Musical Mondays Week 58 The Last Five Years

[taylor anne photo 11311]

24 minutes ago, EvRobert said:

I think it does though. Like taylor said above, Cathy does nothing to Jeremy Jordan but be faithful, not give him "space" and not go to his parties. He goes to ONE performance of hers in Ohio and then leaves early to go to another "fucking party". He's just an awful person who can't resist temptation. 

Actually,  I don't even think that it isn't that he can't resist temptation. If you look at a song like Shiska Goddess, it looks like he is the kind of person that doesn't like being told he can't do something. His mother wants him to date a Jewish girl, so he dates any and all kinds of Gentile girls. I don't think success "made" him cheat, I think he would have cheated regardless of his success, sooner or later, because he is told (by society) that he isn't supposed to. that is why I think he is an awful person. 

He didn't even stay for that one performance in Ohio! During that song she was singing about how she thinks he'll like the show and that he's laughing and she's smiling so they'll be okay because he went there for her, but then he says oh actually I can't stay tonight and she's like YOU MOTHERFUCKER.

I completely agree that I think regardless of success he is not a good dude. Resisting Temptation didn't seem to be about how all the women noticed him now that he was successful, it was about how all the women noticed him now that he was married. So it was like once that wedding happened for him he was like oh gdi what did I do.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Whoops double post nothing to see here.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

23 hours ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Right, but she still thinks he's awesome at the end.  He's saying goodbye for good, and she's just saying goodbye for now.  It should be the other way around if there was any recognition that his behavior was shitty.  He suffers no consequences.  She loves him more and more, then he breaks up by letter, walks away, and that's that. 

I took all the criticism of him as us being more woke, not because the movie presented him that way.  My read was that it's basically just an out-dated form of romance, the patronizing stuff that we as a society have quickly realized is problematic, but at the time, men (and women) thought was OK.

That last song though was Jamie at the end and Cathy at the beginning so it doesn't actually align with how Cathy was also feeling. I think obviously she was blind sided by the whole endeavor but we don't see the Cathy that is at that same spot as Jamie is in the timeline so it throws everything off. In fact I took that part to be like Jamie was singing goodbye to the Cathy he had actually fallen in love with because that was the woman he had been missing, but this memory of her then wasn't going to change his mind about staying because she wasn't that woman anymore.

This movie was made in 2014 (15?) so I kinda disagree with you that it was a product of its time. The play sure because it was made in the early 2000s and supposedly starts this romance in the 90s, but this movie could've adjusted things for creative license about the times to really play that this was a true romance that fell apart for no other reason than they just weren't a good match, but they didn't. And I think if I had even seen this 5 years ago I would've felt the same way about Jamie because after everything he still is the one who cheats on her with MULTIPLE women and yells constantly at Cathy for not being what he wants her to be, and that shit didn't fly with me even back then. I might have excused the party fight because still part of me is like idk it's just a party so like who really cares, but then the other part of me is like no she's just supposed to go and watch him be fawned over by people who can't even be bothered to remember his wife's name so she's stuck alone at the bar where she recognizes she drinks too much for the wrong reasons. Fuck that let her stay home!

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

16 minutes ago, taylorannephoto said:

He didn't even stay for that one performance in Ohio! During that song she was singing about how she thinks he'll like the show and that he's laughing and she's smiling so they'll be okay because he went there for her, but then he says oh actually I can't stay tonight and she's like YOU MOTHERFUCKER.

I completely agree that I think regardless of success he is not a good dude. Resisting Temptation didn't seem to be about how all the women noticed him now that he was successful, it was about how all the women noticed him now that he was married. So it was like once that wedding happened for him he was like oh gdi what did I do.

I commented during one viewing that he was Glenn from The Wedding Singer.  Glenn cheated before the marriage and would have cheated after.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

So, here's a different take on this.  I wish I could figure out a Jacob's Ladder scenario for this without it involving Cathy's suicide on getting the letter but I can't.  So I won't.

I did some reading on the Schmuel song.  The name Schmuel means "Asked of God".  (I assume this means God is behind the magic clock.)  One site had lots of theories on the song's meaning.  The one I like best is that Schmuel, when he starts making the dress, goes back in time 41 years and marries the girl he'd made the dress for.  What if Cathy is doing the same?  She got the letter then is going back (without realizing it) to the beginning where she has a chance to do things differently?  I assume she would still be in love with Jamie but maybe she could head off his worst tendencies and make him a better man and partner.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Cinco DeNio
Added a link

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

OTOH, the main reason I had trouble with the Schmuel Song is the Russia/Ukraine connections seem way too esoteric for trying to spin a fable for Cathy to learn from.  Other fables, like any one of Aesop's, Tolstoy's Martin the Tailor, The Cobbler and the Elves, are more generic so people can relate where they are.  Trying to get Cathy to take charge of her life by relating her to a MALE tailor in Klimovich?!?  That seems to be one more way where he is out of touch with Cathy's needs, wants and desires.  I love the song and Jeremy Jordan's performance but still...

