BONUS: 2019 Oscars

[grudlian. 4725]

53 minutes ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

Some of what I've read recently (and this is anecdotal Twitter speculation, so take it with a grain of salt) is that there were basically two camps in the Oscar voting: the older voters who preferred Green Book and Bohemian Rhapsody, and the younger voters who favored Roma and Black Panther. This kind of voting split has existed since the Academy membership was expanded, but this year there wasn't anything that both groups could kind of get behind, like The Shape of Water or Moonlight/La La Land. A Star Is Born might have actually managed it, but they botched their campaign and didn't start trying until it was too late. So you saw the weird bifurcated awards, given about equally to both groups of movies.

So yeah, national politics is reflected in the Oscars as well, in a slightly different form.

As someone who doesn't follow Oscar voting rules, this and what they speculate in the episode makes sense to me. I'm still not sure how Bohemian Rhapsody got this far though.

At least Green Book is competently made and well acted. Bohemian Rhapsody is very poorly acted (yes, even Rami Malek) except for the Live Aid section which is fantastic. It gets a lot of crap for being generic but generic isn't its main problem since it's so awfully made. A Star Is Born is generic in that it's a remake of a remake of a remake but it's well done.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

I'm still not sure how Bohemian Rhapsody got this far though.

That still seems like a bizarre mass hypnotism to me. It opened to middling reviews and had a major controversy because of the director, which normally means you don't get anywhere close to Best Picture. Sure, it made a lot of money, but so do Transformers movies.

With Green Book I at least understand that it's a type of movie the Academy has historically favored.

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

18 hours ago, grudlian. said:

As much as I find Green Book to be not worthy of praise, it's still mildly enjoyable. At least the acting is genuinely great. It's just misguided by white/straight privilege. So, it's bad in that aspect but it's not horribly made or anything. Especially when you add in this Rashomon-esque Dr. Shirley and his family giving opposite descriptions of the relationship with no real reason to lie (except Shirley himself said "friendly" not "friend" and I can acknowledge he might have felt uncomfortable saying on record their relationship was strictly professional). So, I have slightly more mixed feelings about it.

 

I respectfully disagree on this. I see Green Book as not just tone deaf, but actively rewriting history in a way that perpetuates stereotypes, and sees Dr. Shirley as less than a fully-developed and nuanced person beyond a caricature. Ali's acting was great, but I'm forever soured on Viggo Mortensen. I don't think he did a great job. I don't think it was a stretch to play a loud, Italian thug. To say nothing of the Hollywood Reporter round table that was making the rounds. This whole project was a mess. Dr. Shirley actively turned down the opportunity in taking part in the movie during his lifetime. It's more than just a bunch of oafs making a tone-deaf movie. I'm not going to get down on anyone for finding it enjoyable, but for me, its problems outweigh its pleasures. 

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

1 hour ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

Ali's acting was great, but I'm forever soured on Viggo Mortensen. I don't think he did a great job. I don't think it was a stretch to play a loud, Italian thug.

I don't know, I think when people criticize Mortensen they are really criticizing the character as written more than the actor's performance. Personally, I think he did a great job playing a character who is written as a loud Italian thug; I don't think I've ever seen him play a character like that before. That doesn't mean I like that his character is given so much of the movie's focus, but that's a different question.

[grudlian. 4725]

3 hours ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

I respectfully disagree on this. I see Green Book as not just tone deaf, but actively rewriting history in a way that perpetuates stereotypes, and sees Dr. Shirley as less than a fully-developed and nuanced person beyond a caricature. Ali's acting was great, but I'm forever soured on Viggo Mortensen. I don't think he did a great job. I don't think it was a stretch to play a loud, Italian thug. To say nothing of the Hollywood Reporter round table that was making the rounds. This whole project was a mess. Dr. Shirley actively turned down the opportunity in taking part in the movie during his lifetime. It's more than just a bunch of oafs making a tone-deaf movie. I'm not going to get down on anyone for finding it enjoyable, but for me, its problems outweigh its pleasures. 

That's fair. I wasn't aware Dr. Shirley was against making a movie about it. That definitely is going to make me rethink some stuff. 

I still think Viggo did a great job regardless of if it's a stretch to play the role. I see how "loud Italian thug" traditionally gets played in movies and Viggo had way more nuance to it even compared to people in the same movie. I don't think Mahershala Ali was stretching any more than Viggo was for his performance.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

8 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

That's fair. I wasn't aware Dr. Shirley was against making a movie about it. That definitely is going to make me rethink some stuff. 

The records differ on this. Vallelonga (and presumably his father) claim that Shirley was against making a movie while he was alive, but gave his blessing for one to be made after his death.

I have no idea what's true.

On the complaints about loud Italian stereotypes, well . . . the movie is written by Tony Lip's own son. He might not know that much about Don Shirley, but he probably does know what his own father was like. Maybe he really did talk like that. I probably wouldn't accuse Scorsese of stereotyping if he puts "loud Italians" in his own movies. Presumably he's drawing from experience there.

