EPISODE 113 — Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze: LIVE!

[Gym Sockerman 1326]

June was unstoppable on this episode, goddamn.

[HotSaucerman 2051]

In case you aren't aware, Matt Gourley interviewed "Raphael" from the first movie on his "I Was There Too" podcast. Its a good listen for Turtle fans. And a good podcast for podcast fans.

http://iwastheretoo.wolfpop.com/audio/25599/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-with-josh-pais

[Dedre_NvR 30]

When the turtles go into the lab the first time and check the computer to find the one ACTIVE canister, that canister had already been stolen, right? So the Foot had already infiltrated the lab, stolen the last canister and left, but then came back so they could show the turtles they had it?

[TomLennon{NotThatTomLennon} 15]

I was wary going into this that my love for TMNT 2 from when I watched it over and over as a kid would have me too defensive of the movie to enjoy the episode, but it's great to have them all together along with Adam Pally, who's always hilarious!

 

Although, I was surprised they didn't mention two moments of genuine, good comedy.

 

Omission 1:

Splinter has scolded them for not being very ninja-like and has Michelangelo do a bunch of backflips. He heads of to do them and we see him start and for the rest of the scene we can hear him do them in the background. Until Leo walks off and the camera pans along with him to reveal Mikey in the background just clapping his hands and counting. He realises he's caught and starts again.

 

Even now that's still pretty funny.

 

Omission 2:

The turtles have broken into the foot's lair looking for Raph. They get in and there's a bit of dialogue, "seems quiet…" to which one of the turtles replies, "…a little too quiet". They continue and come across two gaurds. Knocking them out they comment, "huh, that was easy…", "a little too easy".

 

When they finally spot Raph, donatello says, "Look! There's Raph!", to which Mikey replies, "…a little too Raph"

 

That's genuinely one of my favourite jokes!

[Bugs Meany 69]

Did you guys notice that basically no one from the first movie was in this one? April O'Neil was a different actress and most of the voice cast was different, even without the sweat suits.

Not just a different actress, but a way hotter one. (That must have been one of the studio notes, right after "less violence.") Kind of disappointed in Jason's recent lack of deviant sexual comments during their commentary.

[Maximilian 99]

I also have an in-universe theory as to why Casey Jones doesn't appear in this film but later returns in 3. If you remember the end of the last movie, Shredder falls into the garbage truck, which he probably would have survived, but then Casey deliberately turns on the compactor in order to kill him. Even though he somehow didn't manage to kill Shredder, I'm pretty sure Casey is on the lamb because he's wanted for attempted murder. And when you consider the fact that his decision to kill Shredder comes very quickly with almost no consideration, I don't think this was Casey's first murder rodeo. He spent the time between those movies cleaning up any evidence/witnesses he left behind in plans to change his identity. The Turtles should probably be worried.

 

This doesn't surprise me. Elias Koteas is so ice cold that when his son was born with health issues that he stopped his wife from naming him after him. That's my favorite scene in Gattaca, I laugh every time.

 

Omission 2:

The turtles have broken into the foot's lair looking for Raph. They get in and there's a bit of dialogue, "seems quiet…" to which one of the turtles replies, "…a little too quiet". They continue and come across two gaurds. Knocking them out they comment, "huh, that was easy…", "a little too easy".

 

When they finally spot Raph, donatello says, "Look! There's Raph!", to which Mikey replies, "…a little too Raph"

 

That's genuinely one of my favourite jokes!

Then Donny concludes that it's a good place to set up a trap and his wristband either turns into a watch or compass or some sort of trap detector. This is also when Splinter pulls out the bow and arrow.

 

When the turtles go into the lab the first time and check the computer to find the one ACTIVE canister, that canister had already been stolen, right? So the Foot had already infiltrated the lab, stolen the last canister and left, but then came back so they could show the turtles they had it?

