Episode 190 - Hurricane Heist: LIVE!

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

This is what I'm thinking. This money will pass every counterfeit test because it's not counterfeit. A store isn't going to bother checking a bill against a database of stolen serial numbers. But what about banks? Would the Treasury Department or Mint give banks a database to track incoming money? Can the treasury track where the currency the destroy comes from (I suspect they can but don't know)?

 

If the treasury can track incoming bills to be destroyed, then you're probably screwed. They would eventually realize they are getting a lot of bills from a specific region. Then narrow it to a specific state or city. Down to a bank or branch. Figure out the armored car delivery and where they pick up cash from. If you start seeing lots of bills from specific stores, you just get feds to hang out there until the robbers come back once you've figured out a general spending pattern. It also helps that these criminals are certainly on camera the entire time they are robbing the treasury.

 

You could probably bypass a lot of this by living a mildly nomadic lifestyle. If you travel the country, it's going to be much harder for them to get an idea on where you're spending your money next. And I assume there's a time delay on when the Treasury could even track the money of a few days if not weeks or longer. So, you might be good there but, again, you're probably super famous right now. You're picture from the robbery is everywhere and the news is going to tell everyone to watch for people spending cash for every purchase.

 

You could put your money in a bank, but a bank is going to question opening a new account and depositing tons of cash. I'm sure that gets checked and I'm sure the treasury is going to be interested especially after they got robbed. So, banks are definitely out for a while if not forever unless you're depositing small amounts over a long period of time.

 

So, I think this is definitely plausible to get away with it and live a life. I think it would be a weird, tedious life where you probably couldn't spend tons of money on large ticket items that draw attention to themselves with large cash purchases. Who steals $600 million without wanting to splurge a little bit?

So then, the plan is ... get a cashier's check, buy a boat, head south, live like two kings and a queen in ... Cuba? Zihuatanejo? Where in Central/South America would be the best place to live out life on the lamb?

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

I just re-watched the movie (WHY?!?) and did anyone else catch Will's line about how they hope to be able to mitigate and maybe even outright prevent hurricanes through their study?

 

Uh, by my recollection, that's EXACTLY how you get Geostorms.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I just re-watched the movie (WHY?!?) and did anyone else catch Will's line about how they hope to be able to mitigate and maybe even outright prevent hurricanes through their study?

 

Uh, by my recollection, that's EXACTLY how you get Geostorms.

 

Will is the Creator of Geostorms!

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I just re-watched the movie (WHY?!?) and did anyone else catch Will's line about how they hope to be able to mitigate and maybe even outright prevent hurricanes through their study?

 

Uh, by my recollection, that's EXACTLY how you get Geostorms.

Will is the Creator of Geostorm! They use all that money to build the first Geostorm machine

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

I was an all-county basketball player, so I got a taste of that kind of local privilege. But I also hated high school and most of the people in my town, so I got out and beyond it as soon as I was able. I think you sorta have to hate high school in order to move beyond it ... if your high school experience was too good, then you can be crippled by it.

 

"In high school there’s generally one acceptable way to be, and it’s dictated by the exigencies of dating. There are the people who try to be that way, and then there are the other, clunky, disastrously uncool individuals, the nerds, who swim upstream in those waters.

...

Real Life is actually a lot more like high school. The common denominator prevails. Excellence is not always recognized or rewarded. What we watch on our screens, whom we elect, are determined to a large extent by public polls. Looks count. A lot. And unlike the best of the college experience, when ideas and solutions somehow seem attainable if you just get up early, stay up late, try hard enough, and find the right source or method, things on the outside sometimes seem vast and impossible, and settling, resigning oneself, or hiding and hunkering down becomes the best way of getting along."

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

So, I think this is definitely plausible to get away with it and live a life. I think it would be a weird, tedious life where you probably couldn't spend tons of money on large ticket items that draw attention to themselves with large cash purchases. Who steals $600 million without wanting to splurge a little bit?

You need one of these

 

[RyanSz 3140]

BTW, is Paul still salty about that hdtgm.com that some a-hole is siting on? His Ben & Jerry's commercial spot seems to indicate so

They could have gone the route and bought every domain iteration to cover their bases, but then they'd probably end up like Toys R Us which owned HUNDREDS of domains with "R Us" in the name, eventually adding fuel to the bankruptcy fire.

