EPISODE 113 — Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze: LIVE!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

"Raphael! He's the leader of the group!" -Partners in Kryme, "Turtle Power"

 

 

A couple people have mentioned this song already. I've read a couple things that Partners in Kryme have said elsewhere, and I can honestly see how this mistake would get made (In the cartoon, Leonardo is clearly the leader. They even mention it in the theme song! I'll admit ignorance of the comics and whether they have an established "leader" in them.). Their basic story is that they were more or less told "Here's this movie, go write a song about it". And if you've only seen the first movie, thinking Raphael is the leader is a pretty reasonable conclusion to draw--he's the first Turtle we meet in the first movie, and in as much as there's a viewpoint or "main" turtle in both of the first two movies, Raph is it.

 

The two problems here are that 1. I find it almost impossible to believe someone wouldn't have at least known of the cartoon at the time of the first movie, and 2. There's a line (http://www.imdb.com/...?item=qt0352402) in the first movie where Raph, albeit sarcastically, refers to Leo as "A great leader".

I am the June here in this situation and I only saw the first movie once when I was a child and have very limited memory of it, and the cartoon wasn't high up on my viewing list like X-Men or Power Rangers were. So I'm purely basing my knowledge off of what this movie showed me. And this movie did not show Leo being a memorable character and showed Raph taking charge (albeit in more of a "screw you guys I'm goin over here" kinda way).

[FisterRoboto 7499]

And this movie did not show Leo being a memorable character and showed Raph taking charge (albeit in more of a "screw you guys I'm goin over here" kinda way).

That's Raph's character in the comics, too. He's like, "Fuck you guys. I'm gonna kick it with Casey Jones and do vigilante shit" a lot. But, the comics set Leo up as the leader much better, and they use that as a source of tension between Raph and Leo.

 

But it's interesting, because I wouldn't have really noticed this until someone like you, who wasn't familiar with the Turtles, pointed it out. I think, like Emptyeye said, they were banking on everyone who saw the movie at the time being familiar with the Turtles. So along with glossing past their origin story, they didn't feel like they needed to set up the dynamic between the Turtles. And 10-year-old me didn't even question it because I'd already heard this every Saturday for four years:

Splinter taught them to be Ninja teens.

Leonardo leads; Donatello does machines.

 

Raphael is cool but rude.

Michelangelo is a party dude.

Even the theme song of the cartoon sets up their dynamic, but for the movie, they just said, "Fuck it. They know."

[Cameron H. 23786]

I am the June here in this situation and I only saw the first movie once when I was a child and have very limited memory of it, and the cartoon wasn't high up on my viewing list like X-Men or Power Rangers were. So I'm purely basing my knowledge off of what this movie showed me. And this movie did not show Leo being a memorable character and showed Raph taking charge (albeit in more of a "screw you guys I'm goin over here" kinda way).

 

Yeah, I would say Raph is definitely the most independent of the four, but to identify him as the leader (as the song does*) is a mistake. Leo is supposed to be the leader, but he really drops the ball in this movie. As I am historically a Leonardo fan, I've been giving him a pass thus far, but in all fairness, I really should point out that in this movie, he really sucks at leading.

 

For instance, I really enjoyed the scene where they are slogging around the sewers looking for a new home and Raph says, "Even you could come up with a better plan than this!" Leonardo replies, "I already have!" and his great plan is...to keep slogging around in the sewers?

 

Also, there's a point in one of the fights (I think in the club) where someone does something to anger someone (I'm not looking it up) and when whomever it is they are fighting turns to engage them, Leo yells out, "It was him!" and runs away like a little bitch. Throwing your brother under the bus, huh? Leo truly is a beacon of leadership.

 

I think the only time he does anything remotely leaderly is at the club and he calls for the "Wishbone Crunch." This is when the four turtles smash their shells together and take out Shredder's second in command. I have to say, I would have really loved to be a fly on the wall when they came up with that tactic:

 

Leo: "So guys, if we're ever in a situation where we are fighting a single, unarmed opponent who isn't fighting back I'm going to call for the 'Wishbone Crunch.' This is where we'll all spin around and smash our asses into him."

