Please think about how the podcast uses the word "retarded"

[joelkarnold 0]

Hi, I really like the podcast, but I'd like to encourage anyone hosting or appearing on the podcast to think critically about their use of the word 'retarded.' There have been a couple instances of the word's use recently: by Jackie Clarke last week, and in the latest podcast, June said "maybe I'm retarded" in reference to her not understanding a Smurf movie plot point, as if only an individual with limited cognitive ability could miss this. Outside of a clinical use, this word carries the same effect as negative terms used for identifying race or sexual orientation. Is it ok for the word 'gay' to be used to call something or someone stupid or negative? Using the word 'retarded' does something similar - it defines a group of individuals by one characteristic solely, here their cognitive limitations, thereby denying them individual personalities. It also defines this group of people as inferior, a target worthy of unfavorable comparisons such as this one. Even if it doesn't seem that June intended any malice toward individuals with intellectual disabilities, language has an impact, especially when that language is heard on this kind of platform. Using this label targets a group of people and says something about the user; depending on how you want to treat and be perceived by others, I'd encourage you to think about the word's use.

[BenV 8]

It's said in jest, with no malicious intent. I don't want to use the phrase "get over it", but I'm damn close to it.

[njs85 7]

Don't listen to the episodes mocking Dreamcatcher or Gigli. Your head might explode...

[FnFrank 0]

You know what, I don't know where to start. Over sensitivity and insane PC BS is more offensive, insulting, unsettling, antagonistic, and a host of other adjectives to me than the words retard or gay are to mentally handicapped/challenged (which seems just as offensive to me) or homosexual people. What if June had said "maybe I'm mentally challenged but..."? Would that be better? Maybe people shouldn't say bitch because it offends female dogs. You're retort would be female dogs are bitches and they can't understand anyway. Then I would say exactly.
Why even step out of your politically correct hypocritical bubble to try and enjoy comedic performances if you are so easily offended. And it truly is you and the other torch carriers who pretend to be offended so you can fill that whole in your ego with self righteousness as if it were a narcotic. The actual people that are supposedly victimized could care less.
You've heard the phrases "change the channel" or "tune to another station", well this is a podcast, which is virtually impossible to just stumble across by accident and can easily be rectified with a simple click. Who are you the self imposed FCC? The FCC says: "Material is offensive if it offends the "average" broadcast viewer or listener. Commission staff, and ultimately the Commissioners themselves, decide what the average person finds offensive." However, in the legal arena, judges have struggled to see if existing laws apply to the internet, and one of the major reasons cited for the difference between traditional broadcasting and the web was the “passive” nature of web pages, where you must actively find them via hyperlink or a search engine.
And is it just me or does the last line in joel's post seem to be a bit of a veiled threat? I'd encourage you to wash the sand out of your vagina and take up a new cause freedom of speech.
I could go on but this old argument is becoming gay and retarded. BOOM!

[Joe_Lalonde 1]

All Joel is saying is to think about what you say before you say it. Think about how the words you use could effect other people, also think about whether or not you are using the words correctly. How can an argument be gay? What gender is this argument and what evidence do you have that it is attracted to others of it's gender?

Personally I don't think "mentally handicapped" is more appropriate that "retarded" they are both broad terms that try to label a whole spectrum of different disabilities. To me it would be better to be specific about what disability the individual has that way you aren't generalizing. Also, just because I'm not bothered by the word "retarded" (or any of it's various forms) doesn't mean that other people aren't. Why shouldn't you take other people into consideration? I don't think it's that difficult. When you use gay or retarded incorrectly it's at the expense of people who are consistently targeted, you aren't treading new ground or being clever.

I think Louis CK said it best when talking about using "faggot" on stage. "If you're going to use nitro glycerin, read the warning label first" (I'm paraphrasing but it was something like that) Basically be aware of what the words you use mean, and what could happen if you use the words incorrectly.

