EPISODE 113 — Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze: LIVE!

[Bugs Meany 69]

So parenting groups had issues with the violence in the first movie, and based on their pressure, the studio made the decision to sheath their weapons--well, all except Donatello who uses his staff a couple of times, but that more or less dovetails with my point. So, no weapons--weapons I would argue very few children would have any access to, especially in the halcyon, pre-Internet days. At best, kids would be play fighting with wiffle ball bats, sticks, or whatever other non-lethal toy they could get their hands on to make pretend--something, I should point out, kids were already doing prior to both movies. And, as far as the first movie goes, even though they did use their weapons, I seem to remember it being a pretty bloodless affair.

 

So you take away the use of weapons, again objects very few kids would have access to, and replace them with objects like a yo-yo, a toy I would argue almost every single child in the world owns. In the movie, Michelangelo knocks like 8 thugs the fuck out by whipping a yo-yo over his head. You know, the exact same thing he would have done had he been allowed to use his nunchucks. So, if their arguments are to be believed and kids will emulate what they see their heroes doing on screen, what's to stop a six year old from thinking, "Hey, I don't have nunchucks, but holy crap, I can't wait to get home and clock my sister with my Duncan yo-yo?"

I don't buy into the "seeing violence ---> being violent" thing, but I was 9 when the first one came out and I immediately started thinking about homemade nunchucks. With a nice home workshop at our disposal, my cousin and I took a wooden closet rod thing, cut it into foot-long pieces and connected them with small link chains. (We were harmless kids, but in other hands they could have done real damage.) I'd never seen nunchucks before TMNT, so the parents groups kind of had a point there.

[seanotron 2307]

This also calls into question the entire time line of the movie in relation to the first movie. It felt to me like this was supposed to be like months after the first movie the way they discuss Shredder's demise like an old war story. Which makes me think, has he been in the dump for months? Was he just surviving on old baby diapers and loose syringes?

 

But then the movie shows the foot clan showing up at their garbage dump hideaway which implies that it Shredder's "death" just happened. So, the Turtles saved the city, ordered a pizza, beat up some criminals, and began talking about what they just did a couple hours ago? That's weird...

 

They definitely couldn't decide on a timeline for this movie. As you said, if this is happening months later, then Shredder crawling out of the garbage makes no sense. But if this happens right after the first movie, how the hell did April get an apartment so fast? The Foot burn down her apartment halfway through the first movie. And April asks the Turtles in this movie if they found a new place to live like they've been staying with her for a while.

[Splinter face 1]

You would be if you had read the thread...

 

Sorry, I have a job and don't have time to scroll through the thread. Listen to the podcast in the car and had a spare moment to comment.

[deluxe400 0]

why didnt adam have his kid review this movie? Seems like the kid would be a positive June.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

 

They definitely couldn't decide on a timeline for this movie. As you said, if this is happening months later, then Shredder crawling out of the garbage makes no sense. But if this happens right after the first movie, how the hell did April get an apartment so fast? The Foot burn down her apartment halfway through the first movie. And April asks the Turtles in this movie if they found a new place to live like they've been staying with her for a while.

Also, maybe he had a change of heart at the end of the first one, I don't remember, but where the fuck did the very recognizable "Head Thug" disappear to?

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Sorry, I have a job and don't have time to scroll through the thread. Listen to the podcast in the car and had a spare moment to comment.

So do most of the rest of us that post here. But we're considerate enough of the others who post here to actually read what they have to say.

 

And even if you couldn't feign that sort of politeness, you could have used the search feature quite easily to find out that there had been seven posts before yours that mentioned Daredevil (it's in the top right of the page). Or you could have looked at the page directly ahead of the one where you posted and used the find feature in your browser. It literally would have taken 30 seconds either way.

[Doski-Woski 0]

Early in the episode you guys mentioned that during her night report April takes a personal moment to thank the turtles. This isn't true. If you pay attention you can hear her reporting on the sudden shut down and disappearance of tgri, the company that made the ooze. And all that was found was a note from the professor. She is reading the note that thanks the turtles.

[KrazyJoeFiore 1]

Correction and Omission:

 

 

 

The question was asked if Cowabunga first was used by Bart Simpson or the Ninja Turtles. The truth is, the origins of the word 'cowabunga' go all the way back to Howdy Doody. The word originated as 'kawabonga' and was frequently used as a nonsense Indian word by a Native American character on Howdy Doody named Chief Thunderthud.

 

I am 39 years old, and I remember first hearing the word in the late 70s/early 80s from Cookie Monster on Sesame Street. He would often scream 'Cowabunga!' before diving into a plate of cookies.

[Maximilian 99]

This also calls into question the entire time line of the movie in relation to the first movie. It felt to me like this was supposed to be like months after the first movie the way they discuss Shredder's demise like an old war story. Which makes me think, has he been in the dump for months? Was he just surviving on old baby diapers and loose syringes?

 

But then the movie shows the foot clan showing up at their garbage dump hideaway which implies that it Shredder's "death" just happened. So, the Turtles saved the city, ordered a pizza, beat up some criminals, and began talking about what they just did a couple hours ago? That's weird...

