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AlmostAGhost

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I didn't catch if it's purely Back to School or just general coming of age.

Because not back to school, but coming of age would include something like The Bicycle Thieves or Valerie and Her Week of Wonders (I'll just assume now that Grudlian has seen the latter and doesn't like it).  It's been so long that I don't recall where Amarcord falls.  More recently We are the Best! was delightful.  And I've seen Coppola's Rumblefish but not The Outsiders (both are probably redundant with Rebel without a Cause though).

ETA: though a little bit younger in terms of coming of age stuff, Miyazaki did a good number of coming of age films (though it'd probably make sense to save that for an animation series).

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25 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

I guess it depends on the framing.  It sounded like the pivot away from doing the list still sounded like, "what we'd like to put on the list."  Which then is a, "what list?," because as of right now, it sounds like "replacement for the AFI top 100 list," which gets back to grudlian's point of, kind of weird to talk about foreign films for the AFI list, since the AFI list is, well, it is what it is.

I suppose there is a framing that makes the progression make sense*, but at the moment, it still feels like it highlights the flaw in the original conceit of using the AFI list as the marker (too restrictive, too American-centric).

*: In terms of progression it might make sense to work up to a more international list, such as The Sight & Sound (or the top 100 from TSPDT) in something like a hypothetical season 3 (or if they're doing the Sight & Sound list, the season timed with the expected 2022 update).

Yea maybe, but I took it as more similar to Amy's other podcast The Canon, and they will decide if something is worthy of inclusion just of a vague 'great list'. They have found a lot of things for this via the AFI list, and now time to diversify.

I guess we'll know after the first ep when they conclude their thoughts on Mean Girls. 

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1 hour ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Yea maybe, but I took it as more similar to Amy's other podcast The Canon, and they will decide if something is worthy of inclusion just of a vague 'great list'. They have found a lot of things for this via the AFI list, and now time to diversify.

I guess we'll know after the first ep when they conclude their thoughts on Mean Girls. 

Based on the way this was framed in the episode, it very much felt like removing 50 to fit 50 different movies. That's fine although I still disagree with kicking off an arbitrary number of movies. If someone thinks 50 (or more) of the movies aren't worthy, fine.

But I've disagreed with a lot of ideas the podcast has presented like "one movie per director" or "needs (more/less) of a genre". I think that violates the purpose of the list but that's a discussion we've all had multiple times here. So, maybe we don't need to get into it again.

If they completely move away from the AFI list (which is fine with me for a number of reasons), then this new season is fine. The show has changed purposes and outgrown the AFI. Cool. But I'm wary about this going into it because sounds like it's just a vaguely themed "pick a movie and talk about it" podcast. As much as I like Paul and Amy, I'm unlikely to stick around for that.

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1 minute ago, grudlian. said:

Based on the way this was framed in the episode, it very much felt like removing 50 to fit 50 different movies. That's fine although I still disagree with kicking off an arbitrary number of movies. If someone thinks 50 (or more) of the movies aren't worthy, fine.

But I've disagreed with a lot of ideas the podcast has presented like "one movie per director" or "needs (more/less) of a genre". I think that violates the purpose of the list but that's a discussion we've all had multiple times here. So, maybe we don't need to get into it again.

If they completely move away from the AFI list (which is fine with me for a number of reasons), then this new season is fine. The show has changed purposes and outgrown the AFI. Cool. But I'm wary about this going into it because sounds like it's just a vaguely themed "pick a movie and talk about it" podcast. As much as I like Paul and Amy, I'm unlikely to stick around for that.

I was worried about that too and even told Paul about it; he responded that he thought the DNA of having a 'great' movie every week would still be there. That was my hope for season 2.

My concern was they'd just be doing like, say, House Party on the regular. I wouldn't stick for that either. But these seem all borderline notable and worth taking a closer look. House Party shouldn't. 400 Blows? Mean Girls? Those are worth a re-consideration for a new more modern pool of 'great' movies.

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1 hour ago, AlmostAGhost said:

But these seem all borderline notable and worth taking a closer look. House Party shouldn't. 400 Blows? Mean Girls? Those are worth a re-consideration for a new more modern pool of 'great' movies.

