Episode 8.1 — Using a Famous Guest: Day 1

[Anonymous Coward 57]

Thinking to yourself "That wasn't my favorite" and then doing something productive.

I get frustrated when I see negative comments about podcasts because, simply put, you are opting to listen. It's free, and you are choosing to listen.
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Caroline, couldn't you argue that if you're not willing to read negative comments about podcasts because they're free, you'd be better off doing something productive and not reading any comments?
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There is another comedy forum I read where the moderators rule with a 'positive comment only' policy. That's their choice to make, so it's pointless fighting it. But since users are encouraged only to post positive content, posts are not discussions or debates, but cheerleading contests where users try to prove why they are a bigger fan than the others.
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Earwolf made a choice to put a forum here, just as they had episode comments on the previous version of the site. Clearly they wanted to move some of the discussion for their shows from places like AST or AV Club here. But my take is that if you only want positive comments, why bother having a forum in the first place?

[Bucho 188]

Because if you're the performer you want cheers and applause not boos and empty beer bottles. Did you even pay attention to anything Matt said Anonymous Coward?

[EvilBunnySanta 1]

So a forum should be a dick sucking contest and not a discussion?

[Bucho 188]

Are you sucking dick when you laugh in a comedy club? Or cheer at your favourite band?
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How odd. And erotic.

[Bucho 188]

Wait ... why a contest? Can't it just be an old fashioned orgy?

[EvilBunnySanta 1]

someone is salty, the thought that every single thing said on a DISCUSSION board should always be praise is down right retarded. There are lots of trolls out there and people going way too far with their negative comments, but everyone hates those people and their opinions shouldn't be given any attention. Now if someone listens to the show and likes the show don't you think they have the right to voice their opinion on something they thought could improve/change? And your analogy of laughing or cheering at a show is just dumb, because if you voice that you don't like a joke during the show then you're just some jack ass heckler who is interrupting the show. It's more like someone left a suggestion box at the exit.

I am playing devils advocate a bit though i haven't said anything bad about this show i've been for the most part loving it, but i do think an open discussion is good for a community to thrive.

[CavemenGoGo 0]

I just made this account after listening to Matt's intro of today's episode.
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I have listened to every single edition of the Earwolf Challenge, and I realized today that I am enjoying this free content which regularly improves the hours of sweating through the subways without giving anything back to Earwolf or this show. I thought I could take the 3 minutes to register and log-in to say that I love the Earwolf Challenge. At first I wasn't sold on the idea of a realty competition podcast due to the excess of "reality" in media nowadays. However, I gave it a shot because Matt Besser is always hysterical on this network and I usually trust anything with his name stamped on it.
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This is a great, great podcast. One of the things I love is that Matt Besser, while effortlessly funny, is also critical of art in an insightful way. While it is usually light-hearted, there is always a hard truth that each contestant can take away from their conversations. He is the sketch comedy bizarro version of Coach Eric Taylor from Friday Night Lights. The conversations about the show itself between Matt and the producers (who do an awesome job setting this up) are as entertaining as the show itself, and occasionally more so. The struggle that Matt has between being a host and judge is good for the show; it adds an undercurrent of conflict through the coaching sessions where the contestants have to really engage with him and pay attention or be left behind.
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A suggestion for the next Earwolf Challege: I would let Matt give the judges a quick line about the podcasts before listening to the segments. While the work should speak for itself, no one besides you three is going to listen to 8 or however many 2 minute clips from podcasts in a row. So instead of jumping right from one segment to the next just something like, "Okay judges, our next show is the F-Plus. This is a show where a roundtable of people take something weird or filthy written on the internet, read it aloud, and comment on it throughout." This way they don't get whiplash from going from Totally Laime to something about grown men defecating themselves.

[janus1172 11]

Oh hey, guys. Did you know that negative comments can be said in tactful and respectful ways? It's actually possible to disagree and not be asinine about it!

[Bucho 188]

Haha, I hear you Zach, I'm just messing. I've given plenty of feedback about stuff that I thought didn't work as much as I have about stuff that made me laugh my balls off. I was just calling back to what Matt said on the show equating positive message board comments to laughter/applause. It wasn't my analogy, it was his. And it's actually not as dumb as how you've somewhat awkwardly interpreted it.
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Stage work is a performance. Podcasting is a performance.
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Laughter and applause is the positive feedback for stage work. Forum/twitter/email compliments are the positive feedback for podcasts.
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Capiche?

