Episode 197 - Beastly: LIVE!

[Ofcoursemyhorse 1043]

11 hours ago, taylorannephoto said:

I'm gonna have to agree with June that The Beast from 1992 did have more attractive qualities than when he became human. My friend and I make a joke all the time how ugly that cartoon human version is and then once upon a time we found this mini comic on Deviant Art and I have it permanently saved lol.

I think the French 2014 version also suffers from having Beast Cassell looking a bit better than actual Cassell.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

2 hours ago, RyanSz said:

I about lost my mind when the opening song is just the word "vanity" over and over as he works out and then it cuts to building-sized ads featuring statuesque models.

Let's not forget that in the book it's revealed that the housekeeper was actually Kendra in disguise the whole time, basically watching over Kyle to see if he was truly changing his ways. And the only reason that the book takes over two years is because Kendra saw him take a picture with Lindy at the dance and felt that was enough to warrant him getting a bigger chance at redemption. Also was Kendra just wearing wigs everywhere? In one scene she has the big blonde up-do with streaks in it, then it's a short bob that is jet black, and then what is meant to be the very next day she's back to long, blonde, and wavy.

I fully feel that's Mary Kate's normal day to day wigs. The Olsen Twins always look like weird hobos to me and I feel like they have a wig collection.

[Cameron H. 23786]

It's insane to me that Nola and Will's complicity is just given a pass. It's one thing to open up their home as a sanctuary to a person in need, but they know full well that Kyle has ulterior motives. Not only that, they don't even really believe in the whole curse thing in the first place. So, from their perspective, they are just holding this teenage girl against her will at the whim of their spoiled boss' son until she expresses her love for him. That's deranged. Shouldn't there at least be a discussion of, "Yes, she's in danger, but maybe the cops are better equipped to offer her protection?" They don't even have a stake in it! It's not like in the cartoon where they are under the curse too.  Heck, they don't even know that they might get anything out of it. They just know that this troubled girl has been dropped off on their doorstep - who explicitly tells them that she doesn't want to be there - and they are just like, "Yeah, we know you're being held against your will, and you're miserable, but have you checked out Hunter's abs recently?"

 

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

14 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

One of the things that really annoyed me about this movie and is was solidified in the alternate ending played was that Kyle really doesn't ever do anything that isn't for him. The whole point of this curse was to change him into a better person and for him to start thinking of others than just himself. He does this exactly once, when he asks for the Olson twin to cure NPH's sight and get green cards for Zola's kids. Yet when it comes to Lindy everything is about his want for her to fall in love with him. He's already stalking and obsessed with her when he steps in with her father to kidnap her. After he kidnaps her he starts showering her with gifts to make her like him. He builds a greenhouse not because she likes plants but again so she'll like him. It is not "Oh she likes this, I'll do it for her" rather it is "I'll make this so she thinks I'm into that too and she'll like me." Then after the whole letter debacle he stops talking to her flat out without a thought or care about her thoughts, feelings and wants. He unfairly lets her deal with that letter and the baggage that comes with it while dealing with her father dying all alone because "she called me friend and now my curse won't be lifted." If he had really changed he wouldn't have cared about the curse being lifted or not. He should have by that point learnt his lesson. At least in the alternated ending played he sacrifices himself for her, for once putting her ahead of himself and his wants. Yet it the version we get he decides he'll let her go on a trip she's been planning and saving for years for as an act of self sacrifice but only after it was too late to lift the curse anyway. I guarantee within a week of getting his looks back he's back to being a self obsessed asshole.

100% All this guy ever did was for himself and to get his dashing good looks (was he that attractive?) back. None of his gifts or his wooing was about making her happy. Even with all Kyle's stalking he didn't take the time to get to know her and only talked about himself and how ugly he must seem to everyone. Even after she said "I love you" to him, I felt just this creepy sense that he only tricked her into it and I never got the feeling he had any genuine, non-stalkery-y feelings for this girl. She was a conquest, a goal. I did not like the dynamics of the stalking, the kidnapping, the lying, and this is supposed to be romance? Pass. 