"Re-consideration" for The 400 Blows? Um, that is Truffaut's debut film and one of the movies that kicked off the French New Wave.  And on the BFI Sight & Sound polls, for the 2012, it landed at 39 on the critic's poll and 13th on the director's poll (people give more credence to the critic's poll).  It's generally pretty well acclaimed (and yes, there's at least one Simpson's clip of it - and if my recollection is correct at least a second one that is a visual homage in the episode where Bart played hookie).

Unless you meant reconsideration that it doesn't deserve that acclaim.

(Ftr, I'm not as big on the French New Wave as other people and it's been 20 years since I saw this one, but seeing it next to Mean Girls for "needing reconsideration"... like I said, unless you meant in the other direction...)

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It would be funny if at some point they listed Breathless, but meant the American remake with Richard Gere though.

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4 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

And on the BFI Sight & Sound polls, for the 2012, it landed at 39 on the critic's poll and 13th on the director's poll

This does lead into the point of a framing where this shift of structure does make sense, and is not entirely unwelcomed.  So, from one angle, I have felt that framing the movies as whether they belong on some list often distracts from talking about the movie itself.

Another aspect is a point someone brought up during The Searchers, which is, one downside of lists like these is it sometimes makes it seem like what some of these movies were doing was singular.  The phrase, I believe they said was, there was a series of "semi-woke westerns" made around that era, including a few from John Ford.  So, picking a few movies at a time that are affected by or are even directly in conversation with each other does seem like a useful framing to get "perspective" of where something might belong.  There's at least two ways to go about that, either vaguely similar movies over decades to see how things change from time to time or a number from a similar point of time to break down differences and similarities of what people were concerned with at that point.  This list looks more like the former.  At the moment, I don't have a strong opinion on that.

And then the last component, let's say they should do another list that includes more international films - they just spent 2 years going through one list.  That can feel a bit much as a project to do again.  If they were to do something like the Sight & Sound poll/list, they've already done 26 of the movies from doing the AFI list.  As they do these smaller groupings, if they work some movies from such a list, which would be expected, (such as The 400 Blows), then when they do get to doing a list again, the number of films on that list are reduced, so less of a commitment.

Granted, as they do start to vary on some of these themes, I would expect I might feel even less of a need to follow every single movie than what I was already currently failing to do.

Just my initial 2 cents.

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4 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

"Re-consideration" for The 400 Blows? Um, that is Truffaut's debut film and one of the movies that kicked off the French New Wave.  And on the BFI Sight & Sound polls, for the 2012, it landed at 39 on the critic's poll and 13th on the director's poll (people give more credence to the critic's poll).  It's generally pretty well acclaimed (and yes, there's at least one Simpson's clip of it - and if my recollection is correct at least one visual homage in the episode where Bart played hookie).

Unless you meant reconsideration that it doesn't deserve that acclaim.

(Ftr, I'm not as big on the French New Wave as other people and it's been 20 years since I saw this one, but seeing it next to Mean Girls for "needing reconsideration"... like I said, unless you meant in the other direction...)

Uhh no, neither of those, I just meant 'reconsider' as in the same way we reconsidered all 100 of the AFI movies. Wasn't that one of the points of the last 100 weeks?

And turns out, they only thought like half of them were still great, so it's worth doing.

I'm sure 400 Blows will come out positively, but it's still worth taking a look through new, modern eyes. 

And your automatic shrug to Mean Girls is why it should be looked at and I think the point of season 2. Let's also look for movies that aren't traditionally filling out the role of 'greatness', and see before we decide? Maybe there's room for new definitions. Mean Girls is very popular, influential, made into a musical, etc. Maybe it satisfies, maybe it doesn't, worth a discussion. Why is it not an equal to 400 Blows? Who says? Break down those traditional definitions.

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perhaps i'm a hypocrite for not defending House Party in the same way as Mean Girls, i dunno. 

still if you aren't happy with the movie choices that's fine too, i'm not trying to argue that. i think they slot in nicely with the point of Unspooled myself, and expand our palette a bit too, at least this first batch does.