[RyanSz 3140]

The money is going to be shredded by the US Treasury.

Serial numbers on bank notes don't get reused.

The US Treasury is more than likely to keep a record of all bank notes that they destroy.

 

... all the money that is being stolen therefor has all of their serial numbers on record being at the same place and time. They wanted to steal traceable money?

This is literally the plot of Den of Thieves. The gang of crooks are robbing the Treasury of $30 million in bills that are going to be shredded, because their serial numbers ARE being deleted from the Treasury records. I did some research and it's vague at best about how serial numbers are changed over the years but they can include letters and even star symbols so it's plausible enough to get away with $30 million and not be found out for a lengthy period of time, $600 million on the other hand would be rather difficult to get out clean.

[grudlian. 4725]

You need one of these

 

I thought about this but I only understand money laundering in theory. Wouldn't the money launderer run into the same problems if the bills can be tracked at all? Couldn't the treasury find the source of the bills the same way I speculated but now through the business fronts the launderer uses? I guess that's the money launderers problem but they could certainly flip on you.

[PollyDarton 1807]

I thought about this but I only understand money laundering in theory. Wouldn't the money launderer run into the same problems if the bills can be tracked at all? Couldn't the treasury find the source of the bills the same way I speculated but now through the business fronts the launderer uses? I guess that's the money launderers problem but they could certainly flip on you.

 

The actual money itself is a factor that doesn't really change. Money laundering is about creating a plausible method to legitimately earn the cash. It is explained really well in Breaking Bad if you ever saw it. Walt's wife Skylar buys a carwash and runs the business like usual, but at the end of the day she secretly upsells all the car washes to waxes and deluxe services and then deposits their illicit cash with the money they legitimately earned from the business... slowly funneling in their meth money making it clean so to speak. It looks totally legit from the outside.

 

It seems to me they would have to go to the gulf, buy a big boat with their cash and sail out to south america with as much of it as they could. There's a good chance that money would still work in another country but all in very under the table kinds of ways... but that's possibly a weird assumption?

 

It is also possible to try a few schemes like opening bank accounts with it, then immediately turning around and closing their account and getting a cashier's check (someone may have said this already) and then turning around and getting FRESH cash for that check... but I imagine you can only do that so many times before you get caught.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

The actual money itself is a factor that doesn't really change. Money laundering is about creating a plausible method to legitimately earn the cash. It is explained really well in Breaking Bad if you ever saw it. Walt's wife Skylar buys a carwash and runs the business like usual, but at the end of the day she secretly upsells all the car washes to waxes and deluxe services and then deposits their illicit cash with the money they legitimately earned from the business... slowly funneling in their meth money making it clean so to speak. It looks totally legit from the outside.

I totally remember that moment, which is funny because seeing all of those stacks of cash made me think of this moment:

 

 

It seems to me they would have to go to the gulf, buy a big boat with their cash and sail out to south america with as much of it as they could. There's a good chance that money would still work in another country but all in very under the table kinds of ways... but that's possibly a weird assumption?

Dude, I'm saying ... Zihuatanejo!

 

[RyanSz 3140]

 

The actual money itself is a factor that doesn't really change. Money laundering is about creating a plausible method to legitimately earn the cash. It is explained really well in Breaking Bad if you ever saw it. Walt's wife Skylar buys a carwash and runs the business like usual, but at the end of the day she secretly upsells all the car washes to waxes and deluxe services and then deposits their illicit cash with the money they legitimately earned from the business... slowly funneling in their meth money making it clean so to speak. It looks totally legit from the outside.

 

It seems to me they would have to go to the gulf, buy a big boat with their cash and sail out to south america with as much of it as they could. There's a good chance that money would still work in another country but all in very under the table kinds of ways... but that's possibly a weird assumption?

 

It is also possible to try a few schemes like opening bank accounts with it, then immediately turning around and closing their account and getting a cashier's check (someone may have said this already) and then turning around and getting FRESH cash for that check... but I imagine you can only do that so many times before you get caught.