[KajusX 1807]

Don't call stuff 'lame' because then you're offending the physically handicapped. And don't call someone who doesn't want to do something a 'pussy' because that's misogynistic. And don't call unpleasant people 'dicks' because then you're being misandristic. Yadda yadda yadda.

Retardation in its simplest form means 'delayed.' If June said 'maybe I'm retarded' in that she may have missed something or something didn't connect for her, then her act of 'getting it' was delayed.

Putting a ban on words doesn't free us. The user's Intention is key. Oversensitivity is the enemy.

[Brendanfrombeer 1]

I think the original poster was pretty reasonable in his request. Just think about it. If someone's using a slur and isn't aware how it makes certain people feel, it doesn't make them a horrible person, but it doesn't mean you cant point it out either. Being aware of how your communicating is important in comedy. If you say something offensive as part of a joke, that can be totally great. If you say something offensive that has nothing to do with your joke, you may just be distracting people from what's actually supposed to make them laugh.

My point is, use whatever language you like, but it's not wrong for someone to let you know how it makes them feel, and it may even change your mind. You may be saying something you're not actually trying to say.

[FnFrank 0]

Gay = lame or played out, retarded = stupid, which is exactly what this argument is (lame,played out, and stupid), and I've had it many times over various words.
Joe you said: "To me it would be better to be specific about what disability the individual has that way you aren't generalizing." So, by that logic the comment June made which Joel referenced should have been "maybe I have down syndrome"? Though arguably funnier, that is exponentially more offensive.
I know what you want and what you mean. She should have said "maybe I missed it" or "maybe I'm stupid". But first, you don't always get what you want. Second, she said retarded because obviously that's how she speaks, and that's why podcasts are cool because you can talk the way you actually talk without having a FCC gun to you're head like a scripted broadcast robot. And third, if she had said 'stupid' wouldn't that have offended stupid people. You know, stupid people aren't stupid because they want to be, they're born that way and they don't have a choice.
The word retard is short for mental retardation which is a broad term that used to be used to describe a disorder or condition appearing before adulthood that includes below-average general intellectual function (IQ's below 70), and a lack of the skills necessary for daily living. So, no one is actually retarded and the term was used correctly. In fact Joel is the one actually offending people by making the connection that intellectually disabled people are retarded. The word gay actually used to mean happy but for some reason the baby boomer generation decided it would mean homosexual. I don't know why, maybe because the relief of finally being able to be yourself out in the open made one feel gay. But then the X and Y generations chose to change the meaning again to lame. I don't know why, they just did, maybe in another 50 years it'll mean rich or strong or bad ass or pickle who knows. Gays just want to be gay and not be judged. I just want to use the term gay to describe things as lame and not be judged.
Three things I learned from the film Bambi: If you can't say anything nice, don't say any thing at all. Someday a bunch of guys are going to come to my forest and shoot my mom in the face. And Bambi is a great name for strippers because it reminds you of sexy little deer ass. (wait Bambi was a boy, so why take the name?). Let me tell you a joke with the don't say anything nice rule (aka politically correct rules) which isn't offensive to anybody: A person walks into a place and there's another person in that place. One person says something to the other person and the other person says something. There we go freaking hilarious.
How dare you use the great Louis CK to support your argument, if anything I should. If you want to make an argument about offending people Louis CK should definitely not be your go to guy. I think you missed the point that Louis CK, George Carlin, Doug Stanhope and tons of other people have been trying make. It's simple and basic, words have no power, people (you) give them power. It's not the word that you should be concerned with it's the user and how it is used. By giving the words power you help perpetuate their notions and undermine the victims. Until people realize this point there's just going to be a bunch of gay ass retards running around pissing each other off because they have nothing better to do. In fact I'd say there are several special interest groups which are highly invested in keeping this kind of cyclical hate mongering alive and well forever. You've heard the phrase pulling strings; well imagine a bunch of strings connected to puppets, each string is a word like gay, retard, bitch, faggot, cunt, nigger, deer, etc., if you take away the strings then they won't be there for people like Fox News to pull.

