Episode 137 - The Avengers: LIVE!

[RuncibleShaw 21]

- They both have very distinct accents which they make absolutely ZERO effort to change despite the roles they are portraying

 

In Arnold's case they just kind of ignore/don't mention his ethnicity. But, the best is Highlander where Sean Connery is supposedly Egyptian and living in Spain. He has a thick Scottish brogue and Christopher Lambert, playing a Scotsmen has an accent of indeterminate origin.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Hold the phone, guys! I think I've figured out the whole "Teddy Bears" thing!

 

I think the idea is if you were just to wear a mask (as Jason suggested) there's still a chance you can be identified. For instance, you might still be able to identify a person by their skin tone, weight, and/or height which could potentially set the authorities on your trail. As briefly touched upon in the episode, these outfits make it so there is zero chance that one or more of your physical traits will betray your identity. In other words, a person who is short and overweight would be almost indistinguishable from someone tall and lean when they are wearing a huge Bear costume.

 

I'm almost ashamed of myself for figuring this out.

 

However, i do agree, that for this movie, wearing bright bear costumes is tonally out of place and there are still tons of problems with this and the subsequent scenes. Like, after murdering two of the bears, why didn't Connery bother to have anyone remove the bodies from his public weather retail outlet?

[jarrycanada 2483]

Ooh I'm interested in the idea of the director (in the Blake Harris interview) saying he wants to re-edit this film. Because I think there could be a version where it's Gentleman!Steed and smart, strong Mrs Peel fighting against the misogynistic Sean Connery. I posted that article about Patrick Macnee where he said Steed was always comfortable working with a strong female partner, unlike Connery's Bond.

 

He'd have to remove the weird naked Ralph Fiennes scene, because that was very gross. And also him making her get him tea. There's also something interesting about Mother being good but Father being evil. I'm also sure there's more scenes of Connery being creepy they could use. Or maybe just a clip of his interviews.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0d1zTAFKA

 

taking him out of context.

 

That slap looks like this.

 

 

Knowing that he was once mr bond, he could be talking about a good old fashion love slap.

[Smigg 1488]

 

In Arnold's case they just kind of ignore/don't mention his ethnicity. But, the best is Highlander where Sean Connery is supposedly Egyptian and living in Spain. He has a thick Scottish brogue and Christopher Lambert, playing a Scotsmen has an accent of indeterminate origin.

 

There's the Arnold Loophole "I was born in Austria, then I moved over to America"

 

But, Connery gives no fucks

 

James Bond

"I'm an English shpy, shyakyen, noht shtirred!"

 

Highlander

"I'm a Shpanish Shwaurdshman! Deyer cyen be owenly hwan!"

 

The Hunt for Red October

"I'm a Roshan Shubmadeen Cyeptyen! Gyev meeya pyeng, Vashelli"

 

The Avengers

"I'm a Shcortsh Shyoopahvullan! Yoowll bahee yoer hwithur form me!"

 

It's so much fun typing in his acshent

[Amy the Gorilla 732]

-- Is Father blind?

-- Why isn't Steed electrocuted at the end when Connery is? They are standing on a metal bridge. It'd conduct the electricity.

 

 

-- It was shown that she was blind in the odd reveal that she was banging/working with Sir August when they were playing croquet. Father is winning, so August smooshes the ball into the ground so that father misses and father is none the wiser. I also want to say that Sir August brings up her blindness in conversation, but I'm probably misremembering.

 

-- Not only that, but he/they were soaked in water, which would have also conducted electricity all over the damn place.

[JeremyPhillips 11]

I am the host of Cinema Limbo, a podcast that reappraises unloved or forgotten movies, and The Avengers was one of the first we covered on the show. I saw it in the theater when it was released, bought an ex-rental VHS, a widescreen VHS, the DVD twice – first in a snapper case, then in a regular one – the novelization, the published script and both editions of the soundtrack, so yes, I really love the movie, despite its flaws, and I think I might be able to point out a few corrections and omissions.

 

The reason it’s called The Avengers dates back to the start of the TV series. The original lead was police pathologist called David Keel, whose wife is murdered by gangsters, so he teams up with secret agent John Steed to avenge her death on the criminal world. Actor Ian Hendry left after the first season, so Patrick MacNee was promoted to lead and paired with a series of female partners for the rest of the series’ run, during which time the tone became both more light-hearted and fantastical, Steed being an expert in spycraft and aristocracy and his partner an expert in everything else – an equal division of labor in the series. It also began airing on CBS in 1967, but skipped to the Emma Peel episodes. Since only two episodes from the first season survive, it has never aired in the US. I could also ask, by the way, what is it the Marvel characters are avenging?