[tomspanks 9039]

I'm late to the party, but it took me 3 days to get through this movie!  It felt soooo long; I couldn't believe it was only 90-ish minutes.  And I'm so glad I read about the timeline/structure of the movie - otherwise I would've been so confused.  Even with knowing the timeline gimmick, I was confused at times about what was going on and when.  

I didn't think the 2 leads had a lot of chemistry on screen - but I don't know how much of that is due to the songs feeling so flat.  There isn't a hook I can recall from the soundtrack.  Oh, in the beginning of the movie, I paused on the closeup of the Dear Cathy letter and the contents made me cringe - and this guy is supposed to be a writer?  But, but, later, we find out the letter is the lyrics to a song!  Unghhhhh, no thanks.  However, I did like the orchestration of the music - very cello/bass heavy.

And finally, I don't understand why the guy couldn't go to parties by himself?  Pull up your grownup panties (and boy did we see a lot of his underwear) and stop dragging your wife to places against her wishes!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

3 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

I didn't think the 2 leads had a lot of chemistry on screen - but I don't know how much of that is due to the songs feeling so flat.  There isn't a hook I can recall from the soundtrack.  Oh, in the beginning of the movie, I paused on the closeup of the Dear Cathy letter and the contents made me cringe - and this guy is supposed to be a writer?  But, but, later, we find out the letter is the lyrics to a song!  Unghhhhh, no thanks.  However, I did like the orchestration of the music - very cello/bass heavy.

I still stand by my statement that Jeremy Jordan has zero charm. (Sorry Sara)

I already forgot the lyrics to his song as he was writing, so what did the letter say?

[tomspanks 9039]

Just now, taylorannephoto said:

I still stand by my statement that Jeremy Jordan has zero charm. (Sorry Sara)

I already forgot the lyrics to his song as he was writing, so what did the letter say?

Here you go!  I took a ss. 

I hope she burns it.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

2 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

Here you go!  I took a ss. 

I hope she burns it.

Oh god yeah this definitely brings the memory of him singing it all back.

I hate this guy.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

God I'm still so mad at him!

WHO THE FUCK WRITES A LETTER TO DIVORCE YOUR WIFE?!

[grudlian. 4725]

2 minutes ago, taylorannephoto said:

God I'm still so mad at him!

WHO THE FUCK WRITES A LETTER TO DIVORCE YOUR WIFE?!

Yeah. Didn't he have her number to text her?

[taylor anne photo 11311]

1 minute ago, grudlian. said:

Yeah. Didn't he have her number to text her?

I would've even taken a phone call over that shit tbh.

Also, he said he closed the bank account. Does this mean that he is cutting her off? So she's just left penniless cause clearly we all know she really couldn't get a job except the camp in Ohio so this motherfucker just writes her a letter saying oh I'm leaving and btw you have no money. I hope she gets some sweet sweet alimony.

[tomspanks 9039]

12 minutes ago, taylorannephoto said:

I hate this guy.

He was not very likable, that's for sure.  His worst offense - to me - was when he stopped suddenly in the bike lane without a hand signal.  Obviously he's satan.

[grudlian. 4725]

8 minutes ago, taylorannephoto said:

I would've even taken a phone call over that shit tbh.

Also, he said he closed the bank account. Does this mean that he is cutting her off? So she's just left penniless cause clearly we all know she really couldn't get a job except the camp in Ohio so this motherfucker just writes her a letter saying oh I'm leaving and btw you have no money. I hope she gets some sweet sweet alimony.

Just remember: this was based on the author's life.

[tomspanks 9039]

Oh and speaking of his letter, that reminds me of another thing that annoyed me about him.  In Cathy's case, we could literally see her talent on screen as an actress, but in that guy's case, he's the one who tells us he's gonna be the next Philip Roth or something and all we had to go by was that divorce letter and his Shmuel story?  During the Shmuel song, btw, I'm pretty sure I blacked out and was brought to consciousness only when he turned on the Christmas lights.  

