Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[RyanSz 3140]

That reminds me, I saw an article a couple weeks back that was called "Henry Cavill has seen the Justice League script". Well, it starts filming in about two weeks, so I certainly HOPE he would have seen it by now.

 

Does anyone else wonder where the IHOPs went?

See that's what they want you to think, that actors actually see the scripts for the movies that they are in. I believe that they just put a bag over their head, drive them to an unknown location and say "welcome to the set of the new Sandler film."

[kjbleu 7]

Yes, do this or Man of Steel, and get Kevin Smith and Ralph Garman as guests. They did a review of Man of Steel on their show that was hilarious, and they would be great on the podcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXwYvoiR1Yc,

[RyanSz 3140]

One thing I forgot to ask, is it just me or would it be HILARIOUS that this entire movie, or the entire DC universe, was basically just a rabies fever dream of Bruce Wayne as he's dying at the bottom of the hole he fell into? Because the amount of bats that enveloped that kid at the start of this movie, there's no way that he didn't get bit at least a few times.

 

 

[Lando 2019]

More like

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

More like

I can't think of a more appropriate time to bring a certain question out of retirement.

 

Drumroll, please...

 

 

Would "Batman V Superman" have been better if it starred Nic Cage?

 

[RyanSz 3140]

I can't think of a more appropriate time to bring a certain question out of retirement.

 

Drumroll, please...

 

 

Would "Batman V Superman" have been better if it starred Nic Cage?

 

Then when he was originally cast maybe, though he looked absolutely baked in all the pics of him in the suit.

[Amy the Gorilla 732]

I don't know if any of you guys are aware of these guys, their humor tends to run on the weird and aggressively sarcastic side.

 

"Batman v Superman was a film." "Barely."

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

(long video warning)

[NundercoverBrother 174]

Its not fun.

[ElieB 238]

Hahaha saw it saturday night and ohhhh boy is it a HOT HOT MESS. I would definitely love an HDTGM episode about it but don't see it happening.

[Wien 401]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/lindsay-lohan-falling-in-love-with-a-car?utm_term=.omR7rAoW#.sxgZOLgM

[Jillybean 104]

That buzzfeed list is awesome. So is "Sad Affleck." At least the fallout from this movie is entertaining!

[Cameron H. 23786]

From an article about Affleck's interview with Jimmy Fallon:

 

Affleck stated that Batman v Superman is for audiences, for fans of comic books and of these superheroes; they’re the people that will really enjoy it.

“Don’t scare people into thinking this is a critical film,” Affleck told Fallon. “We’re not going through the film critics’ circle or whatever. It’s an audience movie. People will actually like this movie.”

 

And here's one from Cavill:

 

Adding, “What is really going to matter, I believe, is what the audience says. Because they’re the ones who are buying tickets, they’re the ones who want to see more of this kind of story or not and so the audience’s voice is loudest, and after this weekend the audience, at least partly, will have spoken.”

 

I just want to say, I hate this argument. Basically it says, "We didn't make this movie for the critics, just your average dumb-dumbs who don't care if something is actually good or not." No, assholes. The reason your movie is making money right now is because it's a movie with Superman and Batman together for the first time. You could have smashed two turds together dressed in tiny capes, called it Superman v Batman, and people still would have gone to see it opening weekend--if only to see what the fuck was going on.

 

Then again, maybe they're right. It's not like there's ever been a superhero movie that's been a hit with critics and fans, stayed true to the source material, got the tone pitch perfect, and made a ton of money...

 

 

 

Oh, right....

 

 

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/lindsay-lohan-falling-in-love-with-a-car?utm_term=.omR7rAoW#.sxgZOLgM

I have an issue with this list, as I've used Max Keeble as a punchline for years, and I know that it's a DISNEY film, not Nickelodeon!