 

Paul and company seemed to have trouble with the tone of the movie. It is set, like much of the series, in a fantasy version of England, where tea is drunk constantly, the 60s never ended and the world appears depopulated. I think this is a hangover from the original series, which could never afford many extras, so the movie is following its stylistic lead. Sir August does have a butler, who shows Emma in earlier in the film. Why would Sir August want to control the weather? Because the series was always full of monomaniacal masterminds obsessed with a single subject. He already sells customized weather delivered through a telephone line, but his plan is to control the world monopoly on weather – his smashing of the globe into the camera at the World Council of Ministers is surely a reference to Connery’s own love of golf.

 

This ‘Avengersland’ extends to an assault course for agents being a country village – the falling plant pot is surely over the entry to the course – and the setting of 1999, which you can tell from the tax disc in the windshield of Steed’s car. The producer’s comments about wanting to live in a London that’s clean and free of billboards seems pretty fair to me, and I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years.

 

The ‘if we still have an enemy’ line after the assault course was intended as a reference to the Cold War. Joel McNeely, who now composes the music for American Dad! and has produced two albums with Seth MacFarlane, was hired so late in production that the trailer still credits Michael Kamen as providing the score.

 

The bear scene – yeah. It would make more sense for them to have been dressed as different types of cloud to conceal their identities, fitting in with the weather theme, but different colored teddy bears obviously makes for a more striking and memorable images, as the podcast audience seemed to agree. Eddie Izzard, incidentally, took his role solely to have the opportunity to work with Sean Connery, and decided to play his character mute as his dialogue was either unnecessary or just vague threats. His one word of dialogue was added in post to lift the rating above PG. The gesticulations made by the extra in the bear costume are I think just an aid to the audience to indicate who’s speaking and compensate for a lack of facial expressions.

 

Father’s skills at doing things she can’t see derive from the single episode of the series in which she appears, where she’s shown to have powerful hearing. The decision to pair Emma with Steed appears to be simply because she’s so obviously the culprit that it couldn’t be her, so putting her on the case under supervision should connect to who the real villain is. Fortunately, it’s the only other suspect. Sir August’s obsession with Emma derives from both of them working on the weather project, and is an element left over from an earlier version of the script in which he was the brother of her dead husband. This also suggests a connection to Daphne du Maurier’s book Rebecca, which is also about a man called de Winter living in a huge mansion, dominated by a lost love and with a malevolent woman dressed in black in his household who already reminds him of her. Also the film is filled with references to Alice in Wonderland and Shakespeare that no-one mentioned.

 

Did you have to call her ‘tumor’? In the script she’s called ‘Bad Emma’, and the reason Steed kisses the real Emma is connected to an earlier version of the scene where the fake Emma knocks him out in the maze – not with a punch, but with a kiss from poison lipstick. The chess game played by Steed and Emma in her home is the same as the one in Blade Runner, which connects to Sir August telling Steed, ‘Time to die’ at the end.

 

The wasps don’t really fit with the weather motif, unless you decide they are an integral part of the English summer (they are), and the constant tea references derive from trying to make something that’s uber-English. I admit that the performances of Fiennes and Thurman are a problem, as they should have been a lot looser and more comfortable, instead of pushing English unflappability too far as they do. It’s a really fun movie, I think, and I’m looking forward to seeing it again, although I doubt I’ll be able to get through the boot scene without remembering Jason’s gross noises.

 

A link to the podcast:

 

http://www.podnose.com/002-the-avengers-1998

[Cameron H. 23786]

I could also ask, by the way, what is it the Marvel characters are avenging?

 

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

The reason it’s called The Avengers dates back to the start of the TV series. The original lead was police pathologist called David Keel, whose wife is murdered by gangsters, so he teams up with secret agent John Steed to avenge her death on the criminal world. Actor Ian Hendry left after the first season, so Patrick MacNee was promoted to lead and paired with a series of female partners for the rest of the series’ run, during which time the tone became both more light-hearted and fantastical, Steed being an expert in spycraft and aristocracy and his partner an expert in everything else – an equal division of labor in the series. It also began airing on CBS in 1967, but skipped to the Emma Peel episodes. Since only two episodes from the first season survive, it has never aired in the US. I could also ask, by the way, what is it the Marvel characters are avenging?

 

Paul and company seemed to have trouble with the tone of the movie. It is set, like much of the series, in a fantasy version of England, where tea is drunk constantly, the 60s never ended and the world appears depopulated. I think this is a hangover from the original series, which could never afford many extras, so the movie is following its stylistic lead. Sir August does have a butler, who shows Emma in earlier in the film. Why would Sir August want to control the weather? Because the series was always full of monomaniacal masterminds obsessed with a single subject. He already sells customized weather delivered through a telephone line, but his plan is to control the world monopoly on weather – his smashing of the globe into the camera at the World Council of Ministers is surely a reference to Connery’s own love of golf.