That was maybe the most detailed way laundering was ever shown on TV or film, the problem being that by that time Walt had made so much money making meth that there would never be a way to fully launder it by the time Skylar or he were dead. Another couple great ways laundering was shown were in The Town and Hell or High Water, albeit with much smaller amounts of money. In those examples the thieves went to places where money was turned around quickly like a strip club or a casino. They don't get a return from going to the strip club, but they offload some of the dirty money for a night on the town with no out of pocket expense, while in the casino they may lose some money but can also increase their earnings if they win big. In the case of Hell or High Water, Chris Pine's character gets his money converted into chips with his dirty money and then waits in the bar for an hour or two and then takes the chips back to get switched for clean money.

 

In a case of $600 million, the thieves would have to buy multiple high end businesses to handle that amount of cash, which would raise some eyebrows in seeing these people buying or investing in numerous places, but if done right would work.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Time to talk about the other movie that has clearly influenced the action in this awful movie: the all-time classic, Die Hard.

 

There are obviously quick parallels - classy international thieves in nice suits, hacking of computers to enter vaults, undercover and well organized entry into the building, a suave leader (although Perkins is no Hans Gruber). But then of course we get to the more overt connections: when Will and Maggie are on the roof of the mall after somehow climbing down from being ragdolled up in the air by the Hurricane, they run away from a tidal wave of water and jump off the edge of the mall, swinging in and landing:

 

That exactly mimics the famous scene from Die Hard where John McClane ties a fire hose to his waist and jumps off the exploding roof of the Nakatomi Tower, to swing down, hit a window, and land.

 

 

More conspicuously, in both films we have a pair of unhinged terrorist brothers, and after the younger one is killed in wacky ways ("Now I have a machine gun, ho-ho-ho"/Flying hubcaps) the elder one goes into a psychotic rage and swears to kill the guy who did it (although in this one he's convinced it's Maggie).

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

The part that I found craziest was at the end when Breeze and Maggie are trying to get out of the truck and to safety, they're driving alongside Will's truck, with the Evening Wear Hackers in the back of the truck. Maggie tells Breeze to hold the truck steady so she can jump over to the truck, which she does. Then Breeze needs to jump over, so he asks the Lady Hacker to take the wheel so he can jump, which he kind of does, nearly dying yet again. Then they try to help the Evening Wear Hackers jump over, reaching out and trying to save them, disregarding their past deeds and coming together as human beings united for a cause. But if Lady Hacker makes it over to the truck, how will Gentleman Hacker survive? This is a terrible plan that can't possibly work out for them. And indeed, after trying to save the Evening Wear Hackers from the Hurricane, the Hurricane eats them and Maggie, Will and Breeze all shrug and go, 'meh, we tried'. Why do the Evening Wear Hackers sacrifice themselves for these chuckleheads to jump to safety? Why does no one remember the noble price these two paid?

[grudlian. 4725]

 

The actual money itself is a factor that doesn't really change. Money laundering is about creating a plausible method to legitimately earn the cash. It is explained really well in Breaking Bad if you ever saw it. Walt's wife Skylar buys a carwash and runs the business like usual, but at the end of the day she secretly upsells all the car washes to waxes and deluxe services and then deposits their illicit cash with the money they legitimately earned from the business... slowly funneling in their meth money making it clean so to speak. It looks totally legit from the outside.

 

It seems to me they would have to go to the gulf, buy a big boat with their cash and sail out to south america with as much of it as they could. There's a good chance that money would still work in another country but all in very under the table kinds of ways... but that's possibly a weird assumption?

 

It is also possible to try a few schemes like opening bank accounts with it, then immediately turning around and closing their account and getting a cashier's check (someone may have said this already) and then turning around and getting FRESH cash for that check... but I imagine you can only do that so many times before you get caught.

Opening multiple bank accounts was my thinking as well.

 

The first thing I would do, even before the robbery is buy some fake identities. Driver's licenses, birth certificates, whatever I need to open a bank account. I'd also get passports for those identities. Let's say 5 new identities. I'd also have a disguise planned. Grow a beard just to shave it, hair dye, fake glasses, anything to make me look different. I'd also get a storage shed somewhere to hold a pallet of money.