[EvilBunnySanta 1]

hmm, now i feel dumb because now i feel like i invented an argument in my own head and tacked it onto you >_<

[Deelo 0]

First of all, I really enjoyed this episode, and it made me really look forward to hearing the submissions. Plus I love the heck out of Matt Besser.
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Second, Caroline you are awesome, and make some very good points. Thanks for standing up for positivity this and every other time you've done it around these parts.
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So for some perspective, there's probably a couple dozen people that post on these forums out of tens of thousands of people that listen to one or more Earwolf shows on a regular basis (I have no idea what the numbers actually are, probably higher than that). For every person that is driven to post something negative publicly there are literally thousands of people that listened to it and enjoyed it thoroughly but say nothing at all. For every person that posts something nice there are also literally thousands of people who echo that opinion but don't say anything at all. There are relatively few people who echo the opinions of the people who post the negative stuff because most people who don't like what they're listening to simply don't listen to it any more. If you want to be encouraged by the internet go look at itunes ratings for many of the podcasts out there, you will find a lot of average 5-star ratings, and relatively few below that, because for the most part the people compelled to rate and review stuff are giving positive reviews and ratings. Does that make the star system very useful? probably not, but it is encouraging nonetheless.
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So I'm not sure that the real issue is anonymity, though that definitely makes people a little more likely to be mean, it is that the vocal minority are given a much louder voice than they would otherwise have. Going back to Itunes, the few negative reviews are drowned out by the many more positive, the way they usually are in a real crowd. That is not always the case, particularly on forums like these, and twitter, where the negative stuff tends to have more weight, I think in large part just because people haven't totally been trained to say something when they like stuff as much as they have when they don't like stuff, but I think it is also just that negative comments hit harder.
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I have to nitpick on this part, I can't say for sure that there's been a rise in cynicism over the years, and especially driven by the internet, but I strongly suspect there has. I think you could probably back it up by looking at polls about how much people trust things like news and the government and celebrities over the years, but I haven't done the leg work. So maybe it is true that people have always said famous people suck, but I sincerely doubt it, particularly at the levels of today. The internet, and the many and multiple other forms of media out there let that cynicism fester and grow much more than it has in the past mostly because it is given a voice rather than being stifled in the less cynical masses. People have always glommed on when there has been something negative, like a scandal become public or something, I'll admit, but these days there are just so many sources of it that it is free flowing.

[Dan Telfer 266]

Sure, sure. Nick Thune is a FAMOUS guest. Finally, Bob and Dan will have a FAMOUS COMEDIAN to talk to. Hooray for Nick Thune.

[Anonymous Coward 57]

Bucho, obviously I didn't get my point across as clearly as I thought I did given your response. What I'm getting at is that I don't see a point in mindlessly cheering for effort made and banishing those who believe in saying anything negative. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating being a hater for the sake of it. But if you're making a contentious effort in hosting a forum, you are inviting people to give you feedback; which will always be a mixture of positive/negative, constructive/wasteful. Personally, I write posts only when I have something constructive to say (even if I say it badly, but I'm trying to fix that). If you decide that you want to police that so you only get positive feedback, is their any point in having a forum? Once you get past the first "EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL" post, you can't really get any more constructive, can you?

For the record, I fast-forwarded this episode after the first minute thirty until the coaching session music played. Kinda the Earwolf Challenge version of skipping ahead to Plugs. I'm only responding to what I'm reading in this thread.

[KajusX 1807]

I keep getting lost in this thread. Are we all supposed to be trolling, or....

[Bucho 188]

I don't know what to tell you AC, I already responded to this in my post to Zach. I do post responses in which I detail things that haven't worked for me. I also post responses in which I let performers know they've busted my guts. (Which, by the way is not "mindless" cheering for effort. It's thoughtful cheering for a mission accomplished.)
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And what's with this weird attitude some peeps seem to labour under that posting that you loved some host or guest or joke is somehow "brown-nosing" or "dick-sucking". It's an attitude that (a) fails to understand that, like Besser said, this is the primary way a podcaster or writer knows they're doing something worth their time and energy, and ( fails to grasp the entire concept of what "brown-nosing" or "sucking up" actually is.
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Brown-nosing is when you fawn over someone you're subordinate to or who has the power to give you something to advance your cause. It's done to bosses mostly, but also to sports team selectors, voters, kings and senseis. It's done because the brown-noser wants some kind of favour. But an audience member isn't subordinate to a performer. In fact, if anything, that dynamic is the opposite. The idea that it's an act of brown-nosing to let a performer know you enjoy their work is dopier than twenty-five dopes on dope.
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What favour is someone like a Besser or an Aukerman or a Notaro going to do for people who spend a minute or two to write in that they like their style(s)? Promote them to junior assistant manager? Select them for the first team in the big game? Award them their brown belt when they're an uncoordinated buffoon who can't even complete kata for shit!?!? IS THAT WHAT BESSER IS GOING TO DO FOR ME?!?!?!?!
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Nope. All that happens is that these artists can realise it's worth their time to carry on doing their thing and making their stuff and making our lives a better place. Just like they already do.