 

Donnie: "Do we really need to have a name for that?"

 

Leo: "Yes. Yes we do."

 

*I have to say, after all the talk of the about it, I actually have downloaded the Partners in Kryme song. And i am seriously close to downloading a couple of songs from the Coming Out of Their Shells album. I think this movie might be making me go off the rails...

 

(help me)

 

[FisterRoboto 7499]

*I have to say, after all the talk of the song, I actually have downloaded the Partners in Kryme song. And i am seriously close to downloading a couple of songs from the Coming Out of Their Shells album. I think this movie might be making me go off the rails...

 

(help me)

Fuck. I just found out that Google Play has the whole album to stream if you subscribe (which I do).

 

If this causes irreparable harm, I'm blaming Cameron for bringing it up...

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I'm just going to leave this here and then go kill myself:

 

 

(P.S. - That April went on to do a ton of Broadway stuff and is actually a really accomplished musical actress.)

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

I'm just going to leave this here and then go kill myself:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu-uNKZYmhI

 

(P.S. - That April went on to do a ton of Broadway stuff and is actually a really accomplished musical actress.)

And I'd bet that she leaves this off of her resume. It seems like the "Troll 2" of musical productions.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

And I'd bet that she leaves this off of her resume. It seems like the "Troll 2" of musical productions.

Look at that set design. The only production I've ever seen with more gratuitous fans is Con Air.

[darkesword 83]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but one thing that always bothered me about this movie was in the end, when Shredder gets mutated by The Ooze and turns into Super Shredder, somehow his armor has also mutated. Doesn't it stand to reason that if he's being affected biologically and mutating into this beastly Super Shredder guy, it should be a Hulk situation where he outgrows his clothes? But that isn't what happens. His inorganic armor also is somehow affected by The Ooze and he ends up with all of these extra blades on his arms and shoulders. What gives?

[Maximilian 99]

I'm just going to leave this here and then go kill myself:

 

 

 

(P.S. - That April went on to do a ton of Broadway stuff and is actually a really accomplished musical actress.)

Side note the choreography for that number was done by Scott Stapp.

 

I'm glad my parents didn't love me enough to take me to an Out of their Shell performance and/or buy me the VHS.

[Joven 373]

Kinda correction.

They say that Shredder is dumped in the same place as the hideout, which doesn't seem to be the case. Shredder is dumped at a dump, the hideout is a junkyard, they're different places. (also, the part of the opening with shredder shows guys flinging stuff out of dump trucks by hand...is there a possibility that some random sanitation worker just saw a crumpled up and bloodied Shredder and thought, 'eh fuck it, into the pile, someone must have threw him away for a reason.')

 

Do the Foot own that junkyard? I'm assuming they must because they have a fairly elaborate set up with its own dojo and shit, and they'd be found out pretty quickly if they didn't pretty much own it, so are the employees of the junkyard Foot soldiers, too? How annoying it must be to actually be a member of The Foot, you sign up because "ninja criminal" would look badass on a resume, but you spend all your time at a junkyard, maybe up front as a diversion helping some guy find an alternator for a 78 chevy nova or hauling scrap metal, or you're running through the sewers trying to find giant turtles to fight, getting yelled at and beaten by everybody in any leadership position and their pets, and never actually seem to do any profitable crime. They had a good thing going at the start of the first movie, but how are they even recruiting people in the 2nd, seems way not worth it.

 

Speaking of the junkyard Foot hideout...who the fuck is this:

 

The one on the right, pointing dude, has that guy ever been in anything else? I feel like I've seen him before and its kinda bugging me.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but one thing that always bothered me about this movie was in the end, when Shredder gets mutated by The Ooze and turns into Super Shredder, somehow his armor has also mutated. Doesn't it stand to reason that if he's being affected biologically and mutating into this beastly Super Shredder guy, it should be a Hulk situation where he outgrows his clothes? But that isn't what happens. His inorganic armor also is somehow affected by The Ooze and he ends up with all of these extra blades on his arms and shoulders. What gives?