[joelkarnold 0]

I'm appreciate the replies for the conversation it starts. I realize in comedy there's always going to be a debate about where the line is or whether there even should be a line when it comes to language, content, and appropriateness. Being intentionally offensive can be hilarious, but it's done with intention. I think my comment applies to comedy and to this podcast, where I'm not sure the word was being used as a joke. I'd agree that June probably wasn't being malicious - it seemed like an offhand comment characterizing her reaction, but I wanted to respond to this instance and Jackie Clarke's in #15 where she said "that to me was so retarded it was beyond definition." If you'd like to debate the semantics rather than the bigger issue, this example refers to a situation, not a person.

Frank, I agree that people have a choice in how they respond to language, but I think it's a stretch to say that just because people can choose to give or not give words power that we shouldn't be somewhat sensitive in how we use language. Here I'm asking people to be 'sensitive' in the sense of being intentional with their language and being able to take responsibility for what they say. Calling someone else 'oversensitive' or simply telling them since you're not offended they shouldn't be is denying them their reaction. For many people language has power, and some language is inextricable from having historical, cultural, and emotional connotations.

I'm also not sure why your first post made so many assumptions about who I am and seemed to come from a place of anger. By your logic, I could say that you're simply being too reactionary and defensive about talking about language. By saying that I'd be denying your right to that reaction, and I don't believe that's right. To be clear, I'm not advocating any sort of ban on words - I'm asking for someone to consider their use, and if I'm saying anything more than that, it's certainly not a threat, but an entreaty for greater empathy.

[Joe_Lalonde 1]

Frank,

I'm not as upset as you probably think I am. I agree with a lot of what you said about how people load meaning onto words and how words can change. Also, in no way am I saying to ban words, I love the freedom podcasts have. What I would like to happen though, is that people be aware of what they are saying and whether or not they want that outcome. That doesn't mean don't say it, it just mean know that how you communicate can affect others in a way you may not know or be fully aware of.

Also, I don't think it's inappropriate for me to quote Louis. I am a huge fan of Louis and his work. The reason I quoted him is because before he uses those words he thinks about it. And that's what's most important to me, meaning what you say and saying what you mean. Frank, I really don't think we have complete opposite stances, in fact, I think we share a lot of similar opinions.

Also comedically speaking, I think there's a difference between complaining about the use of slurs because they are insensitive and complaining about the use of slurs because they're used for cheap laughs. It's easier to accept an insensitive word if it is attached to an original angle (for example Louis' n-word/nigger bit) but too often slurs are used for their shock value in tired perspectives. Personally, I find hack comedy way more offensive than any single word.

Here's the Louis interview that I quoted from, it's definitely worth a read. http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=128343426

[Podricast 14]

i personally dont want to listen to podcasts that are based on comedians riffing off of each other unscripted if the hosts are hindered by needing to be worried that they are going to offend mentally handicapped, a certain sexual orientation, or race.

i would much rather have them end up being offensive and then be able to choose who i listen to rather than have a selection of bland podcasts where everyone is choosing their words with a hyper sensitivity

[Joe_Lalonde 1]

You're implying that if a podcast isn't offensive then it will be bland and I don't feel like this is the case. I also feel like the podcast wouldn't necessarily be hindered by people thinking before they speak. In fact why shouldn't a person think before they say something?

Ultimately, if someone's intention is to be offensive or voice an opinion that others may not agree with then they should go ahead and say whatever. But if the person isn't intending to be offensive then they should be aware of what they're saying. To me it all depends on what the intention is, I don't agree with Nazis but at least they own up to what they say, as opposed to my grandma who says "kike" a lot and doesn't realize that it's offensive.

So in a way I agree with you about total freedom to say whatever and then choosing what you listen to after the fact. But if someone doesn't want to be offensive then it's their responsibility to not be offensive.