 

Then you start opening bank accounts in large cities. I'd probably do a few large chain banks to make access to the money a bit easier. Give each bank a different identity and put in $10,000 because larger than $10,000 in cash requires IRS forms to be filled out. Get your debit card. Repeat five times that day once for each identity. Then drive to the next city. Make sure not to use a fake identity at the same bank and you're probably good. This way you're effectively washing $50,000 a day depending on drive time between cities.

 

Once you've opened a few accounts with each identity in each city, go back and close them. Get your cashiers check and the moneys washed. You can test your account with your a debit card (and pull out money to launder it there as well). Repeat this process in a few different regions of the country. But you could do a quarter million a week in each region of the country. If you pass any casinos as you drive around, change out money there as someone mentioned from Hell Or High Water. I'd also think buying a new used car every once in a while just to be harder to track as you drive across the country.

 

This is a really tedious way to do it all but it keeps you mobile. If you can keep records of which identities you've used where, I think it would be effective. Once you've got a few million dollars washed, have a separate fake identity to open a final bank account in where you can just store cleaned money. Use one of the passports to leave the country and you're good. It doesn't get your full cut of $600 million, but you've got living money forever. If you keep up on your storage locker with a pallet of money, you could always do the whole thing again in a year or two.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

 

The actual money itself is a factor that doesn't really change. Money laundering is about creating a plausible method to legitimately earn the cash. It is explained really well in Breaking Bad if you ever saw it. Walt's wife Skylar buys a carwash and runs the business like usual, but at the end of the day she secretly upsells all the car washes to waxes and deluxe services and then deposits their illicit cash with the money they legitimately earned from the business... slowly funneling in their meth money making it clean so to speak. It looks totally legit from the outside.

 

It seems to me they would have to go to the gulf, buy a big boat with their cash and sail out to south america with as much of it as they could. There's a good chance that money would still work in another country but all in very under the table kinds of ways... but that's possibly a weird assumption?

 

It is also possible to try a few schemes like opening bank accounts with it, then immediately turning around and closing their account and getting a cashier's check (someone may have said this already) and then turning around and getting FRESH cash for that check... but I imagine you can only do that so many times before you get caught.

 

Another really great show that describes money laundering is Leverage (which is an excellent show about thieves and is way more fun than this piece of shit yet is somehow executive produced by Dean Deviln the guy who made GEOSTORM) In an episode they talk about how gyms make PERFECT money laundering operations because people will naturally buy a membership... then not go. So it makes sense for them to have more "clients" and membership fees than they really do if anyone comes sniffing around. They were trying to entice the bad guy to leave his money with them. I love this show far more than is reasonable and know far too much about each episode than is healthy. I'm proud I didn't go off the rails... (which is funny because they reroute a train in this episode. I tried . OK I TRIED)

[PollyDarton 1807]

That was maybe the most detailed way laundering was ever shown on TV or film, the problem being that by that time Walt had made so much money making meth that there would never be a way to fully launder it by the time Skylar or he were dead.

 

Yes... it was one of the great things about that show... that their incredible wealth got way ahead of them. That little vignette when Skylar was cooking the books is just such a clean and simple way to show how to potentially launder money. If you are someone who's just making just enough extra that you need to account for, you would be able to do something just like this and ostensibly get away with it forever.

 

Then you start opening bank accounts in large cities. I'd probably do a few large chain banks to make access to the money a bit easier. Give each bank a different identity and put in $10,000 because larger than $10,000 in cash requires IRS forms to be filled out.

 

Like Carmela in the Sopranos. She opened accounts with a few of the major stockbroking firms, with just $9,900 at each place.

Getting into the stocks game would only work if you re-set up your life somewhere though because having a stock portfolio is more of a long game kind of thing.

 

This is a really tedious way to do it all but it keeps you mobile. If you can keep records of which identities you've used where, I think it would be effective. Once you've got a few million dollars washed, have a separate fake identity to open a final bank account in where you can just store cleaned money. Use one of the passports to leave the country and you're good. It doesn't get your full cut of $600 million, but you've got living money forever. If you keep up on your storage locker with a pallet of money, you could always do the whole thing again in a year or two.

 

All-in-all mobile is really the truth in this whole scenario. With that money you would definitely be living like Bonnie and Clyde until you can get a nest egg of legit cash saved up and then I guess you just start over with new identities. You would still have to probably permanently relocate out of the states.