..........

[Cameron H. 23786]

I don't know if it's been brought up already, but when she uses the maxi pad to bandage his wound she doesn't use the absorbent side...

 

Sheesh!

 

[Maximilian 99]

Do the Foot own that junkyard? I'm assuming they must because they have a fairly elaborate set up with its own dojo and shit, and they'd be found out pretty quickly if they didn't pretty much own it, so are the employees of the junkyard Foot soldiers, too? How annoying it must be to actually be a member of The Foot, you sign up because "ninja criminal" would look badass on a resume, but you spend all your time at a junkyard, maybe up front as a diversion helping some guy find an alternator for a 78 chevy nova or hauling scrap metal, or you're running through the sewers trying to find giant turtles to fight, getting yelled at and beaten by everybody in any leadership position and their pets, and never actually seem to do any profitable crime. They had a good thing going at the start of the first movie, but how are they even recruiting people in the 2nd, seems way not worth it.

The thing that bothers me most about the junkyard, WHERE ARE THE DOGS?!!!! I refuse to believe that the turtles could have used their nonexistent ninja skills to sneak past the junkyard dogs.

[Cameron H. 23786]

The thing that bothers me most about the junkyard, WHERE ARE THE DOGS?!!!! I refuse to believe that the turtles could have used their nonexistent ninja skills to sneak past the junkyard dogs.

 

I agree, there's no way they got passed this guy...

 

[Entering the Bone Zone 81]

RIP, JYD

[Entering the Bone Zone 81]

FIRST - im not american,i live in europe,

BUT i have to say, what was jason thinking ranting in the beginning about 9/11??

what is your point in trying to make fun of that horrible thing?

seriously you are better than that,

there were nothing funny about that day.

 

that was a low point.

you could hear how paul tried to save the situation by steering it away from that.

 

Tragedy + time = comedy. They have mined the 9/11 truther stuff for laughs in about half a dozen episodes, this was hardly the first time. And the joke is not about the victims of 9/11, it is about the batshit insane subculture of people who use the internets as a forum for conspiracy theories and such.

[Entering the Bone Zone 81]

Even the theme song of the cartoon sets up their dynamic, but for the movie, they just said, "Fuck it. They know."

 

The real bitch of it all is that Leonardo doesn't really have a personality to speak of, even in the cartoons. Donny is the nerd, Raph is the cutup, Mikey is the bro, Leo is the... leader? The movie reducing Leo's only known character trait (aside from a love of sweet, sweet pizza pie) to a debated footnote is not its narrative high point. Only history can decide what that high point will ultimately be. I vote for the ultra hip Bogie references.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I don't know if it's been brought up already, but when she uses the maxi pad to bandage his wound she doesn't use the absorbent side...

 

Sheesh!

 

NO IT'S PRONOUNCED MEE-LA!

[Cameron H. 23786]

What impresses me (and granted, it doesn't take much), is when I watched this movie I seriously didn't think we'd have anything really to say about it. Honestly, it felt like pretty slim pickings. I figured by the time the episode was over there really wouldn't really be much left meat on the bones and we'd get about twenty posts that were variations of "The episode was great, the movie was dumb." However, not only has everyone had awesome comments about this movie, but it is currently the second highest posted upon episode thread! It's only behind Jupiter Ascending and passed The Marriage Councilor today--which for the longest time was the thread to beat. I'm not sure if that's just due to more people posting now or what, but it's pretty awesome (again, it takes very little to impress me).

 

So, in all seriousness, thank you all for all of the comments and discussions--even you jokers who don't read the thread and post the same thing over and over.

 

You all make my workweek infinitely more palatable, and I'm glad we all have this arena to geek out together. So, from me to all of you, a sincere, and sexy, round of applause.

 

[Maximilian 99]

I don't know if it's been posted but this is currently the second highest posted upon episode thread.

 

I couldn't resist.