 

This ‘Avengersland’ extends to an assault course for agents being a country village – the falling plant pot is surely over the entry to the course – and the setting of 1999, which you can tell from the tax disc in the windshield of Steed’s car. The producer’s comments about wanting to live in a London that’s clean and free of billboards seems pretty fair to me, and I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years.

 

The ‘if we still have an enemy’ line after the assault course was intended as a reference to the Cold War. Joel McNeely, who now composes the music for American Dad! and has produced two albums with Seth MacFarlane, was hired so late in production that the trailer still credits Michael Kamen as providing the score.

 

The bear scene – yeah. It would make more sense for them to have been dressed as different types of cloud to conceal their identities, fitting in with the weather theme, but different colored teddy bears obviously makes for a more striking and memorable images, as the podcast audience seemed to agree. Eddie Izzard, incidentally, took his role solely to have the opportunity to work with Sean Connery, and decided to play his character mute as his dialogue was either unnecessary or just vague threats. His one word of dialogue was added in post to lift the rating above PG. The gesticulations made by the extra in the bear costume are I think just an aid to the audience to indicate who’s speaking and compensate for a lack of facial expressions.

 

Father’s skills at doing things she can’t see derive from the single episode of the series in which she appears, where she’s shown to have powerful hearing. The decision to pair Emma with Steed appears to be simply because she’s so obviously the culprit that it couldn’t be her, so putting her on the case under supervision should connect to who the real villain is. Fortunately, it’s the only other suspect. Sir August’s obsession with Emma derives from both of them working on the weather project, and is an element left over from an earlier version of the script in which he was the brother of her dead husband. This also suggests a connection to Daphne du Maurier’s book Rebecca, which is also about a man called de Winter living in a huge mansion, dominated by a lost love and with a malevolent woman dressed in black in his household who already reminds him of her. Also the film is filled with references to Alice in Wonderland and Shakespeare that no-one mentioned.

 

Did you have to call her ‘tumor’? In the script she’s called ‘Bad Emma’, and the reason Steed kisses the real Emma is connected to an earlier version of the scene where the fake Emma knocks him out in the maze – not with a punch, but with a kiss from poison lipstick. The chess game played by Steed and Emma in her home is the same as the one in Blade Runner, which connects to Sir August telling Steed, ‘Time to die’ at the end.

 

The wasps don’t really fit with the weather motif, unless you decide they are an integral part of the English summer (they are), and the constant tea references derive from trying to make something that’s uber-English. I admit that the performances of Fiennes and Thurman are a problem, as they should have been a lot looser and more comfortable, instead of pushing English unflappability too far as they do. It’s a really fun movie, I think, and I’m looking forward to seeing it again, although I doubt I’ll be able to get through the boot scene without remembering Jason’s gross noises.

 

I'm glad some people got joy out of this for all the money they put into it.

 

I understand why the TV series was called "The Avengers". Even in the Emma Peel episodes it usually opens with a dead body on a chess board and the narrator says they avenge crimes. But there were no dead people in the movie? It doesn't fit the premise. (And, as a nerd, I will tell you the Marvel Avengers were named by Janet van Dyne--the Wasp--after they stopped a plot where Loki caused mayhem and made it look like the Hulk was to blame.)

 

Can you clarify your point on "Rebecca"? I'm an English major and that was one of my fave books. I know Maxim de Winter had a dead wife and there was the famous housekeeper who loved her. But I wouldn't call her a "lost love." Spoilers for Rebecca the novel. His wife was a horrible person and he killed her. It's his new wife--only referred to as the Second Mrs. de Winter--who is the true love of his life and she is nothing like Rebecca.

 

So are you suggesting Connery killed his first wife? Then why make a robot version of her? Or want to have a do-over with Mrs. Peel?

[Cameron H. 23786]

Spoilers for Rebecca the novel.

 

Goddamnit, Elektra! Spoiler tags!

 

 

I was an English Major, too! We're the best!

 

[ChunkStyle 1160]

This was a fantastic episode. Tom was one of the quieter guests but all of his input was great.

 

I'd say my biggest issue not addressed in the podcast was the relationship between Mother and his secretary. At the end of the movie she is hand feeding him cookies. In an earlier scene she is standing behind him massaging/caressing his shoulders while he is speaking. I need to know more about what they've got going on.

 

The fact that Father's blindness only came into play during a croquet game was a nice little extra dash of nuts into this movie. And what was the point of that scene? To show that Connery is not only the big villain he is also the petty villain?

