathanGordon 1096]

Really? I watched The Little Mermaid for the first time in a long time not too long ago, and moreso than even the earliest Disney princess movies, I found its message to be...troublesome.

 

Music-wise? I personally prefer Beauty and the Beast, but that's just me.

Don't you start talking about troublesome shit in Disney movies, you and I both know that is an endless well.

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

Also, Batteries Not Included >>> Cocoon.

 

I finished Cocoon this morning, and while i still don't disagree with you, when Wilfred Brimley is saying goodbye to his grandson, this was me...

 

 

I'm never going to get the snot stains out of my Spidey PJ's.

[tomspanks 9039]

 

I finished Cocoon this morning, and while i still don't disagree with you, when Wilfred Brimley is saying goodbye to his grandson, this was me...

 

I'm never going to get the snot stains out of my Spidey PJ's.

 

 

You can see him again in Cocoon 2!

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

You can see him again in Cocoon 2!

 

Ah! You've re-booted my soul!

 

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I'm not a huge fan of either film but respect their contributions to cinema blah blah

 

Roger Ebert recorded commentary tracks for both of these that are well worth checking out. The Citizen Kane one especially is like a film class, with Ebert breaking down the cinematography, editing, all the language of film that we really take for granted, which Welles was breaking new ground with. I still don't like the film a lot, it's not a favorite, but worth seeing for how influential it is.

 

I mean, I'd still rather watch The Little Mermaid. (It has better music than Beauty & the Beast, after all...)

 

Ooph, in the immortal words of Queen Amidala, you're breaking my heart. Well, not that bad, but I unabashadly adore movies like Casablanca and Citizen Kane. I think I can more easily immerse myself in classic Hollywood than a lot of other periods of cinema. French New Wave? 1970s Hollywood rebel auteurs? Meh. But cool guys smoking while talking to classy dames? I AM INTO IT.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

Ooph, in the immortal words of Queen Amidala, you're breaking my heart. Well, not that bad, but I unabashadly adore movies like Casablanca and Citizen Kane. I think I can more easily immerse myself in classic Hollywood than a lot of other periods of cinema. French New Wave? 1970s Hollywood rebel auteurs? Meh. But cool guys smoking while talking to classy dames? I AM INTO IT.

 

Maltese Falcon is the shit, bro!

 

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

Maltese Falcon is the shit, bro!

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Out of context this looks very very odd lol

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

But to clarify my earlier comment, I am here because I LOVE ALL MOVIES SO MUCH. It's just... there's a certain squishy area of my heart that those kind of films have exclusive access to, the same way that cheesy 80s action or horror have exclusive access to other spirit-areas. Or certain animated movies, to bring it back to Beauty and the Beast.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Bogey misquoting Shakespeare! I talk about this bit in a chapter I wrote for a book that should be coming out later this year with Cambridge University Press (Shakespeare and Quotation): my joint's called “Populating Film-Worlds: Quoting Shakespeare on the Twentieth-Century Screen.” Bogey's butchery of The Tempest is considered one of the seminal quotes from 20c film but no one notices that he gets it wrong. Anyway.

 

 

(really, it's true)

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I don't even consider that a quote, but a paraphrase. The Maltese Falcon doesn't seem like the kind of movie that would quote Shakespeare, at least out of the mouth of Sam Spade, but express the same sentiment? Absolutely. I've never viewed it as a quote, more of a reference.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Well... it's not a paraphrase, exactly. It's a substitution of two words that makes the phrase more quotable - 'We are such stuff / As dreams are made on' (Tempest, IV.i.156-57) - as opposed to 'The stuff that dreams are made of'. It's not a paraphrase if the three active words from Shakespeare (stuff/dreams/made) are left intact, definitely drawing attention to the Shakespearean link. One of the points I make in my article is that it's not likely a reference designed to have us scrambling for connections to The Tempest so much as it's a phrase from the canon that's passed into a general usage and been corrupted (Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well is another example) and then quoted by the screenwriter. I agree, that Sam Spade isn't revealing his love for the bard, but I stand by my point that it's a misquotation, or at very least, a repackaging for the context. Paraphrasing would usually remove the active reference words but maintain its meaning. For example, see Josh Hartnett's 'Hugo Goulding' - the Iago figure in Tim Blake-Nelson's O - and how his final lines in that film are “Ask me nothing, I did what I did, and that’s all you need to know. From here on out I say nothing," which very consciously paraphrases Iago's "“Demand me nothing. What you know, you know. / From this time forth, I never will speak word.”

 

With all that said, I agree with your reference position. I'd just be curious to know whether the screenwriter knew the line from Shakespeare or from the inherited common vernacular.