[Auden 1809]

I've hesitated to post this because I don't want to start a, as Cameron H. puts it, forum firestorm, but most of the people here seem chill so here goes. Adam Pally's accent bits are problematic. He reveled in them too much for them to be a critical lampooning of racist accents. Thank goodness the hosts called him out on them (in a way that saved face for Pally).

 

Certain kinds of racial humor are like Mt. Everest. The first few summittings are notable because they were the firsts and shed some light on human nature. However, since more and more people have done it, climbing Everest have become an individualistic and vainglorious activity that adds nothing to the world except for frozen turds, garbage and corpses. I applaud the HDTGM crew for not heeding the "because it's there" siren call of those kinds of racial humor.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

I've hesitated to post this because I don't want to start a, as Cameron H. puts it, forum firestorm, but most of the people here seem chill so here goes. Adam Pally's accent bits are problematic. He reveled in them too much for them to be a critical lampooning of racist accents. Thank goodness the hosts called him out on them (in a way that saved face for Pally).

 

Certain kinds of racial humor are like Mt. Everest. The first few summittings are notable because they were the firsts and shed some light on human nature. However, since more and more people have done it, climbing Everest have become an individualistic and vainglorious activity that adds nothing to the world except for frozen turds, garbage and corpses. I applaud the HDTGM crew for not heeding the "because it's there" siren call of those kinds of racial humor.

Fire-um storm, perhaps? Okay, it's reaching...

[seanotron 2307]

I've hesitated to post this because I don't want to start a, as Cameron H. puts it, forum firestorm, but most of the people here seem chill so here goes. Adam Pally's accent bits are problematic. He reveled in them too much for them to be a critical lampooning of racist accents. Thank goodness the hosts called him out on them (in a way that saved face for Pally).

 

Certain kinds of racial humor are like Mt. Everest. The first few summittings are notable because they were the firsts and shed some light on human nature. However, since more and more people have done it, climbing Everest have become an individualistic and vainglorious activity that adds nothing to the world except for frozen turds, garbage and corpses. I applaud the HDTGM crew for not heeding the "because it's there" siren call of those kinds of racial humor.

 

I for sure cringed during that.

[Emptyeye 11]

I'm purely basing my knowledge off of what this movie showed me. And this movie did not show Leo being a memorable character and showed Raph taking charge (albeit in more of a "screw you guys I'm goin over here" kinda way).

 

Hey, you came to the same conclusion as the guy hired to write a song about the first movie, which is (Again) a totally reasonable one given what the first two movies show (I don't remember enough about the third, which sounds like a blessing from what people here have said). I can't blame you for that.

 

 

 

Leo is supposed to be the leader, but he really drops the ball in this movie. As I am historically a Leonardo fan, I've been giving him a pass thus far, but in all fairness, I really should point out that in this movie, he really sucks at leading.

 

As Entering the Bone Zone said (Or at least implied), I'm not sure he really does much leading in the cartoon either. He's more of the "straight man" for all the other wacky Turtle personalities to bounce off of from what I remember, which is admittedly not a lot.

 

*I have to say, after all the talk of the about it, I actually have downloaded the Partners in Kryme song. And i am seriously close to downloading a couple of songs from the Coming Out of Their Shells album. I think this movie might be making me go off the rails...

 

Hey, incorrect identification of the leader of the group notwithstanding, that song is legit.

 

Also, I just want to point out that Partners in Kryme recently (As in probably the last year or so) put out a new TMNT song. Yes, really. I have not listened to it, nor do I think I want to. I'll keep the good memories of Turtle Power, thanks.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Also, I just want to point out that Partners in Kryme recently (As in probably the last year or so) put out a new TMNT song. Yes, really. I have not listened to it, nor do I think I want to. I'll keep the good memories of Turtle Power, thanks.

For anyone else who hates him- or herself:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoXcDLikPLA

 

For anyone that's curious but hasn't lost the will to live, it's basically Rock the Casbah but Rock the Halfshell + even shittier Turtle costumes. And I'm pretty sure they just grabbed a random girl off the street that fit into the yellow coveralls they had to be April.

 

(And Kevin Eastman shows up at the very end to prove that there's nothing he won't whore himself out for)