That's a good point, but if the Foot Clan was smarter than there wouldn't have been that cool game of keep away where not any real fighting actually takes place just a lot of running around while the foot clan for the most part just stands there. Plus they had to utilize the guy that was much bigger than everyone else. Seriously, the foot clan is compromised of a bunch of averaged sized guy and one offensive lineman.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

One thing that puzzled me about the Turtles in general, at least as I grew older, is the origin of their names. For one... why the Renaissance artists in the first place. Even after watching the 'Turtle Power' documentary, I am befuddled by it. I love the uniqueness of it, so I just wish I knew exactly what inspired the artistic reference. Second, the inclusion of Donatello in relation to the other three artists referenced. Leonardo Da Vinci was basically the origin of the term "Renaissance Man," what with his creation of some of the greatest paintings in world history as well as his brilliant and scientific studies in the realms of architecture, aeronautics, anatomy, and future Bruce Willis movies to be featured on How Did This Get Made. Raphael (1482-1520) was so important a painter that an entire movement, the Pre-Raphaelites, of English painting in the 19th Century (a full three hundred years after his death) was named after and inspired by him. Michelangelo was so talented a sculptor and painter that, even as a blatantly sexually voracious homosexual who, by all accounts, stank to high heaven even by standards of 16th Century Europe and thumbed his nose at authority at every chance he got, was STILL under constant employ by the Catholic Church and the Pope, entities he took great pleasure in mocking. Hell, the most emblematic works of Renaissance art; the Sistine Chapel, David, and the Pietà; were all made by him.

 

Donatello was, most assuredly, a talented and brilliant artist, but his historical importance and talent were not in the same league as the other three in this foursome. It would be like if I named characters after some important Heavy Metal bands and chose the monikers "Sabbath," "Maiden," "Metallica," and "Goatwhore." Sure, Goatwhore is fucking awesome and make Metal music more badass than anything I could ever hope to, but in comparison to the historical importance, influence, and magnificent output of the other three bands, they really don't measure up. Maybe TMNT creators Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird just weren't fans of, say, Titian or Sandro Boticelli? Maybe they just liked the way "Donatello" sounded? Maybe I'm just thinking about this WAY TOO HARD?

[FisterRoboto 7499]

June was unstoppable on this episode, goddamn.

I agree. I was totally looking forward to her in this episode, but she was even better than I could have hoped. The part during the Q&A where she was like, "I feel like I am with a man like that" is probably my new favorite HDTGM moment.

[imhatch 271]

well this is probably the first movie on this show that i really love but only because this vhs tape got the fuck played out of it as a lil 5 year old hatch.

 

it is still impossible to watch the first five minutes and not immediately want to eat that shitty pizza keno is delivering because, controversial opinion, pizza is actually good

[Splinter face 1]

I'm not sure if somebody has mentioned this already, but TMNT and Daredevil share an origin story in the comics. The same truck that hit Daredevil and caused his blindness was carrying the ooze. TMNT came out after Daredevil and piggybacked on the crash in that, in their origin story, a can of ooze falls off of said truck as it is hitting Daredevil, rolls down into the sewer, and breaks on the turtles.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I'm not sure if somebody has mentioned this already

You would be if you had read the thread...

[pepperjack 303]

Poor June.

 

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

I'm not sure if somebody has mentioned this already, but TMNT and Daredevil share an origin story in the comics. The same truck that hit Daredevil and caused his blindness was carrying the ooze. TMNT came out after Daredevil and piggybacked on the crash in that, in their origin story, a can of ooze falls off of said truck as it is hitting Daredevil, rolls down into the sewer, and breaks on the turtles.

Besides already being talked about extensively here, was it not also mentioned in the episode? That part I'm not sure of. Also, way to like your own comment...

[TylerBennett 0]

Correction regarding who did "Cowabunga" first.

 

It was said that Simpsons did it first. Simpsons started in 1989. The TMNT cartoon started in 1987. I believe the cartoon was when they cowabunga thing started. So, TMNT did it first.

 

I think.

[imhatch 271]

if liking your own comment is cool consider me miles davis

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Correction regarding who did "Cowabunga" first.

 

It was said that Simpsons did it first. Simpsons started in 1989. The TMNT cartoon started in 1987. I believe the cartoon was when they cowabunga thing started. So, TMNT did it first.

 

I think.