[Anonymous Coward 57]

Bucho, I hit send only to see another six replies following your post (I probably wouldn't have posted it if I saw those responses). Also I'm not trying to say that you only mindlessly cheer when praising things, my points were aimed at the concept of disallowing negative feedback/allowing positive feedback and not any particular person.

[Bucho 188]

No worries AC, it's all part of the fun. Sometimes message board shenanigans are even better when there's a few misunderstandings here and there.

[DirkGently 0]

where is all this negative criticism I'm hearing about? Twitter? I haven't really seen any of that hear. The ones that really layed into Matt & the show were Howie and Paul on the last Who Charted...

Was this one recorded outside in the rain? It sounds like rain.

[Mark1326657704 0]

@Dan Telfer: I know it's crazy, but for some reason I feel like you might not think that Nick Thune is famous at all.

@Bucho: Brown-nosers can be after nothing more than approval, you know.

[Bucho 188]

@Mark: Yeah, I'm sure approval from the boss or the coach or the king or the sensei might be nice. But, again, the dynamic is that the brown-nosing is done by a subordinate. WIth performance the dynamic is opposite. The performer isn't the boss. The crowd is paying the wages. If you've spent any time around artists at all you soon realise that if anyone is after approval in that situation it's the performer. The approval is given by the audience.

[CarolineEAnd 41]

@Dan: Maybe when the challenge is "Using a Famous Comedian Guest to Discuss Dinosaurs" you can be the guest
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Was that a slam? Did I do it right, Advocates of Internet Negativity? I'm afraid I didn't as I am an outspoken fan of Telfer and his particular brand of Jurassic humor. I'LL NEVER BE A REAL TROLL!

[JW Buchanan 1]

@Brendan L: "Poor comment choices?" "Pariah?" "Bully?" Thanks for nothing.
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I always hesitate to post my opinions on a comment board because I don't want people to treat me like some kind of troll because I have a differing opinion; and yet the only reason to join a board is because you feel like your point of view isn't being represented. In a way it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and here I am being called a pariah on some other board, in some other dark corner of the internet. Hooray. Someday I'll learn my lesson and just not bother with these things. See you later.

[Dan Telfer 266]

I know who Nick Thune is! Just being dumb. Also, I am not going to read anyone else's posts in case I am being trolled.

[Mike Q. 1]

I think this forum is more civil than most. I've definitely disagreed with some opinions, but for the most part, members lay out reasoning behind their opinions/reactions, and I always keep in mind that comedy taste is subjective.
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I don't think the powers that be are aiming for an all-rah-rah-all-the-time message board; I think Matt and Scott and Jeff, et al, welcome criticism - they've even addressed some concerns we have on here and on the podcast. I do think, however, that there's a difference in healthy, constructive criticism and outright assholery, and it's a difference in tone and content.
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We should feel free to say, "well I didn't like Podcast A because they didn't perform very well on the challenges for these reasons: X, Y, Z." We should even be free to say, "I just didn't get it, not for me."
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And you know what? We're even free to say "Podcast A sucks, anyone that likes them sucks, we all know Podcast B is the tits. Oh and O'DOYLE RULES!" But should you resort to rude and thoughtless negativity? I think that offers nothing of value; it's hurtful just to be hurtful. You could argue that mindless cheerleading posts are equally meaningless. But as Matt Besser says, it's nice for performers to read such kudos because it's affirmation from the audience that they don't immediately get because of the nature of the medium.
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In short, I think if you want to be critical, at least offer your thoughts/explanations for why you didn't like something. Don't be afraid to have a contrarian opinion, but don't be an asshole about it.

[JW Buchanan 1]

I question whether it's possible to express a contrary opinion on this board, because I've gone to great lengths to couch my comments or present them as a joke, and I still get called a bully; which fills me with INSANE BULLY RAGE!! BUUULLLLY SMASH! ARRRRRRRRRRGH!

O'Doyle Rules,
JW Buchanan