[sillstaw 414]

I just want to say, I hate this argument. Basically it says, "We didn't make this movie for the critics, just your average dumb-dumbs who don't care if something is actually good or not." No, assholes. The reason your movie is making money right now is because it is a movie with Superman and Batman together for the first time. You could have smashed two turds together dressed in tiny capes, called it Superman v Batman, and people still would have gone to see it opening weekend--if only to see what the fuck was going on.

 

Then again, maybe they're right. It's not like there's ever been a superhero movie that's been a hit with critics and fans, stayed true to the source material, got the tone pitch perfect, and made a ton of money...

 

 

 

Oh, right....

 

 

 

Not to mention that the "Dark Knight" trilogy was pretty highly acclaimed; the lowest Tomatometer rating for any of the movies was 85% for "Batman Begins." And Marvel movies tend to do all right for themselves, as well.

 

I recall seeing a similarly sour-grapes thing from the producer of "Wild Hogs" about how critics don't know what audiences like and how nobody should trust them. At the time, I did some quick research and found that, of all the top-grossing movies (not adjusted for inflation), pretty much the only one in the top twenty or so that had a rotten score was "The Da Vinci Code." Currently, the highest-grossing-worldwide film with a rotten score is "Minions," at #11; the top ten, with movies ranging from "Avatar" to "Furious 7," all have fresh ratings, with the lowest one being "Jurassic World" at 72%.

 

I mean, it's almost like critics tend to be people who enjoy a good popcorn flick as much as they like weirdo French films about nothing.

[RyanSz 3140]

The problem with the argument is that the critics being used in describing the bad reviews to the stars of this movie are the more highfalutin ones from publications that are mostly aimed at Oscar bait or small indie flicks. If they wanted to get an honest opinion from Affleck or Cavill, they should have reference bad reviews from critics in that wheelhouse like from Cinemablend or any of the countless comic/pop culture review sites that have reviewed this movie. Then and only then do I think that they could have gotten a more direct answer from the stars, though they still might have bounced back with "well it's posting in the high 70s in audience repsonses." Which could have made for a more cohesive discussion about comic films and the people who see them as casual viewers compared to diehards who are looking at the film through a microscope.

[Royboy 430]

This article pretty much covered every problem I had with the movie: http://io9.gizmodo.com/batman-v-superman-spoiler-faq-of-justice-1767720335

 

And if the HDTGM gang covered this movie, I get the impression we'd hear a lot of the same points.

[Cameron H. 23786]

This article pretty much covered every problem I had with the movie: http://io9.gizmodo.c...tice-1767720335

 

And if the HDTGM gang covered this movie, I get the impression we'd hear a lot of the same points.

 

Thanks for the link, Royboy! That was pretty hilarious. The thing that gets me though, and this could have just been the writer being hyperbolic, is where he talks about the terrified little kid screaming in fear and needing to leave the theater during a freaking SUPERMAN movie! However, I don't think the writer was exaggerating, since I read a comment on another review that said basically the same thing--except that commenter was the father of the child. Those responding to his complaint were like, "Well, you shouldn't have brought your kid," again, to a superhero movie!

 

Look, I get that I'm an adult who still likes comic books, and while I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I'm under no illusion that I'm the target audience. They should be striving for a tone like The Force Awakens, which, I felt, was fun for the whole family. I'm so sick of the DCU's insistence that dark, dour, and nihilistic equals "maturity" and "realism." Nor do I want a Batman who brands criminals with a mark that he knows will get them brutally killed in prison. That's just fucked up. At least The Punisher is merciful enough to just put a bullet in your head--"One shot, one kill."

[Lando 2019]

I just want to know if I should see BvS or My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Look, I get that I'm an adult who still likes comic books, and while I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I'm under no illusion that I'm the target audience. They should be striving for a tone like The Force Awakens, which, I felt, was fun for the whole family. I'm so sick of the DCU's insistence that dark, dour, and nihilistic equals "maturity" and "realism." Nor do I want a Batman who brands criminals with a mark that he knows will get them brutally killed in prison. That's just fucked up. At least The Punisher is merciful enough to just put a bullet in your head--"One shot, one kill."