The Simpsons started as shorts on the Tracey Ullman Show in 1987. "Cowabunga" was used in those shorts, which were a few months earlier than the TMNT cartoon, which started in December of that year. However, as I mentioned in my previous post about this, it didn't become Bart's catchphrase until Simpsons merchandise with the word "Cowabunga, man" on it started selling well.

 

The turtles have broken into the foot's lair looking for Raph. They get in and there's a bit of dialogue, "seems quiet…" to which one of the turtles replies, "…a little too quiet". They continue and come across two gaurds. Knocking them out they comment, "huh, that was easy…", "a little too easy".

 

When they finally spot Raph, donatello says, "Look! There's Raph!", to which Mikey replies, "…a little too Raph"

 

That's genuinely one of my favourite jokes!

Definitely agree. I have a spot in my notes that says, "I don't give a shit. 'A little too Raph' is still fucking funny."

 

Btw, thanks for reading through the thread before making your first post and not posting something we've already covered several times

[Cameron H. 23786]

Here's something I've been mulling over since the episode, I'm not sure how well I'll be able to articulate it, but I'll do my best....

 

So parenting groups had issues with the violence in the first movie, and based on their pressure, the studio made the decision to sheath their weapons--well, all except Donatello who uses his staff a couple of times, but that more or less dovetails with my point. So, no weapons--weapons I would argue very few children would have any access to, especially in the halcyon, pre-Internet days. At best, kids would be play fighting with wiffle ball bats, sticks, or whatever other non-lethal toy they could get their hands on to make pretend--something, I should point out, kids were already doing prior to both movies. And, as far as the first movie goes, even though they did use their weapons, I seem to remember it being a pretty bloodless affair.

 

So you take away the use of weapons, again objects very few kids would have access to, and replace them with objects like a yo-yo, a toy I would argue almost every single child in the world owns. In the movie, Michelangelo knocks like 8 thugs the fuck out by whipping a yo-yo over his head. You know, the exact same thing he would have done had he been allowed to use his nunchucks. So, if their arguments are to be believed and kids will emulate what they see their heroes doing on screen, what's to stop a six year old from thinking, "Hey, I don't have nunchucks, but holy crap, I can't wait to get home and clock my sister with my Duncan yo-yo?"

 

I also think this is why Donatello (regrettably) had more screen time as, of all the Turtles, he actually is able to use his staff a couple of times--a weapon not recognized as being overtly lethal. But, then again, it is just a long stick, and we all know a child could never get their grubby little fingers on something as exotic as a plain, wooden stick....

 

So in summary, yes, they took away the Turtles weapons, but for some reason came up with the brilliant plan of replacing them with everyday objects that kids could now go home and weaponize. Good call Parents of America! You're doing the Lord's work!

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I'm listening again while I'm at work and had a few other comments:

 

About Tokka/Rahzar vs Bebop/Rocksteady - This actually came down to licensing/legal clearance. Basically, they were able to use any characters that had first appeared in the comics because Mirage and Eastman/Laird had the sole rights to those characters. Bebop and Rocksteady were created for the toy line and then worked into the cartoon, so there was this whole legal question of who had the rights. Was it Playmates since the characters originated as action figures in their line? Was it Murakami-Wolf-Swenson, who developed the show (because the action figures were supposed to be extensions of the show)? Instead of fighting over all those legal hurdles, they made these shitty knockoffs. I'm pretty sure Tokka started off as an alternate version of Slash, but I can't find anything to corroborate that at the moment.

 

Also, Paul said the tour was called "Out of Their Shells" multiple times, when it's actually called "Coming Out of Their Shells." I know, I'm being a pedantic nerd at this point, but it's worth pointing out.

 

And for anyone that hasn't seen the honest trailer yet, it's worth checking out:

 

[TomLennon{NotThatTomLennon} 15]

The Simpsons started as shorts on the Tracey Ullman Show in 1987. "Cowabunga" was used in those shorts, which were a few months earlier than the TMNT cartoon, which started in December of that year. However, as I mentioned in my previous post about this, it didn't become Bart's catchphrase until Simpsons merchandise with the word "Cowabunga, man" on it started selling well.