[BriObsessedWithTheBest 25]

47 minutes ago, CameronH said:

It's insane to me that Nola and Will's complicity is just given a pass. It's one thing to open up their home as sanctuary to a person in need, but they know full well that Kyle has ulterior motives. Not only that, they don't even really believe in the whole curse thing in the first place. So, from their perspective, they are just holding this teenage girl against her will at the whim of their spoiled boss' son until she expresses her love for him. That's deranged. Shouldn't there at least be a discussion of, "Yes, she's in danger, but maybe the cops are better equipped to offer her protection?" They don't even have a stake in it! It's not like in the cartoon where they are under the curse too.  Heck, they don't even know that they might get anything out of it. They just know that this troubled girl has been dropped off on their doorstep - who explicitly tells them that she doesn't want to be there - and they are just like, "Yeah, we know you're being held against your will, and you're miserable, but have you checked out Hunter's abs recently?"

 

I completely agree with you, and this is another thing that handled better in the novel.

In the book, Kyle caught Lindy’s dad breaking into the mansion and the greenhouse and, like the original versions of the story, makes him pay back him back by giving up his daughter. 

But more importantly, Kyle actually cares about Lindy at this point because he’s been watching her through a magic mirror Kendra gave him. So he has already learned about what she likes and how she spends her time.

(Again we all know kidnapping, stalking, and voyuerism is problematic.)

When it comes to Will and the housekeeper (her name is Magda in the book) they’re okay with it because at this point there’s already been significant change to how he was before. I think Lindy came to stay with him one year into a two year curse, so that’s a whole year he’s had to become a better person. The housekeeper is fine with it because we find out later she’s Kendra in disguise, trying to guide Kyle in the right direction. And Will is aware of the curse, and while he probably doesn’t believe it, he can clearly tell how depressed and hopeless Kyle has gotten and how excited the prospect of Lindy coming has made him.  So really the only adult who would have an issue with it most likely went along with it to help Kyle out, as he was already grown as a person.

And like they would’ve heard Kyle mention Lindy by now. They knew he never had nefarious motvies.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Here’s a bit of an ethical dilemma I would like to throw out to the group.

At the end of the movie it is heavily implied that Kyle’s father is going to be cursed by Kendra as punishment for his own vanity and shallow behavior.

My question is: does Kyle help him through the curse? And, if so, should he? 

Kyle was exiled and abandoned by his father, so it seems a little bit unfair that Kyle’s father might receive the kind of unconditional love and support he himself was denied. Besides, it was at least partly due to the isolation imposed on him that helped him achieve self-actualization. Can Kyle’s father even realize that same level of personal growth and self-reflection if his son is there holding his hand through his own trial? 

That being said, if Kyle ignores the curse placed on his father and leaves him to suffer as he did - even if his father “deserves it” - has he actually learned anything? If the point of the curse is to teach Kyle to be less vain and selfless - and not just score himself a girlfriend - shouldn’t he forgive his father and be there for him?

I don’t know. To me, it seems fucked up that his father might not have to suffer to the same degree as his son when it’s clear that it’s primarily his fault that Kyle was the way he was in the first place.

[Joverholt 2]

Hearing the audio reel of all the insults in beastly made me wonder if they hired Anthony Jeselnik to do insult punch up for The movie

[Cameron H. 23786]

They really make a meal of that poem, huh? I would really love to get my hands on NPH’s syllabus. Apparently his lesson plan was: assign a single poem (of the student’s choosing), provide zero instruction or guided discussion, leave your students to perpetually re-read the same poem over the course of - what appears to be - months so they can make goo-goo eyes at each other.

There will be no other classes.

[RyanSz 3140]

6 hours ago, CameronH said:

Here’s a bit of an ethical dilemma I would like to throw out to the group.

At the end of the movie it is heavily implied that Kyle’s father is going to be cursed by Kendra as punishment for his own vanity and shallow behavior.

My question is: does Kyle help him through the curse? And, if so, should he? 

Kyle was exiled and abandoned by his father, so it seems a little bit unfair that Kyle’s father might receive the kind of unconditional love and support he himself was denied. Besides, it was at least partly due to the isolation imposed on him that helped him achieve self-actualization. Can Kyle’s father even realize that same level of personal growth and self-reflection if his son is there holding his hand through his own trial? 