 

They definitely couldn't decide on a timeline for this movie. As you said, if this is happening months later, then Shredder crawling out of the garbage makes no sense. But if this happens right after the first movie, how the hell did April get an apartment so fast? The Foot burn down her apartment halfway through the first movie. And April asks the Turtles in this movie if they found a new place to live like they've been staying with her for a while.

 

I'm not a great listener but I think April mentioned that the guys have been living with her for six weeks. Please forgive me, as I don't have the energy required to rewatch the movie to find out where she exactly says it. But I'm pretty confident she mentions 6 weeks.

 

 

Are you kidding?

 

Fuck. This. Guy.

 

 

This is the dude who, when mixing a cocktail of highly volatile chemicals, allows his idiot brother to drop an entire slice of pizza into the pot. Will it completely negate the effects of their anti-mutagen? He doesn't know! He just keeps on mixing it like a dumbass. The Ninja Turtles are going into the battle of their lives and their whole plain rests on making sure this stuff works and he doesn't say a fucking word. That's downright irresponsible!

 

That pompous jackass also uses Kelvin to measure things that are above 0 degrees Celsius so 'F' word him.

[Maximilian 99]

Also, maybe he had a change of heart at the end of the first one, I don't remember, but where the fuck did the very recognizable "Head Thug" disappear to?

The Moon.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

The Moon.

You magnificent bastard.

[Joven 373]

There is a thread on the forums about which actor is the patron saint of How Did This Get Made. That is, what talented performer does his or her DAMNED BEST to elevate the level of the movie they're in, whether it be a piece of shit or a masterpiece. Example: Dolly Parton being charming and making "Drinkenstein" into a catchy tune in 'Rhinestone.'

 

I hereby nominate David Warner for HDTM sainthood. Warner is the star of everything from TRON, various Star Trek productions, voiceover work innumerable video games and cartoons, to the historic 1978 BBC miniseries "Holocaust."

 

Cowabunga David Warner. Doing the Lord's work:

 

 

David Warner, you are hereby under arrest by order of David Warner.

 

Another movie he was in with a Leonardo.

[Joe Lerini 7329]

 

 

David Warner, you are hereby under arrest by order of David Warner.

 

Another movie he was in with a Leonardo.

You, sir, are amazing.

[BrianAndrewSmith 8]

there is an evil turtle similiar to tokka in the original cartoon. named slash. He was bebop and rocksteadys pet. He was around about a year before tokka.

[CJH 1]

A number of people mentioned how odd it was that everyone who saw the turtles was pretty much unfazed, whereas Splinter actually got some powerful reactions upon introduction. I think we're all forgetting something very obvious guys... Splinter fuckin stinks. Like, real bad. Probably like a dead dog's nuts.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

When they finally spot Raph, donatello says, "Look! There's Raph!", to which Mikey replies, "…a little too Raph"

 

That's genuinely one of my favourite jokes!

 

I agree that this was a solid joke. Honestly, I think it's so solid that I have to imagine it's something the screenwriter had in the tank and this was his first opportunity to use it, because we really don't see anything on par with it through the rest of the movie. I mean, if we really want to get into dialog, I'd say the dialog in this movie falls into two camps: lines read like the character's are telling a joke (even though there isn't a joke to be found) and nonsensical, time-filling, gibber-jabber.

 

Here's an example of each that made me so crazy I wanted to tear my femoral artery with my finger nails and just slowly bleed out until I drifted into a world devoid of Teenagers, Ninjas, and Turtles (Mutant or otherwise):

 

The Un-joke

 

MICHELANGELO: This way, dude. It ain't the Hilton. Let's face it. You'd be better off staying at the Hilton.

 

Ha, ha, ha? Yeah, that's not a joke. That's not anything--except maybe something you'd read in a Yelp review for Days Inn. He's just sort of...saying things. I mean, the only logical response from the doctor should have been, "You think so? You think hiding in a sewer adjacent, abandoned subway station isn't better than the Hilton? You don't say..." But it's the line delivery that really kills me, it's so "Isn't this hilarious?" No it fucking isn't!!! Look, I'm not saying I can write comedy, but the joke really should have been more along the lines of, "What were you expecting, the Hilton?"

 

Time Wasting Gibber-Jabber

 

FOOT SOLDIER: Welcome to our headquarters...

 

KENO: Okay, looks like this is the place.

 

RAPHAEL: Yeah, looks like it...

 

You know what guys, there's a goddamn reason why this looks like it's the place, because it is the fucking place!!! Not only are there ninjas everywhere, you were just TOLD by a Foot Soldier that it's the fucking place. But here are these two dumb-dumbs, acting like, "I guess this is it...I'm still not sure." It's like the screenwriter felt it needed to be stated three times in quick succession for the stupid audience to get that they were in the bad guy's headquarters.