 

 

Definitely agree. I have a spot in my notes that says, "I don't give a shit. 'A little too Raph' is still fucking funny."

 

Btw, thanks for reading through the thread before making your first post and not posting something we've already covered several times

 

I genuinely did read through everything to make sure my points hadn't already been brought up! I used to post on forums a lot more and that would drive me mad. A full conversation about something and someone chimes in at the end like, "hey, I don't know if this has been brought up what about this thing?" and it's the same things as three pages worth of conversation.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I also think this is why Donatello (regrettably) had more screen time as, of all the Turtles, he actually is able to use his staff a couple of times--a weapon not recognized as being overtly lethal. But, then again, it is just a long stick, and we all know a child could never get their grubby little fingers on something as exotic as a plain, wooden stick....

Man, you've got it out for Donny, don't you?

 

I genuinely did read through everything to make sure my points hadn't already been brought up! I used to post on forums a lot more and that would drive me mad. A full conversation about something and someone chimes in at the end like, "hey, I don't know if this has been brought up what about this thing?" and it's the same things as three pages worth of conversation.

I know. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. Two people on this page did the opposite of what you did, so I was genuinely saying thank you!

[Jwt1200 0]

We need to talk about how Splinter got his training and the montage that went with it.

 

Also it shows the turtles crawling through the ooze.

[Showtime85 0]

The main question I always had since I first watched this trilogy was how exactly did the shredder survive being knocked off a building into a garbage then being crushed by said garbage truck in the first one. Then in the second, he returns with no cuts, bruises, or any other problems.

[Cameron H. 23786]

The main question I always had since I first watched this trilogy was how exactly did the shredder survive being knocked off a building into a garbage then being crushed by said garbage truck in the first one. Then in the second, he returns with no cuts, bruises, or any other problems.

 

This also calls into question the entire time line of the movie in relation to the first movie. It felt to me like this was supposed to be like months after the first movie the way they discuss Shredder's demise like an old war story. Which makes me think, has he been in the dump for months? Was he just surviving on old baby diapers and loose syringes?

 

But then the movie shows the foot clan showing up at their garbage dump hideaway which implies that it Shredder's "death" just happened. So, the Turtles saved the city, ordered a pizza, beat up some criminals, and began talking about what they just did a couple hours ago? That's weird...

[Cameron H. 23786]

Man, you've got it out for Donny, don't you?

 

Are you kidding?

 

Fuck. This. Guy.

 

 

This is the dude who, when mixing a cocktail of highly volatile chemicals, allows his idiot brother to drop an entire slice of pizza into the pot. Will it completely negate the effects of their anti-mutagen? He doesn't know! He just keeps on mixing it like a dumbass. The Ninja Turtles are going into the battle of their lives and their whole plain rests on making sure this stuff works and he doesn't say a fucking word. That's downright irresponsible!

[Werner von Wallenrod 1]

Adam (playfully, I'm sure) called Vanilla Ice a plagerist for borrowing The New York Knicks' "Go, New York, go" anthem for his ninja rap. But The Secret Of the Ooze (1991) actually predates The Knicks' rap by a couple years (1993-94). So I hate to say it, but Jesse Itzler, the man who wrote "Go NY Go" for The Knicks (see here: http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2011/10/the-tale-of-go-ny-go-.html ), was probably, at least subconsciously, taking from the turtles.

 

Ice fans would have found that hook familiar back in 1991, though, because he was essentially recycling a popular part from one of his earlier records. Until "Ninja Rap" eclipsed it over the years, "Play That Funky Music" was Ice's second biggest hit. An obvious rap remake of Wild Cherry's 70s hit "Play That Funky Music, White Boy.," it's the one he releaeed right after "Ice, Ice Baby" and MTV played the video constantly. Well, near the end of that song, they chant, "go, whiteboy, go" in the exact same style they'd later use for "go, ninja, go." If you search around Youtube, there are some amusing concert videos where Ice does crotch thrusts to the audience as his hype men chant that part of the song.

 

Edit: I see Victor beat me to this point on page 5, but it took me two days to get my account here approved -argh! ((shakes fist))