 

I will say for all of this movies many many failings I think it can actually work as a pretty solid comedy if every time someone says "Steed" you imagine they are saying "Steve" instead. That is how I misheard it at first. Steve is fairly low on my scale of funny names. But said as they were saying Steed it becomes excellent.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Did you have to call her ‘tumor’?

They didn't. They clearly say, "Twoma," because she's Uma #2.

 

I appreciate everything you've written that's filled out the movie, but we should not have to read the earlier version of the script or watch the 60s television show that only a handful of Americans seem to know about in order to grasp what's happening in the 1998 film. Like it would have been awesome to see 2ma try to poison him with a kiss but that didn't happen and so it shouldn't be a factor in how we perceive the movie.

 

Oh also out in East Texas during the summer there are wasps a plenty but I still don't see a wasp and make a connection to summer.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I could also ask, by the way, what is it the Marvel characters are avenging?

 

The Earth, in the movies, as Tony Stark explains:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2erEi4e6h8k

 

In the comics, Wasp gave them the name after they defeated Loki the first time because it was "colorful and dramatic."

 

Did you have to call her ‘tumor’?

 

It's 2ma or Two-Ma, both a play on the fact that she's the second character played by Uma Thurman.

 

ETA: Elektra beat me to the Wasp bit and fuckin' Taylor Anne beat me to 2ma explanation, but I'm leaving them both in goddammit!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

ETA: Elektra beat me to the Wasp bit and fuckin' Taylor Anne beat me to 2ma explanation, but I'm leaving them both in goddammit!

You're makin' a good case for me to change my name to "fuckin' taylor anne" here

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Oh also out in East Texas during the summer there are wasps a plenty but I still don't see a wasp and make a connection to summer.

That's because you live in Dallas, where the WASPs are out all year.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

That's because you live in Dallas, where the WASPs are out all year.

I feel like you're just making a Dallas joke and I have a real urge to flip you off buuuut

 

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I feel like you're just making a Dallas joke and I have a real urge to flip you off buuuut

 

 

 

 

Is it too early in the thread for these kinds of shenanigans?

 

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

Is it too early in the thread for these kinds of shenanigans?

 

 

 

 

Personally, I prefer the senanigans

 

 

Let's do this!

 

That's right--the incredibly rare triple spoiler tag!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

 

 

 

Is it too early in the thread for these kinds of shenanigans?

 

 

 

I actually have no idea what's happening. I could start shit about Austin but I genuinely love that city soooooo YOUR PRICE OF LIVING IS TOO HIGH BOOM SUCK IT

[FisterRoboto 7499]

 

I actually have no idea what's happening. I could start shit about Austin but I genuinely love that city soooooo YOUR PRICE OF LIVING IS TOO HIGH BOOM SUCK IT

I grew up in the Lewisville/Flower Mound area, and Dallas isn't ALL bad. I've just turned into one of those people I used to hate that thinks Austin is the greatest thing ever and anywhere else in Texas is shitty.

 

And for everyone else, WELCOME TO TEXAS TALK WITH FISTER AND TAYLOR ANNE!

 

[brewella deville 3]

Given Paul's discourse on human on robot sex, I think June just found out what BB8's mission actually is.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I grew up in the Lewisville/Flower Mound area, and Dallas isn't ALL bad. I've just turned into one of those people I used to hate that thinks Austin is the greatest thing ever and anywhere else in Texas is shitty.

 

And for everyone else, WELCOME TO TEXAS TALK WITH FISTER AND TAYLOR ANNE!

 

Nah there are a lot of shit parts of DFW, but ever since the horrible rich people started moving down to Austin all of us plebs have started making it cool again. So the arts scene has been getting better and better again.

 

[NathanGordon 1096]

I was an English Major, too! We're the best!

Me too! And now I have a high paying career doing important work respected by all my peers!

 

 

(｡•́︿•̀｡)

 

 

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the original British TV series initially focused on Steed by himself. The decision was made to increase viewership by adding an attractive woman, and they winked at this by naming her Emma Peel, or "m. appeal", meaning male appeal.

[jarrycanada 2483]

The other female lead in The Avengers was Joanna Lumley

 

 

She would later star in "Absolutely Fabulous", one of the most revered BBC comedies of all time

 

 

I love that show "abfab" my friend got to meet Joanna Lumley once.

 

[LeeWhite 0]

OMG! I loved the TV series, The Avengers. I remember being excited, but then later disappointed about the movie. Watching it again, I do. not. remember. any. of. this! It's so bad, I must have blocked it out. I feel like I have woken up on a couch like Mr. Steed and Mrs. Peel with no memory of this nonsense.

[DieFledermaus 12]

i love this podcast, but i couldn't follow this movie after minute 10, good luck with the questions you guys ask, this movie makes no sense.