[bleary 333]

42 minutes ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

On the complaints about loud Italian stereotypes, well . . . the movie is written by Tony Lip's own son. He might not know that much about Don Shirley, but he probably does know what his own father was like. Maybe he really did talk like that. I probably wouldn't accuse Scorsese of stereotyping if he puts "loud Italians" in his own movies. Presumably he's drawing from experience there.

The "my father really was a dumb stereotype" defense. 

In all seriousness though, that performance doesn't work at all for me.  And sure, maybe it's the character's fault more than the actor, but I'm not about to laud Viggo for it.  I feel like unfortunately, the academy does reward these situations, where some aspect of the filmmaking takes a film from complete shitshow to merely mediocre (cf. Bohemian Rhapsody's film editing, Christopher Plummer's nomination for All the Money in the World, etc.).  Viggo was not able to make me relate to, or even care about this character in the slightest.  Perhaps due to the writing, it was near impossible for any actor to do so, but that doesn't make for something impressive in my opinion.  (However, I don't hold this failure against Viggo.  I still would have taken his performance in Captain Fantastic two years ago over Casey Affleck, and I thought he was great in Eastern Promises too, as well as the LOTR series of course.)

[taylor anne photo 11311]

2 minutes ago, bleary said:

 I still would have taken his performance in Captain Fantastic two years ago over Casey Affleck, and I thought he was great in Eastern Promises too, as well as the LOTR series of course.

Lbr we all would've taken any performance over Casey Affleck that year, but truly Viggo was my best actor pick in that movie and I'm still mad it didn't get as recognized as it deserved.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

5 minutes ago, bleary said:

The "my father really was a dumb stereotype" defense. 

I mean, maybe he was!

My personal example is that when I first saw My Big Fat Greek Wedding, I found the characters way over the top and ridiculous. Whose family acts like this? No one! Then a few years later I met the woman who would become my wife, who comes from a Greek family, and now I know . . . it's not that ridiculous. It's exaggerated for comic effect, for sure, but there is definitely a realistic basis for those characters. I just hadn't experienced it. Similarly, I think there are plenty of real Italian guys who act like that.

Personally, Viggo did pull me in to liking his character, despite the iffy writing. It's not one of my top 5 male performances or anything, but I thought he was good. (Also, yes, he should have won for Eastern Promises.)

[grudlian. 4725]

45 minutes ago, bleary said:

The "my father really was a dumb stereotype" defense. 

Well, his whole family. They are as portrayed as racist, Italian stereotypes. The father only maybe comes across as better because we spend enough time with him to see his "transformation." 

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

I'll give a little on the Italian stereotype role for Viggo's performance. I agree that he did way better in Captain Fantastic. and I've generally been fine with his work. I'm soured on him not so much for this role, and the way he portrayed it, but for his whole appearance on the Hollywood Reporter round table. 

It's possible Dr. Shirley agreed to having a movie made about him post-mortem. I've only read about him refusing it while he was alive. 

[tomspanks 9039]

Did you guys anything about the Oscars this year?  

One of my favorite moments was when Olivia Colman won best actress.  Ngl I got teary eyed even before she started speaking.  

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

16 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

Did you guys anything about the Oscars this year?  

One of my favorite moments was when Olivia Colman won best actress.  Ngl I got teary eyed even before she started speaking.  

Definitely the best speech of the night.

I also liked Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga's performance. Some people found it weird and uncomfortable, but that is also why I liked it.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

6 hours ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

I'll give a little on the Italian stereotype role for Viggo's performance. I agree that he did way better in Captain Fantastic. and I've generally been fine with his work. I'm soured on him not so much for this role, and the way he portrayed it, but for his whole appearance on the Hollywood Reporter round table. 

I might also have to soften a little on saying Viggo "should" have won for Eastern Promises, because that was the year Daniel Day-Lewis won for There Will Be Blood. That's a tough year to be up for Best Actor.

(I still woulda voted for Viggo though.)

[grudlian. 4725]

2 hours ago, tomspanks said:

Did you guys anything about the Oscars this year?  

One of my favorite moments was when Olivia Colman won best actress.  Ngl I got teary eyed even before she started speaking.  

I don't actually ever watch the ceremony because I hate award shows. I just check the results.

I did watch Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper perform on youtube though because I love that song. That was really nice.

[tomspanks 9039]

I loved the Shallow segment too!  I love the song to begin with and I loved that it looked nothing like the rest of the Oscars.  

[Cam Bert 8145]

I bought the soundtrack to A Star is Born immediately after watching the movie. I've also been pushing it on people I know. 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Shallow was definitely a big highlight of the night! I also loved that Melissa McCarthy and Brian Tyree Henry presented the costume award decked out in exaggerated versions of what was nominated. Made everyone at the party I was at laugh hysterically. Plus seeing Ruth Carter in her own royal gloriousness win and walk up with that hell of a dress was a good cherry on that moment.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

OH OH! AND KRYSTEN RITTER OF COURSE! I mentioned that before but I'm still over the moon excited for her and Adam and I am shocked that not more places are like omg she revealed she's pregnant on the red carpet of the Oscars! But I guess that's what happens when you're surrounded by literally every other hella famous person in the world for the night lol.