Musical Mondays Week 40 La La Land

[tomspanks 9039]

She's right though. He wants to open a club but being a part time keyboardist for an 80s party band probably doesn't bring in "buy a club right off the highway" type money. He was living in a crazy fantasy world if he thought it would happen for him doing what he was doing. At least Mia was working toward her goal. Going to bit part auditions isn't the Hollywood dream, but you have to put in the work unless there really is a "someone in the crowd" moment.

 

And how much money was Ryan Gosling making to buy that club. It's in a nice enough area that glamorous movie star can walk down the street without security. They are in LA. So, just buying the club if it were in terrible condition would be what? A few million dollars at least right? Is John Legend's band that huge? That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?

 

He saved a ton of money by not eating out and meal planning at home.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

I don't remember but does Ryan Gosling even call her to say he won't be there? I don't think he does and I'm thinking "What is your god damn problem? Scheduling mishaps happen and John Legend band is your job. You can't exactly bail on it but maybe you should. But maybe you can't. But at least tell her you aren't going to show up.

 

It also seems like the movie portrays that Mia is mildly surprised the auditorium is mostly empty. Wouldn't you, as the event planner, be able to ask the venue about ticket sales? Maybe you don't call them every day asking but even on the day of the show? Backstage? You can't ask "Ummm...I'm not hearing a lot of crowd noise. How many tickets are there? When you say 10, do you mean 10 left or 10 sold?"

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.

[grudlian. 4725]

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.

I don't know anything about theatre but maybe she couldn't find anything smaller? Looked like a 100 seats. How much smaller do legit theatres get?

 

I got the feeling she spent everything to get the venue and posters. Maybe a 3-4 run is too much money? Is it plausible that a theatre would have just a one day opening and the venue decides they might as well get a little money for one day than nothing?

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I don't know anything about theatre but maybe she couldn't find anything smaller? Looked like a 100 seats. How much smaller do legit theatres get?

 

I got the feeling she spent everything to get the venue and posters. Maybe a 3-4 run is too much money? Is it plausible that a theatre would have just a one day opening and the venue decides they might as well get a little money for one day than nothing?

 

I think it was the same theater they went to see Rebel Without a Cause. I think she picked it for sentimental/luck/destiny reasons.

[tomspanks 9039]

So, everyone is dumping on Seb/Ryan Gosling (including me a bit), but one of the real standouts was his piano playing. One of my pet peeves is when musicians on screen blatantly fake play their instruments and I thought his playing was totally believable!

 

Speaking of music, one of my favorite moments is that trumpet solo in the "fantasy" sequence (Epilogue on the soundtrack) and the last note, that double A. God, I love that. So I looked up the trumpet player, but apparently the actor/musician in the movie is not the trumpet soloist on the soundtrack! It's Wayne Bergeron on the soundtrack and I found out that he also played trumpet on the Incredibles soundtrack. I love that theme song so much. I recommend checking it out for anyone who loves kickass brass sections. Anyway, Wayne Bergeron has one more fan today!

[SaraK 1980]

That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?

 

I feel like the five year turn around is super short for both of them.

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Also, she's terrible at mailing out invitations.

I loved this first comment on that article (which was great btw thank you for sharing)

 

The real reason is that Chazelle isn't all that interested in Mia. That's why we get to hear multiple compositions by Seb, but only ever see Mia being ignored by casting directors while reciting other people's lines. It's the reason Seb is a fully-rounded character with flaws and desires and traits, and Mia is just a nice aspiring actress, with zero additional defining qualities. The character skates by on the scope of Stone's charms, which are considerable, but that doesn't quite overcome just how thinly sketched she is on paper.

 

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE

 

And it's so true! Any time she needs to say her own lines the camera cuts to another scene until she's finished. We never see her act in the movie where the character was built around her. We never actually see her do anything she is actually passionate about save be with Seb.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.

I thought it was supposed to be more than one night but she was so put off by the lackluster response that she quit then and there.

[Cam Bert 8145]

So, everyone is dumping on Seb/Ryan Gosling (including me a bit), but one of the real standouts was his piano playing. One of my pet peeves is when musicians on screen blatantly fake play their instruments and I thought his playing was totally believable!