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4 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

perhaps i'm a hypocrite for not defending House Party in the same way as Mean Girls, i dunno. 

I don't think House Party has had quite the same staying power, but maybe that's just me.

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21 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

AndÔĽŅ ÔĽŅyour automatic shrug to Mean Girls is why it should be looked at and I think the point of season 2. Let's also look for movies that aren't traditionally filling out the role of 'greatness', and see before we decide? Maybe there's room for new definitions. Mean Girls is very popular, influential, made into a musical, etc. Maybe it satisfies, maybe it doesn't, worth a discussion. Why is it not an equal to 400 Blows? Who says? Break down those traditional definitions.

I don't know what you took as a shrug to Mean Girls (though possibly I don't know what you mean by "shrug"). I took the "reconsideration" of Mean Girls to be used the same way as Amy does with Clueless and the back to school genre as a whole - doesn't get a lot of critical acclaim (well, critically well received/enjoyed, but not critically valued as high art or what-have-you), maybe we should reconsider that/etc. 

Listing The 400 Blows next to it gives the impression that it needs reconsideration the same way. And generally speaking, I don't think The 400 Blows is in want of critical respect (in terms of best of lists).

Like, I'm wasn't arguing the movie selection, just your choice of phrasing because it made what you were trying to convey unclear and confusing to me. 

 

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12 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

I don't know what you took as a shrug to Mean Girls (though possibly I don't know what you mean by "shrug").

I read it as, you didn't like I put it and 400 Blows together, so I took you dismissing one and not the other.

Quote

And generally speaking, I don't think The 400 Blows is in want of critical respect (in terms of best of lists).

Well now I'm curious what you think we were doing for the last two years? 

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Assuming they stick to the schedule mentioned at the end of the episode:

October 8 - Frankenstein (1932)
October 15 - The Babadook
October 22 - Night of the Living Dead (1968)
October 29 - Ganja & Hess
November 5 - Listener Choice

 

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I've never even heard of Ganja & Hess. It looks really interesting. Excited to check that one out. 

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1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

I've never even heard of Ganja & Hess. It looks really interesting. Excited to check that one out. 

yea i just learned of it a few weeks ago when i saw this other obscure film and i was looking up info about one of the actors and he was mostly known for Ganja & Hess. stoked for that too

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21 hours ago, grudlian. said:

I've never even heard of Ganja & Hess. It looks really interesting. Excited to check that one out. 

It's been a year or so since I've seen it, but was meaning to rewatch this month. 

My recollection is it's a little rough/incomplete (due to the rushed shooting time) and surreal. I suspect it's not going to be your thing.

Not saying you won't surprise me, but that is where my suspicions lie.

ETA: I do like it based on my memory, both of those attributes disproportionately appeal to me. 

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I thought someone else here had also watched the documentary Horror Noire last year. Ganja & Hess was obviously mentioned in that (and Spike Lee did a remake of it a few years ago).

I'm not saying it's necessarily a well known movie, but I thought the things that cause it to be actually "heard of" had permeated in here.

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2 hours ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

It's been a year or so since I've seen it, but was meaning to rewatch this month. 

My recollection is it's a little rough/incomplete (due to the rushed shooting time) and surreal. I suspect it's not going to be your thing.

Not saying you won't surprise me, but that is where my suspicions lie.

ETA: I do like it based on my memory, both of those attributes disproportionately appeal to me. 

Yeah, the picture on the imdb app definitely lead me to think it's exactly how your describing it. But the plot synopsis got me interested even if I expect it to feel like the plot will be meandering.

I haven't watched Da Sweet Blood Of Jesus yet but I also wasn't aware it was a remake either. 

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With the horror mini-set finished, next week's movie is:

Raising Arizona

The theme is ‚Äėeffed up families‚Äô!

I guess Paul & Amy are announcing the rest of the next series on twitch or something.  Will update when it's revealed

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Here are the upcoming films for "Fucked Up Families" #Kinspooled

1. Raising Arizona

2. Tokyo Story

3. Eve's Bayou

4. The Royal Tennenbaums

5. Guess Who's Coming To Dinner

6. The Farewell

7. Home Alone 

8. fan vote #Kinspooled choice

 

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