Eh in my opinion it all works with this plot they laid out. I mean Alfred kinda calls Bruce out for going too far so it's not like it's even an accepted thing within the Batverse.

 

Like I said before, Superman was never really my thing so none of this really bothers me as much, but Batman's movie universe (at least since 89) has always been dark. Even when what's-his-face tried to throw in more humor and brightly colored bull shit with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin there was always an underlying darkness to it.

 

I kinda compare it with what Marvel has been doing lately as well. The Winter Soldier, for example, would not be the first choice of movie I would pick for my kid. Not to mention how incredibly dark Daredevil and Jessica Jones are. I know those being on Netflix have different standards but they're still about superheroes. But since the other Marvel properties are still "kid friendly" maybe it's more accepted that these few properties have more dark and realistic undertones.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Eh in my opinion it all works with this plot they laid out. I mean Alfred kinda calls Bruce out for going too far so it's not like it's even an accepted thing within the Batverse.

 

Like I said before, Superman was never really my thing so none of this really bothers me as much, but Batman's movie universe (at least since 89) has always been dark. Even when what's-his-face tried to throw in more humor and brightly colored bull shit with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin there was always an underlying darkness to it.

 

I kinda compare it with what Marvel has been doing lately as well. The Winter Soldier, for example, would not be the first choice of movie I would pick for my kid. Not to mention how incredibly dark Daredevil and Jessica Jones are. I know those being on Netflix have different standards but they're still about superheroes. But since the other Marvel properties are still "kid friendly" maybe it's more accepted that these few properties have more dark and realistic undertones.

 

I also have to admit, I have not seen the movie. So maybe it works. I am basing all of my opinions on MoS, the trailers, and the articles I've read. But, when even Kevin Smith (who likes EVERYTHING!) is like, "not so much..." it gives me pause. Without having seen the movie, I do know everything that happens in it. I even think that the Batman stuff could work, if they had done a solo Batman movie first that adapted (not just implied) The Killing Joke and Death in the Family. Then you could maybe understand why he was pushed to such extremes. I think the DCU was trying so desperately to catch up with Marvel, that they neglected to lay that ground work.

 

As for Superman (again, not a huge fan by any stretch), but I don't see how a scowling face works for that character. He's supposed to be better than us (a "Superman" as it were). He should reflect what we want to be, not (cynically) how we may actually be. I think that's why Superman and Batman have worked well together in the past. They're perfect foils in the same way the Joker is an effective Batman villain (control vs. chaos; careful deliberation vs. insanity). By that definition, Batman should be the cynical, pragmatist and Superman should be the hopeful, optimist.

 

To your second point, I think it all comes down to marketing. If you go into a department store right now, you're going to see a bunch of Superman and Batman toys; at the grocery store (bottom shelf to catch the eyes of a little one), you'll find sugary, Superman cereal with cheap little toys inside. Everything is saying, "Kids, go see this movie!" On the other hand, I'm not seeing too many Daredevil toys and zero Jessica Jones toys. I haven't seen very many Deadpool things either (least of all in the children's clothing section). It's not like people saw the Deadpool trailer and thought, "Well, it's a superhero movie, it should be alright for my 6-year old..." Which isn't to say the trailers for BvS made it seem kid friendly, but by having Superman in it, I think there should be some wholesomeness to it, not just angst ridden navel gazing.

 

In regard to Winter Soldier, my son has seen it, and God knows Cap kills a lot of people, but it's not like he's branding people with an American flag. It's all pretty bloodless, like an Indiana Jones movie. It takes itself seriously enough that you're engaged with the movie, but not so seriously that you ever forget that it's a comic book movie.

 

That's my two cents anyway. I will see BvS eventually and maybe I'll recant everything I've written, but this is my immediate reaction to it.