Well apparently that was really him playing! He took three months and did his best to learn how to play in addition to learning to sing and dance. So I think I can cut him a break on the singing and dancing a little.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

She's right though. He wants to open a club but being a part time keyboardist for an 80s party band probably doesn't bring in "buy a club right off the highway" type money. He was living in a crazy fantasy world if he thought it would happen for him doing what he was doing. At least Mia was working toward her goal. Going to bit part auditions isn't the Hollywood dream, but you have to put in the work unless there really is a "someone in the crowd" moment.

 

And how much money was Ryan Gosling making to buy that club. It's in a nice enough area that glamorous movie star can walk down the street without security. They are in LA. So, just buying the club if it were in terrible condition would be what? A few million dollars at least right? Is John Legend's band that huge? That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?

Maybe John Legend is helping? I also wondered how long Seb was going to be able to keep it. He even joked that the one piano player was better than him. WTH?!?!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Maybe John Legend is helping? I also wondered how long Seb was going to be able to keep it. He even joked that the one piano player was better than him. WTH?!?!

No, he said the last piano player was worse than him but Seb was more of a pain in the ass.

 

He also said Seb would be making 1 grand A WEEK, so I imagine in 5 years he had more than enough to get a club.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

What I don't get is that she KNEW it was going to be something that made him miserable because HE KEPT TELLING HER it would be. So in my mind I still don't really understand why she is so surprised because he didn't want to go down that path until she convinced him to in order to make enough money to open the club.

Did she convince him, though? I felt like he overheard her convo with her mom where her mom was clearly saying something about how he'd probably never be able to afford that shit. You only hear Mia's side, but she's like, "Nah mom, he'll totally make it work." And then the next scene is him walking into the rehearsal with John Legend.

 

So, here's my take on Seb (beyond just "he sucks"). He's a selfish shithead that really doesn't learn much by the end of the movie. Mia supports him constantly, whether it's at the local jazz club or in a crowded arena. When they have their big fight when he comes back from tour to surprise her, the fight isn't because she's jealous that he's spending his time somewhere else or because he's "selling out" or anything like that; it's because they're both making sacrifices so that he can get what he wants, but he doesn't really seem to have any plan for obtaining that, so the sacrifices they're making - especially to their relationship - are for nothing.

 

Then after all the support she's given him, he can't even make her fucking show. It's literally THE ONE THING she's talked about for the whole movie. It should have been burned into his brain. I have to assume that at some point before the moment shown, John Legend (I will never call this character Keith; that's stupid) was like, "Hey, is such-and-such date good with you for a photo shoot?" and Seb must have said it was okay. The way that JL asks about it isn't a "Hey, can you do a photo shoot tonight?" It's a "Hey, remember that we have that photo shoot? That still works for you, right?" And, as y'all have pointed out, he had ample opportunity to say no! JL is so chill about basically everything in this movie that I find it hard to believe he would have been like, "WELL FUCK YOU THEN! YOU'RE OUTTA THE BAND!"

 

Then, when he does FINALLY show up to support Mia in Boulder City, he calls her a baby to her face. He literally says, "You're being a baby" because she's hurt about it all. He doesn't try to sympathize with the massive blow that failing at something you worked so hard at would have been to her. He doesn't apologize for not being there to support her when she really needed it. He doesn't do shit except insult her. Like, I don't even know why she went back with him. She should have said, "Number one: you can go fuck yourself. And number two: I'm going to drive myself to that audition. And number three: fuck yourself again."

 

The reason I asked about the dream ballet earlier is because I've always felt like it was something they both fantasized about in that moment, but watching it last night, I was like, "Oh, wait...is this him realizing what life could have been like for him if he wasn't such a selfish dickhead?" I feel like it would be more wistful for him because he's ultimately the one that ruined everything. I can't imagine Mia seeing him and being like, "Oh, what if I stayed with this fucker and wasn't a movie star with a husband in The Oneders and a baby whom I presumably care for more than this shitheel?"

 

And how much money was Ryan Gosling making to buy that club. It's in a nice enough area that glamorous movie star can walk down the street without security. They are in LA. So, just buying the club if it were in terrible condition would be what? A few million dollars at least right? Is John Legend's band that huge? That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?

I always assumed that he and John Legend owned it together.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

No, he said the last piano player was worse than him but Seb was more of a pain in the ass.

I think Cinco meant that Seb jokes that the other piano player is better than him.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I think Cinco meant that Seb jokes that the other piano player is better than him.