[taylor anne photo 11311]

1 minute ago, tomspanks said:

Oh and speaking of his letter, that reminds me of another thing that annoyed me about him.  In Cathy's case, we could literally see her talent on screen as an actress, but in that guy's case, he's the one who tells us he's gonna be the next Philip Roth or something and all we had to go by was that divorce letter and his Shmuel story?  During the Shmuel song, btw, I'm pretty sure I blacked out and was brought to consciousness only when he turned on the Christmas lights.  

I laughed out loud when Cathy was like, "Oh it was so long," cause I was literally thinking the same thing.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

[SaraK 1980]

1 hour ago, taylorannephoto said:

I still stand by my statement that Jeremy Jordan has zero charm. (Sorry Sara)

 

Why do I bother coming here. 

(Also, I feel bad that I don't have more to contribute other than my crush on an actor. But I have been having a problem remembering my opinions about this movie because I made the mistake of watching that Rent:Live thing on Sunday. I have had Rent opinions since, so this movie is right out of my head. )

 

 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

5 minutes ago, SaraK said:

Why do I bother coming here. 

(Also, I feel bad that I don't have more to contribute other than my crush on an actor. But I have been having a problem remembering my opinions about this movie because I made the mistake of watching that Rent:Live thing on Sunday. I have had Rent opinions since, so this movie is right out of my head. )

 

 

Subsitute "us" for "me".

[tomspanks 9039]

3 hours ago, tomspanks said:

There isn't a hook I can recall from the soundtrack. 

Wait, I'm such a Jamie.  I lied, I do remember a hook, from "Nobody Needs to Know."  But that's because it's used at the end of the Hamilton song "Say No to This" and I've listened to that soundtrack too many times.

LMM says:

Some quotes in the show are really specific to a moment; we quote Jason Robert Brown’s musical The Last Five Years at the end of Hamilton’s affair with Maria Reynolds; he sings, “Nobody needs to know,” and Jason wrote the ultimate infidelity jam called “Nobody Needs to Know.” The moment I had the idea, I called Jason and was like, “Ahhhhh, I need to make this reference!”

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

23 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

Wait, I'm such a Jamie.  I lied, I do remember a hook, from "Nobody Needs to Know."  But that's because it's used at the end of the Hamilton song "Say No to This" and I've listened to that soundtrack too many times.

LMM says:

You just won my C&O of the week

*Imagine the You Win song plays here*

[grudlian. 4725]

2 hours ago, tomspanks said:

Oh and speaking of his letter, that reminds me of another thing that annoyed me about him.  In Cathy's case, we could literally see her talent on screen as an actress, but in that guy's case, he's the one who tells us he's gonna be the next Philip Roth or something and all we had to go by was that divorce letter and his Shmuel story?  During the Shmuel song, btw, I'm pretty sure I blacked out and was brought to consciousness only when he turned on the Christmas lights.  

I wonder how much of this is that it's sometimes harder to show someone be a great writer and you just have to tell us.

I can kind of forgive the Shmuel story because he's just retelling another story spur of the moment to his fiance. I'm sure good authors can't always make up parables relevant to their lives on the spot.

As for the letter, I'd say that was probably just a prop master being cute by putting the break up lyrics as the letter. But we could say a good writer doesn't necessarily mean they are good at writing break up letters which are two different types of writing.

23 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

Wait, I'm such a Jamie.  I lied, I do remember a hook, from "Nobody Needs to Know."  But that's because it's used at the end of the Hamilton song "Say No to This" and I've listened to that soundtrack too many times.

LMM says:

 

 

Oh man, I noticed this and thought it was too similar to be a coincidence. Then I forgot to look it up. 

[tomspanks 9039]

3 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I wonder how much of this is that it's sometimes harder to show someone be a great writer and you just have to tell us.

That's what I mean, it doesn't translate well.

Also, I just don't like that song.

3 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

Oh man, I noticed this and thought it was too similar to be a coincidence. Then I forgot to look it up. 

Damn it, I forgot to add that he said: "you realize that "know" is a great twist/ending to a song about not saying "no."

[grudlian. 4725]

1 hour ago, tomspanks said:

That's what I mean, it doesn't translate well.

Also, I just don't like that song.

Damn it, I forgot to add that he said: "you realize that "know" is a great twist/ending to a song about not saying "no."

I think the are probably ways to do it. Like have the Schmuel story be well told or whatever. Or maybe show him struggle to write the perfect phrase. But that takes being a great writer (not to slam the author of this) to convey that.