 

The good news though is that whether you are hiding abroad, sneaking around South America, or maybe laying low in Asia you would be staying in the BEST hotels and eating the finest food in the world... that cash ain't gonna burn itself!

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Opening multiple bank accounts was my thinking as well.

 

The first thing I would do, even before the robbery is buy some fake identities. Driver's licenses, birth certificates, whatever I need to open a bank account. I'd also get passports for those identities. Let's say 5 new identities. I'd also have a disguise planned. Grow a beard just to shave it, hair dye, fake glasses, anything to make me look different. I'd also get a storage shed somewhere to hold a pallet of money.

 

Then you start opening bank accounts in large cities. I'd probably do a few large chain banks to make access to the money a bit easier. Give each bank a different identity and put in $10,000 because larger than $10,000 in cash requires IRS forms to be filled out. Get your debit card. Repeat five times that day once for each identity. Then drive to the next city. Make sure not to use a fake identity at the same bank and you're probably good. This way you're effectively washing $50,000 a day depending on drive time between cities.

 

Once you've opened a few accounts with each identity in each city, go back and close them. Get your cashiers check and the moneys washed. You can test your account with your a debit card (and pull out money to launder it there as well). Repeat this process in a few different regions of the country. But you could do a quarter million a week in each region of the country. If you pass any casinos as you drive around, change out money there as someone mentioned from Hell Or High Water. I'd also think buying a new used car every once in a while just to be harder to track as you drive across the country.

 

This is a really tedious way to do it all but it keeps you mobile. If you can keep records of which identities you've used where, I think it would be effective. Once you've got a few million dollars washed, have a separate fake identity to open a final bank account in where you can just store cleaned money. Use one of the passports to leave the country and you're good. It doesn't get your full cut of $600 million, but you've got living money forever. If you keep up on your storage locker with a pallet of money, you could always do the whole thing again in a year or two.

 

What about ATMs They now take cash deposits. Couldn't you also use those to help you move some of your money and get clean cash back in return? Clearly only small chunks of of it once you had established yourself but would that help you? Also you would want to buy in businesses that dealt mostly in cash or make one of your id's a person with a cash based business . A car wash would actually be perfect for that.

[PollyDarton 1807]

 

What about ATMs They now take cash deposits. Couldn't you also use those to help you move some of your money and get clean cash back in return? Clearly only small chunks of of it once you had established yourself but would that help you? Also you would want to buy in businesses that dealt mostly in cash or make one of your id's a person with a cash based business . A car wash would actually be perfect for that.

 

The gym thing you mentioned up there is pretty genius.

Strip clubs would be good too as they funnel in a lot of random cash. You can claim that a customer bought a lot more dances and personal services than they actually did. You base what you sell around how ever many customers you actually bring in and it doesn't look that suspicious. Also since it is a performative service there is no way of proving the customer did or did not receive it (unlike when you are using utilities, retail goods, or food in other businesses... you didn't sell that extra prime rib when your numbers of prime rib on your inventory stayed the same.)

[grudlian. 4725]

All-in-all mobile is really the truth in this whole scenario. With that money you would definitely be living like Bonnie and Clyde until you can get a nest egg of legit cash saved up and then I guess you just start over with new identities. You would still have to probably permanently relocate out of the states.

 

The good news though is that whether you are hiding abroad, sneaking around South America, or maybe laying low in Asia you would be staying in the BEST hotels and eating the finest food in the world... that cash ain't gonna burn itself!

How easy is it to exchange money internationally? I've been to Europe and I remember banks at airports being able to do it. There were functionally ATMs that would exchange US currency for Euros but I assume you can't do millions or even thousands without raising some eyebrows. This would be a very long, boring way off doing it.

 

I would think any international casino would be perfect if you can get enough cash out of the US (provided they exchange money which I'm sure a large casino would). But getting a couple million in cash, even if it was all hundreds, is a lot of space. According to Google, $1 million in $100 bills is about 1 cubic foot. If you're willing to stuff a couple suitcases with $100 bills, you could get a few million out so long as you don't get stopped by customs somewhere.