[Mark1326657704 0]

As a gay man who finds it more than a little annoying when people try to defend using the word gay to mean stupid or lame, I've had my struggles with the use of the word "retard". On the one hand, I want to say that it's overly PC to find it offensive. On the other hand, I hear people say the exact same thing about people who don't like hearing "that's so gay". So it's obvious to me that, just as straight people don't get to tell me not to find inappropriate uses of the word "gay" offensive, I don't have the right to tell mentally-challenged individuals (or those championing them) not to find inappropriate uses of the word "retard" offensive.
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I think that Joel's request was very reasonable, and I find some of the responses to it more than a little distasteful. The bottom line is that no one has the right to decide what other people should find offensive, and that goes DOUBLE for people who are NOT members of the oppressed minority in question. You're free to feel however you want, and, as far as I'm concerned, you're free to SAY whatever you want. But if you believe you have the privilege to dictate to others what they should or shouldn't find offensive, then you should at least possess the self-awareness to realize that you're a huge fucking asshole.
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I don't think there should be restrictions on what can be said on a comedy podcast, but I certainly don't see why a person can't ask people to THINK about what they say, which is what intelligent people should be doing anyway.

[nordel 0]

June, I think the only thing that you can do to avoid this controversy in the future and NOT risk offending someone's sensibilities is to say "I may just be a cunt, but..."

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

On the one hand, I hate anyone telling me what I can and can't say. On the other hand, my mom told me this story once when I was complaining about PC stuff I thought bullcrap. In college (this was in the 70s), she would go jogging and people would yell shit out of their cars as they drove by like, "hey bitch, wanna get screwed?!?!" You know, PC can't be ALL bad if it stopped people from saying shit like that to random women. Of course, I know it hasn't stopped everyone from saying that stuff, but still.

I am also keenly aware that describing something as "retarded" is a different matter entirely from directly insulting someone. I also feel that people have the right to think whatever they want, even if they find something I do offensive. Simultaneously, I feel they should maybe grow a pair and let it go. So... um... I guess this post is just a series of thoughts curving back on themselves? You're welcome?

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

On the one hand, I hate anyone telling me what I can and can't say. On the other hand, my mom told me this story once when I was complaining about PC stuff I thought bullcrap. In college (this was in the 70s), she would go jogging and people would yell shit out of their cars as they drove by like, "hey bitch, wanna get screwed?!?!" You know, PC can't be ALL bad if it stopped people from saying shit like that to random women. Of course, I know it hasn't stopped everyone from saying that stuff, but still.

I am also keenly aware that describing something as "retarded" is a different matter entirely from directly insulting someone. I also feel that people have the right to think whatever they want, even if they find something I do offensive. Simultaneously, I feel they should maybe grow a pair and let it go. So... um... I guess this post is just a series of thoughts curving back on themselves? You're welcome?

[Mr.Pete 79]

I think I agree with the folks saying "Just don't use it out of laziness." I think in comedy, gay, handicapped, etc. is all fair game for comedy, but you should use it intentionally. It's not THAT offensive, and I wouldn't oppose it strictly on grounds of offending, but it does offend a small percentage of people, and moreover its lazy in the same way as using "... sucks" is lazy.
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I used to use "retarded" on a fairly regular basis until I started hanging out with a friend whose sister had a mental disability. He never asked me not to say "retarded", and I had used it in front of him occasionally, but knowing that it was still slightly offensive to him, and also how much he cared for his sister, I naturally trained myself out of saying it. And it was really easy to break the habit by just thinking an extra few milliseconds how to rephrase the same thought to the point where I never had an urge to use it in the first place. I think lazy speech in general should be avoided as much as possible

[Mr.Pete 79]