 

P.S. To circle back to a conversation we had almost a year ago, and so people don't think that I'm some kind of raging Marvel fanboy, I tried to re-watch Age of Ultron again a couple of mornings ago. As you know, my opinion of that wasn't too high, but I figured it's been a year since I watched it, and I'd give it another go. I watched for a little under 9 minutes, right up to the moment when Black Widow says to Hulk something like, "Hey, big guy. The sun's getting mighty low" when I rolled my eyes and turned that shit off.

[Cameron H. 23786]

To add something to my previous post regarding marketing to children. My three-year old, despite having a comic book loving dork for a father (mostly Marvel and indie stuff) and not having cable television (streaming all the way, baby!), knows exactly one superhero: Superbatman--one word. lol

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

 

 

I also have to admit, I have not seen the movie. So maybe it works. I am basing all of my opinions on MoS, the trailers, and the articles I've read. But, when even Kevin Smith (who likes EVERYTHING!) is like, "not so much..." it gives me pause. Without having seen the movie, I do know everything that happens in it. I even think that the Batman stuff could work, if they had done a solo Batman movie first that adapted (not just implied) The Killing Joke and Death in the Family. Then you could maybe understand why he was pushed to such extremes. I think the DCU was trying so desperately to catch up with Marvel, that they neglected to lay that ground work.

 

As for Superman (again, not a huge fan by any stretch), but I don't see how a scowling face works for that character. He's supposed to be better than us (a "Superman" as it were). He should reflect what we want to be, not (cynically) how we may actually be. I think that's why Superman and Batman have worked well together in the past. They're perfect foils in the same way the Joker is an effective Batman villain (control vs. chaos; careful deliberation vs. insanity). By that definition, Batman should be the cynical, pragmatist and Superman should be the hopeful, optimist.

 

To your second point, I think it all comes down to marketing. If you go into a department store right now, you're going to see a bunch of Superman and Batman toys; at the grocery store (bottom shelf to catch the eyes of a little one), you'll find sugary, Superman cereal with cheap little toys inside. Everything is saying, "Kids, go see this movie!" On the other hand, I'm not seeing too many Daredevil toys and zero Jessica Jones toys. I haven't seen very many Deadpool things either (least of all in the children's clothing section). It's not like people saw the Deadpool trailer and thought, "Well, it's a superhero movie, it should be alright for my 6-year old..." Which isn't to say the trailers for BvS made it seem kid friendly, but by having Superman in it, I think there should be some wholesomeness to it, not just angst ridden navel gazing.

 

In regard to Winter Soldier, my son has seen it, and God knows Cap kills a lot of people, but it's not like he's branding people with an American flag. It's all pretty bloodless, like an Indiana Jones movie. It takes itself seriously enough that you're engaged with the movie, but not so seriously that you ever forget that it's a comic book movie.

 

That's my two cents anyway. I will see BvS eventually and maybe I'll recant everything I've written, but this is my immediate reaction to it.

 

P.S. To circle back to a conversation we had almost a year ago, and so people don't think that I'm some kind of raging Marvel fanboy, I tried to re-watch Age of Ultron again a couple of mornings ago. As you know, my opinion of that wasn't too high, but I figured it's been a year since I watched it, and I'd give it another go. I watched for a little under 9 minutes, right up to the moment when Black Widow says to Hulk something like, "Hey, big guy. The sun's getting mighty low" when I rolled my eyes and turned that shit off.

While most of your points are right on, the reaction to Deadpool was EXACTLY what you thought it wasn't, which was people seeing the trailer and thinking "It's a Marvel movie, so I can totally take my kids". At my theater, there were very few problems with it, which is shocking, and this was even after telling a lot of people that came in with small kids that seemingly didn't know better "Hey, this totally isn't for kids". Some were like "Yeah, I know", while others had NO clue what it was, just that their four-year-old thought it was Spider-Man, so they figured "What the hell?". It's kind of ironic though that this adult character seems to be playing better across the board with a lighter tone than these all-ages icons that are playing it super dark, but that's what happens when you get the CHARACTERS right.