Ah I see now. Yeah I believe you're correct. It's hard to understand which "he" it is when you're talking about 2 dudes lol.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Did she convince him, though? I felt like he overheard her convo with her mom where her mom was clearly saying something about how he'd probably never be able to afford that shit. You only hear Mia's side, but she's like, "Nah mom, he'll totally make it work." And then the next scene is him walking into the rehearsal with John Legend.

True, but it's still overhearing that conversation that convinces him to walk into that rehearsal and then when he brings it up during their fight she doesn't deny that's what she wanted for him.

[tomspanks 9039]

Well apparently that was really him playing! He took three months and did his best to learn how to play in addition to learning to sing and dance. So I think I can cut him a break on the singing and dancing a little.

 

Not enough hours in a day.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Well apparently that was really him playing! He took three months and did his best to learn how to play in addition to learning to sing and dance. So I think I can cut him a break on the singing and dancing a little.

Miles Teller also learned to play drums for Whiplash. I definitely like it when people at least look mildly competent with an instrument they are supposed to be playing.

[grudlian. 4725]

The reason I asked about the dream ballet earlier is because I've always felt like it was something they both fantasized about in that moment, but watching it last night, I was like, "Oh, wait...is this him realizing what life could have been like for him if he wasn't such a selfish dickhead?" I feel like it would be more wistful for him because he's ultimately the one that ruined everything. I can't imagine Mia seeing him and being like, "Oh, what if I stayed with this fucker and wasn't a movie star with a husband in The Oneders and a baby whom I presumably care for more than this shitheel?"

I assume we have all been in at least one not great relationship in our lives. And every once in a while, I still think back on the worst one I've been in and think "If I had done this or she had said that, then..."

 

Then nothing. We weren't right for each other. I don't blame either of us (maybe me a bit more) We'd be miserable. That doesn't stop the what if from popping up occasionally. It makes sense that it would pop up for Emma Stone and certainly of she ran into Ryan Gosling out of the blue.

[grudlian. 4725]

 

Not enough hours in a day.

Ryan Gosling was in Mickey Mouse Club. Wasnt he at least doing some singing and dancing back then? He should at least be competent even if he's out of practice.

Miles Teller also learned to play drums for Whiplash. I definitely like it when people at least look mildly competent with an instrument they are supposed to be playing.

Didn't Miles Teller already play drums before Whiplash? Not jazz great level but okay at drumming level?

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Did she convince him, though? I felt like he overheard her convo with her mom where her mom was clearly saying something about how he'd probably never be able to afford that shit. You only hear Mia's side, but she's like, "Nah mom, he'll totally make it work." And then the next scene is him walking into the rehearsal with John Legend.

 

So, here's my take on Seb (beyond just "he sucks"). He's a selfish shithead that really doesn't learn much by the end of the movie. Mia supports him constantly, whether it's at the local jazz club or in a crowded arena. When they have their big fight when he comes back from tour to surprise her, the fight isn't because she's jealous that he's spending his time somewhere else or because he's "selling out" or anything like that; it's because they're both making sacrifices so that he can get what he wants, but he doesn't really seem to have any plan for obtaining that, so the sacrifices they're making - especially to their relationship - are for nothing.

 

Then after all the support she's given him, he can't even make her fucking show. It's literally THE ONE THING she's talked about for the whole movie. It should have been burned into his brain. I have to assume that at some point before the moment shown, John Legend (I will never call this character Keith; that's stupid) was like, "Hey, is such-and-such date good with you for a photo shoot?" and Seb must have said it was okay. The way that JL asks about it isn't a "Hey, can you do a photo shoot tonight?" It's a "Hey, remember that we have that photo shoot? That still works for you, right?" And, as y'all have pointed out, he had ample opportunity to say no! JL is so chill about basically everything in this movie that I find it hard to believe he would have been like, "WELL FUCK YOU THEN! YOU'RE OUTTA THE BAND!"

 

Then, when he does FINALLY show up to support Mia in Boulder City, he calls her a baby to her face. He literally says, "You're being a baby" because she's hurt about it all. He doesn't try to sympathize with the massive blow that failing at something you worked so hard at would have been to her. He doesn't apologize for not being there to support her when she really needed it. He doesn't do shit except insult her. Like, I don't even know why she went back with him. She should have said, "Number one: you can go fuck yourself. And number two: I'm going to drive myself to that audition. And number three: fuck yourself again."