 

But ultimately, this all brings me to what made me truly sad regarding the script of this movie. By virtue of the amount of choreography needed in this movie and the fact that the animatronic Turtle suits are effectively turning the actors into living cartoons, I cannot believe that there were too many re-writes of the script going on. So any weakness you may find in the script, any stupid jokes that don't land, you know that shit was on the page! And that's a real pet peeve of mine. It's that, "You know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?" crap that I can't believe makes it through the screenwriter, the director, the producers, the actors, and God knows who else and ends up on screen. If only the craft services guy or key grip would just speak up and say, "You know, that's kind of stupid, guys. You should really consider re-writing that..."

[sixgunbuddyguy 99]

Got my omissions:

Why was shredder's armor also affected by the ooze? he grew like thirty spikes!

Were the thugs in the beginning the foot? why weren't they in uniform? why were they casually stealing things and not at all trying to hide themselves?

How does he type on that keyboard when he has like inch and a half wide turtle fingers???

 

that's all for now, but ill be back!

[FisterRoboto 7499]

But ultimately, this all brings me to what made me truly sad regarding the script of this movie. By virtue of the amount of choreography needed in this movie and the fact that the animatronic Turtle suits are effectively turning the actors into living cartoons, I cannot believe that there were too many re-writes of the script going on. So any weakness you may find in the script, any stupid jokes that don't land, you know that shit was on the page! And that's a real pet peeve of mine. It's that, "You know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?" crap that I can't believe makes it through the screenwriter, the director, the producers, the actors, and God knows who else and ends up on screen. If only the craft services guy or key grip would just speak up and say, "You know, that's kind of stupid, guys. You should really consider re-writing that..."

This is somewhat similar to a thought I had while watching the movie, but I wasn't really sure how to phrase it. Basically, there are two ideas here. The first is that it felt like they wrote a bunch of really bad one-liners that (as you pointed out) often don't make sense. Then they decided to write a fight scene around those. So there's all these gags in the opening sequence that just don't make a lot of sense. A lot of these things sound like jokes or seem like they should be gags, like the weird rocking clown thing that Donny imitates. I feel like they had a bunch of half-ideas but never really thought about how to make them work as full gags.

 

The other part of it is something I also felt while watching a recent sequel to 90s dinosaur movie. Basically, I feel like they made a checklist of stuff that happened in the first movie and then just tried to emulate parts of that without really understanding why those parts actually worked. So there are some humorous fight scenes in the first one, but the jokes at least make sense. In this one, they were just like, "Fuck it. That sounds jokey. Kids will eat that shit up."

 

I wonder if the production schedule was interfered with re-writes and such. I mean, these movies did come out almost exactly a year apart.. I couldn't find any filming dates, but I imagine they started shooting just a few months after the first one came out. So unless they had a script just sitting and ready to go, they probably just threw this shit together.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Donatello was, most assuredly, a talented and brilliant artist, but his historical importance and talent were not in the same league as the other three in this foursome.

 

Amen, brother! My distaste for all things Donatello can extend beyond fictional reptilian characters. For instance, compare Donatello's "I-don't-know-what-this-is" David...

 

 

With the far superior, and significantly more badass, David sculpture by Bernini...

 

 

No fucking comparison. Bernini's David just gave the internet an orgasm, whilst Donatello's David just meekly apologized, assured us that this never happens, and called his mom for a ride home.

 

Let's all just agree right now that a man named Donato di Niccolò di Betto Bardi never existed, thus erasing all future homages to him from the time stream, and we will have the Ninja Turtle Group we deserve: Leonardo, Raphael, Michelangelo, and Bernini.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

My distaste for all things Donatello can extend beyond fictional reptilian characters.

But....but....Donatello does machines!

[souprman 10477]

guys, i'm so sorry. i can't do it. i just... i don't like them. i just can't. i really did try. they're too gross.

 

great episode though. 'Zouks on fire live as usual.

[akaEmmybelle 3]

My ultimate Daily News headline is, "Ninjas Put Foot Down: The Turtles' victory at local bar."

 

it was right there.

[Sespiomatic 0]

I had one omission, that somehow Shredder's armor got just as super as he did, with a ludicrously oversized headpiece and a ton of new blades, but I was mere hours late and someone above me said it.

 

So instead I'll ask this.

 

Did anyone else think Donatello looked a lot like Daniel Tosh?

[souprman 10477]

This movie is a huge favorite of my wife and I've seen it more times than I wish to recall. Was super excited to see it come up on the podcast!

 

Literally the best part of this movie is in the beginning when kato is calling the police: "Hurry up theres a ton of these guys... K. BYE!" You should end all your 911 calls that way.

 

Also nobody mentioned the ancient ritual of the pre-fight donut?!

 

When I saw this come up on the HDTGM twitter feed I couldn't help but make a 3 minute cut of all the best parts of this movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv2JWICYwvo

great 1st post! also i can now update my previous post and say i really feel like all the blanks are filled in. did not see that ending coming at all.

 

thanks johnpaulsarcasm!

[FisterRoboto 7499]

the Ninja Turtle Group we deserve: Leonardo, Raphael, Michelangelo, and Bernini.

Coming back to this again, that would lead to an interesting set of nicknames. There'd be Leo, Raph, Mikey, and....Bernie?