I think I agree with the folks saying "Just don't use it out of laziness." I think in comedy, gay, handicapped, etc. is all fair game for comedy, but you should use it intentionally. It's not THAT offensive, and I wouldn't oppose it strictly on grounds of offending, but it does offend a small percentage of people, and moreover its lazy in the same way as using "... sucks" is lazy.
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I used to use "retarded" on a fairly regular basis until I started hanging out with a friend whose sister had a mental disability. He never asked me not to say "retarded", and I had used it in front of him occasionally, but knowing that it was still slightly offensive to him, and also how much he cared for his sister, I naturally trained myself out of saying it. And it was really easy to break the habit by just thinking an extra few milliseconds how to rephrase the same thought to the point where I never had an urge to use it in the first place. I think lazy speech in general should be avoided as much as possible

[njs85 7]

Personally, I think everyone here should introduce at least one mentally retarded person to the Earwolf family of podcasts. They are very loyal.

[njs85 7]

Personally, I think everyone here should introduce at least one mentally retarded person to the Earwolf family of podcasts. They are very loyal.

[macaronies 0]

I remember the most offensive thing I've ever said to piss someone off. I was playing a video game (pillars of dignity and sensitivity) and a delightful young man on the other team had spent the last 20 minutes or so notifying everyone else that we were all faggot nigger retards. When I smugly retorted "did your parents get divorced or something?" I thought I had the young rapscallion! Everyone stopped talking for a good 5 minutes. Then someone said "dude...that's not funny..." So that's the line I guess.

The point is this: reminding people of emotional trauma for funsies is kind of a dick thing to do. Most mentally handicapped people, and certainly their families, are perfectly cognoscente that they're different, that they will never have the same opportunities in love or life as everyone else, and that people at large think they're stupid and pitiable. Most have been or will be made fun of a whole bunch in school and for the rest of their lives, because people are shitty. The kids in that video game could give a fuck about that when they're throwing around words like retarded, but some of them have parents that split up. If you remind them of that then they're perfectly aware of why it's a shitty thing to throw around.

Anyways, it's pretty lazy not to swap the word retard out of your vocabulary just cause you're used to it. And the whole "everyone is too PC!" bullshit is a bunch of crap. Being a little sensitive to people who've dealt with shit you haven't does not preclude good humor or dark humor. It does preclude lazy humor and expressions that really don't have a place in the world post 7th grade.

[macaronies 0]

I remember the most offensive thing I've ever said to piss someone off. I was playing a video game (pillars of dignity and sensitivity) and a delightful young man on the other team had spent the last 20 minutes or so notifying everyone else that we were all faggot nigger retards. When I smugly retorted "did your parents get divorced or something?" I thought I had the young rapscallion! Everyone stopped talking for a good 5 minutes. Then someone said "dude...that's not funny..." So that's the line I guess.

The point is this: reminding people of emotional trauma for funsies is kind of a dick thing to do. Most mentally handicapped people, and certainly their families, are perfectly cognoscente that they're different, that they will never have the same opportunities in love or life as everyone else, and that people at large think they're stupid and pitiable. Most have been or will be made fun of a whole bunch in school and for the rest of their lives, because people are shitty. The kids in that video game could give a fuck about that when they're throwing around words like retarded, but some of them have parents that split up. If you remind them of that then they're perfectly aware of why it's a shitty thing to throw around.

Anyways, it's pretty lazy not to swap the word retard out of your vocabulary just cause you're used to it. And the whole "everyone is too PC!" bullshit is a bunch of crap. Being a little sensitive to people who've dealt with shit you haven't does not preclude good humor or dark humor. It does preclude lazy humor and expressions that really don't have a place in the world post 7th grade.

[bbqdano 1]

This topic is absurd. This is a comedy podcast and everything they say is not out of hate and if you can't tell that you should just stop listening.

[bbqdano 1]

This topic is absurd. This is a comedy podcast and everything they say is not out of hate and if you can't tell that you should just stop listening.

[Mr.Pete 79]

Perhaps a solution that is more sensitive to the mentally disabled:
FUCKTARD!
(not sure about adjective form though .. "That's fucktarded.".?. )