 

The reason I asked about the dream ballet earlier is because I've always felt like it was something they both fantasized about in that moment, but watching it last night, I was like, "Oh, wait...is this him realizing what life could have been like for him if he wasn't such a selfish dickhead?" I feel like it would be more wistful for him because he's ultimately the one that ruined everything. I can't imagine Mia seeing him and being like, "Oh, what if I stayed with this fucker and wasn't a movie star with a husband in The Oneders and a baby whom I presumably care for more than this shitheel?"

 

 

I always assumed that he and John Legend owned it together.

 

In defense of Seb, “the one thing” he was supposed to remember is actually the one thing he remembered. He forgot the photo shoot, not Mia’s show. And, yes, he totally fucks up, but like he said to Mia getting to be in a band like that is a huge deal. All the people in the traffic jam at the beginning would kill for an opportunity like that. So, yeah, he probably should just gone to her show. John Legend would have indeed understood - and that’s the tragedy. He’s so afraid he might lose even a portion of his dream that he can’t see how cool Legend is being.

 

As for calling her a “baby.” That’s tough love, my man. He believes in her even after she’s lost faith in herself. She’s totally given up at that point so, no, she’s not going to tell him to “fuck off, I’ll drive myself.” The point is she’s 100% NOT going to do that and he knows that.

 

Also, I wouldn’t say he “ruined” everything. They both ruined everything. Everyone is acting like he’s a total dick for surprising her but all he wanted was for her to join him on tour. She says “no,” for her own reasons. Neither of them are right or wrong, though. There relationship ends - not because they don’t love each other - but because he knows she’s going to achieve her dream and she needs to put everything into that. This means the travel and time apart (that was already an issue in their relationship) is only going to get worse. Of course, the dream ballet illustrates how they could have made it work, but, like I said before, that’s only with the benefit of hindsight. Also, when we see the fantasy of their home life, it’s clear that in order for them to be together, it would have meant compromising the full extent of her potential. They’re successful, but only modestly so.

 

When I think of this movie, I think of wise words I once heard:

 

 

Truer words have never been spoken. Everything else is either luck or a fairytale.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Didn't Miles Teller already play drums before Whiplash? Not jazz great level but okay at drumming level?

Sorry, yeah. You're right. Teller played drums, but he had never played jazz drums before, so he had to learn how to play that style and practiced a shitload. The blisters on his hands were not effects....

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I assume we have all been in at least one not great relationship in our lives. And every once in a while, I still think back on the worst one I've been in and think "If I had done this or she had said that, then..."

 

Then nothing. We weren't right for each other. I don't blame either of us (maybe me a bit more) We'd be miserable. That doesn't stop the what if from popping up occasionally. It makes sense that it would pop up for Emma Stone and certainly of she ran into Ryan Gosling out of the blue.

 

^^^ This. Especially if she just happened into his club that he ended up naming the name she came up with. That’s going to stir up some feelings for sure.

 

At the end of the movie, I feel like Mia truly loves Shades...but she was - and probably still is - passionate about Seb. The question is: wouldn’t it be nice if we could have both? And, of course, that would be ideal. But, as the movie shows us, and C Montgomery Burns tells us, many times, that’s just not the case.

[grudlian. 4725]

At the end of the movie, I feel like Mia truly loves Shades...but she was - and probably still is - passionate about Seb. The question is: wouldn’t it be nice if we could have both? And, of course, that would be ideal.

I'm not sure a threesome is the answer...

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I'm not sure a threesome is the answer...

 

IT’S ALWAYS THE ANSWER!

[Cameron H. 23786]

Unless I'm missing something completely, she's not like doing plays or performing anywhere - she's just doing auditions until he tells her to stop doing that and write her own thing. But he tells her this not knowing if she has any talents in writing! I was really happy that they did not end up together.

 

But the thing is, there is no work. She’s competing with - not only the people in the traffic jam - but millions of others. She can’t get anything because, as she says, she’s competing with all these people who are prettier or more talented. She tells him in passing that she used to write and that’s enough for him. If you can’t get a job speaking someone else’s words, speak your own. It’s your basic Tommy Wiseau/Lin-Manuel Miranda ticket to success. It doesn’t matter whether she has talent or not. She can write, so she can do it. It’s about being proactive rather than reactive.

 

The beauty of Seb - and the reason he is the way he is - is he understands that in order to just survive in Hollywood, you have to be your biggest fan. Because you’re going to get rejected - a lot. For your own sanity, you have to be ready to say, “Fuck these people! They should be so lucky to be bathed in my brilliance.” No, it doesn’t make you likable, but at least it will give you the strength to keep going.