 

Couple this with the money from driving around the country opening bank accounts and you could certainly live a comfortable life. Other than the first few months on the run around the US, it would probably be pretty safe especially if you could set up in a country without extradition laws.

 

What about ATMs They now take cash deposits. Couldn't you also use those to help you move some of your money and get clean cash back in return? Clearly only small chunks of of it once you had established yourself but would that help you? Also you would want to buy in businesses that dealt mostly in cash or make one of your id's a person with a cash based business . A car wash would actually be perfect for that.

I hadn't thought of the ATM but that's definitely a good way to wash your money in small amounts. Every little bit helps keep the feds away from you. I think the main thing is always be on the move and diversify how you launder your cash. If you get too comfortable with one method, that's how they'll get you.

 

Of course, all my schemes rely on the feds even being able to track the serial numbers in a timely fashion. If there's a delay of even a few days, they will probably be unable to catch someone unless they stay still or have a very obvious travel pattern.

[SaraK 1980]

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I'm going to make a grand statement and say that it is very attractive to me that Jason knows this much about Harry Potter. The true ideal amount of HP knowledge.

 

100%. If Paul, Jason, and June give the Harry Potter movies the HDTGM treatment (don't get me wrong, I love all of those films) as a sort of behind-the-paywall bonus, it would finally get me to sign up for Stitcher Premium.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I would like to point out one small, but irritating problem with the reality of this film. Ok, sentient storms? I'm on board. Supercar? sure, whatever. Single central processing center for every trash bill in the country? Fine.

 

What I absolutely refuse to believe is that the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that he has packed in that little console compartment are in any way still resembling a sandwich. Anyone who has every packed a PB & J for a lunch or a picnic knows that you have about 3-4 hrs maximum before that sandwich turns into a sloppy, sticky mess. There was not even a blotch of red on those spotless sandwiches they ate.

 

When the action of the movie began, the tank had been on the road for some time already. Even if he had made them in the morning, they would be piles of mush by the time they got to it (dusk). I also think those sandwiches were made WELL in advance, since every one of them is labeled for a different day of the week. They eat the "MONDAY" and "TUESDAY" sandwiches, but this scenario is presumably playing out just before or on the weekend, since the criminals had been "letting the money pile up all week."That means that worst case scenario, these sandwiches are last week's sandwiches, which he has forgotten about and left in the console, or best case scenario, all this takes place on a Sunday, and he's already eaten today's sandwich, and the Monday and Tuesday are ready to go, but that would mean that he had to make them at LEAST the previous night, which would still leave those sammies a big pile of mess.

 

Furthermore, here's some more questions for the group: Why does he label the sandwiches if they're all peanut butter and jelly? Why is his daily food ration one PB&J sandwich? That can't be enough calories for an adult human. Even if he does label them all, why does he write out the full name of each day? the handwriting looks shaky, like he had trouble doing it, and he seems to have a lot of them on hand, so he struggled through the full name of each day? I don't trust this synoptic meteorologist

All of this. I think I was never more incredulous when watching this movie than when Will opened up that fucking tray of sandwiches he's been storing for days, then offers Maggie Grace a share of his leftovers like he's managed to squirrel away tins of caviar and premium vodka. Hell, this guy makes a living driving around and launching drones into the world's most extreme weather events, shouldn't he have some non-perishable food items in there too? Granola or protein bars, beef jerky, crackers, anything canned. some god damn trail mix?!?! Nothing. Just PB&J on garbage white bread, which by the way, would disintegrate if it gets anything more then a drop of moisture on it. Probably not the best choice of foodstuffs in a FUCKING HURRICANE.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

S/N tracking of bills was put to great effect in "A Simple Plan" too (perhaps my favorite Sam Raimi movie).

[PollyDarton 1807]

Did anyone notice the ridiculous tech garble that the lady hacker used?

The first time she says "Maybe we ran into a frobbotzim" and then a few minutes later she ways "Try a zigamorph."

So I looked it up and frobbotzim and zigamorph do seem to be some kind of super weird tech jargon, but I love that when you look up zigamorph it brings up zygamorph on urban dictionary as "someone who looks up words they find on the internet" which basically means the scriptwriter trolled... me... because I looked up the word.