 

Also, there's Deadpool merch allllllllllll over the place. Up until a couple months ago, he was certainly the most heavily-branded character that had never had a movie.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Cameron, I don't want to quote everything and take up the whole screen but I will just say that you make a ton of fair points. I don't have children so maybe I'm actually more cautious about what is appropriate for them cause I don't want to fuck things up lol. I tried to keep my 14 year old brother from seeing Gone Girl and he was like, "...really?" so seriously I'm not the best judgement on that front. I didn't even think about toys and shit being behind it but yeah wow that makes a ton of sense! But there were actually a TON of parents who were pissed after taking their child to see Deadpool and felt there was "not a good enough warning" which I was thinking oh that 'R' rating wasn't a fucking warning?? People are so dumb like for real.

 

I think that because I do know the stories that this Batman has referenced plus not knowing Superman just had me come out like "YEAH I HAD SO MUCH FUN! GO SEE IT!" But for those who maybe know Superman more and don't know Batman's stories as well they come out thinking the opposite. You may not recant anything you've said so far, seriously I don't think this movie was perfect by any means. I just had fun watching it and the flaws weren't enough for me to go "oh fuck this" like AoU or MoS did.

 

Edit: Once you see it I would actually love to talk about the flaws of it because I'm trying to keep it spoiler free, but there are some things that I'm really trying to wrap my brain around despite the fun I had lol.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I'm going to take the Taylor Anne approach and forego quotes :)/>

 

PlanB: In regard to Deadpool, it was probably a poor example on my part. I think I was trying to use it as an example of a superhero character that can work as being a bit edgier (as opposed to Superman). As far as marketing--and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong--yes, there was a huge marketing blitz for Deadpool, but I think the distinction is that DP's marketing seemed more general (i.e. drink cups with his image on it) whereas, BvS is targeting kids (i.e. cereals that no grown adult would/should eat). I think the difference is, in my mind, people who tried to take their kids to see a rated R movie called DEADpool, were being willfully (and possibly irresponsibly) ignorant, where, on the other hand, people are being led to believe, by virtue of the character himself (Superman) and that his and Batman's likenesses are being used for Happy Meals toys (I'm not sure if this is true, but I assume it must be), people are being conned into thinking it's just your average, fun for the whole family, superhero affair.

 

Taylor Anne: You'd be surprised what you may allow your children to see (assuming having kids is even something you ever want to do). Honestly, I've taken it on a case by case basis. Some things you just know aren't appropriate (like Fifty Shades of Grey), some things you realize aren't appropriate as you're watching them, and some things change as they mature. Case in point: I've always been pretty relaxed with my son about a lot of things--movies, cussing, whatever. For instance, I wouldn't object to him seeing a naked body in a movie, as long as it's not being objectified, and God knows, you don't have to be naked for that. But a year ago, my son sat with me while I watched Daredevil. He also watched a few episodes of The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones (both shows I've since stopped watching for my own reasons) But, all in all, he didn't seem to really care. I didn't really think it was a big deal, nor did he really seem affected by it. This year, however, while watching Season 2 of Daredevil, all the sudden, in the middle of a brutal fight scene, with every punch, he was saying, "Ouch! Ouch!" It was then that I made the decision to watch it on my own time. The last thing I needed was for him to go to school and cold cock that little piece of shit Bryson (Motherfucking sour milk looking troll baby! Leave my kid's sweet fedora alone!)

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Gah okay I listened to Comedy Film Nerds review and I have to say there are more flaws than I even had remembered.

 

I'm so on the fence about this movie. I had fun watching it but wow they really did get some shit wrong.

 

Whatever, y'all. I officially have stopped caring about this movie lol.