[Cameron H. 23786]

“Ask me nothing, I did what I did, and that’s all you need to know. From here on out I say nothing," which very consciously paraphrases Iago's "“Demand me nothing. What you know, you know. / From this time forth, I never will speak word.”

 

Thank you for reminding me of how much I love Iago as a villain. I did a paper on him in college. I love that slimy bastard.

 

 

Do you have any theories behind his motivations? Racism? Jealousy? Or is he just an agent of chaos?

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Do you have any theories behind his motivations? Racism? Jealousy? Or is he just an agent of chaos?

 

He tells us straight up that it's because he was overlooked for his promotion, and also has a quick throwaway that he thinks Othello has been having sex with his wife, Emilia - 'And it is thought abroad that 'twixt my sheets / He hath done my office' - although there's nothing in the play to suggest that's true. Emilia seems like too nice a lady (and not exactly Othello's type), and when she figures out he's murdered Desdemona, there's no hint of a past relationship. I don't know if racism as we know it today comes into it - the anti-Moorish references in the play are casual and descriptive, and there's nothing to suggest Iago hates Othello because he's a Moor, but rather he hates him because of what he's denied him ('thought abroad' links in to what Cassio says later about his most important possession being his 'reputation'). Laurence Olivier has a lovely story about how he played Iago to Ralph Richardson's Othello, and during Othello's epileptic fit scene, Olivier kissed Richardson passionately to break him out of it, working on the subtext that Iago is actually in love with Othello and vengeful because he's been spurned. Richardson didn't jive with that interpretation (and nor did Shakespeare!).

 

I played Iago once years ago. It's a bloody delight of a role to take on - scene chewing and audience ingratiating, and some lovely slimy scenes to work within. Remains a career highlight.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

He tells us straight up that it's because he was overlooked for his promotion, and also has a quick throwaway that he thinks Othello has been having sex with his wife, Emilia ...

 

I mean, yeah...that's what the text says, but that's never felt legitimate to me--especially the line about Emilia--which is completely off base. Why would he just assume that? Iago tells us a lot of things, but I think that most of the time he's lying to us/himself. In my humble (non-expert) opinion, the line you quoted also disavows the idea that it was just for a promotion. If that were the case, or if it were as simple as that, he'd just say so. Why not just say, "I didn't like that he got promoted over me. Fuck that guy?" It's too simple. Too boring, And Iago is anything but simple and boring.

 

Instead, in my mind, the final lines of that play set up a mystery that can never and will never be solved. A play that will never be performed. Killing Othello is great for him and all, but his vow of silence is how he "wins." Words--spoken or unspoken--are powerful. And by keeping his lips sealed, he retains a power that even death can't wrest from him.

 

At least, that's how I feel about it. I'm probably dead wrong.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

I mean, yeah...that's what the text says, but that's never felt legitimate to me--especially the line about Emilia--which is completely off base. Why would he just assume that? Iago tells us a lot of things, but I think that most of the time he's lying to us/himself. In my humble (non-expert) opinion, the line you quoted also disavows the idea that it was just for a promotion. If that were the case, or if it were as simple as that, he'd just say so. Why not just say, "I didn't like that he got promoted over me. Fuck that guy?" It's too simple. Too boring, And Iago is anything but simple and boring.

 

Instead, in my mind, the final lines of that play set up a mystery that can never and will never be solved. A play that will never be performed. Killing Othello is great for him and all, but his vow of silence is how he "wins." Words--spoken or unspoken--are powerful. And by keeping his lips sealed, he retains a power that even death can't wrest from him.

 

At least, that's how I feel about it. I'm probably dead wrong.

 

No, you're not wrong at all about the silence. Iago absolutely wins in the end. I always liked Welles' film adaptation that showed Iago being hauled up the side of the castle in a tiny cage, presumably to starve to death for his treason. The film started that way, then flashed back to the reason he's in the cage.

 

One thing I think you're maybe a little off about is the point about presumed subtext: there's no subtext in Shakespeare. We can interpret any way we like, but ultimately the characters tell us what they'll do and why they'll do it, and anything else is guesswork. From what we can glean, Iago has an unhappy marriage, an unfulfilling military career, has been passed up by an "arithmetician" in Cassio, and has seen his boss's focus go from war to women. He's lashing out at the injustice of the world in front of him, and uses Roderigo as his agent of chaos. Because, when he is told that he will now be Othello's lieutenant after Cassio is brought down, and says "I am your own forever", if his whole deal was the promotion, he could stop there, and there's no need for Desi to die. But he carries it on to its worst conclusion, because he's the kind of man who wants to see the world burn (insert Michael Caine gif)...