That being said, if Kyle ignores the curse placed on his father and leaves him to suffer as he did - even if his father “deserves it” - has he actually learned anything? If the point of the curse is to teach Kyle to be less vain and selfless - and not just score himself a girlfriend - shouldn’t he forgive his father and be there for him?

I don’t know. To me, it seems fucked up that his father might not have to suffer to the same degree as his son when it’s clear that it’s primarily his fault that Kyle was the way he was in the first place.

If he truly learned then yes he helps his dad, as it emphasizes the son's growth while also showing the dad what kind of a prick he truly is.  Though I wouldn't be surprised if the first time the dad sees himself in a mirror after being changed, and knowing what his son had to go through, just decides to put a gun in his mouth or jump out a window to save himself the torment he thinks he will suffer.

[DannytheWall 196]

Well, Zouk was really working blue this episode. (or I mean brown?)
Tee hee 

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

9 hours ago, CameronH said:

Here’s a bit of an ethical dilemma I would like to throw out to the group.

At the end of the movie it is heavily implied that Kyle’s father is going to be cursed by Kendra as punishment for his own vanity and shallow behavior.

My question is: does Kyle help him through the curse? And, if so, should he? 

Kyle was exiled and abandoned by his father, so it seems a little bit unfair that Kyle’s father might receive the kind of unconditional love and support he himself was denied. Besides, it was at least partly due to the isolation imposed on him that helped him achieve self-actualization. Can Kyle’s father even realize that same level of personal growth and self-reflection if his son is there holding his hand through his own trial? 

That being said, if Kyle ignores the curse placed on his father and leaves him to suffer as he did - even if his father “deserves it” - has he actually learned anything? If the point of the curse is to teach Kyle to be less vain and selfless - and not just score himself a girlfriend - shouldn’t he forgive his father and be there for him?

I don’t know. To me it seems fucked up that the his father might not have to suffer to the same degree as his son when it’s clear that it’s primarily his fault that Kyle was the way he was in the first place.

I think Kyle doesn't help his father. Not out of spite or revenge, but because, as you said, I think his father is unlikely to come to the same self-realization if he's having his hand held. I think the whole point of the curse is to look within yourself, face your faults, and find your own way to fix them. I suppose he could help set up situations in which self-realization or actualization can occur - the same way Kyle had a couple people who helped him out with the girl (whose name I can never remember, nor care to). I don't think anyone can truly achieve self-actualization or make any real, lasting change while having their hand held or receiving tons of assistance. That defeats the purpose, and is maybe why I never believed Kyle actually changed. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

4 hours ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

I think Kyle doesn't help his father. Not out of spite or revenge, but because, as you said, I think his father is unlikely to come to the same self-realization if he's having his hand held. I think the whole point of the curse is to look within yourself, face your faults, and find your own way to fix them. I suppose he could help set up situations in which self-realization or actualization can occur - the same way Kyle had a couple people who helped him out with the girl (whose name I can never remember, nor care to). I don't think anyone can truly achieve self-actualization or make any real, lasting change while having their hand held or receiving tons of assistance. That defeats the purpose, and is maybe why I never believed Kyle actually changed. 

I would have to agree with you. I don't really think Kyle changed. I think he realized he was an asshole but that was more because he wants to break the curse and get the girl than any real soul searching in my opinion. To be honest I'm not sure such a curse could change someone like Kyle (or his dad ) into better people. Because they would always be partly motivated to break it to get their looks back . I'm not sure how genuine that kind of transformation can be if it's still motivated by vanity. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

At one point, Lindy tells Hunter that one of the things she respected the most about Kyle was: "...he called things like he saw them, even if he did see them wrong." But...that's insane, right? Sure, being forthright is admirable, but it's not like he was this lone, brave voice speaking out against injustice or something. He was using his popularity to publicly bully kids that didn't fit his standard of beauty. That's not admirable, that's fucking deplorable! She might as well be saying: "That person is saying the most vilely racist shit I've ever heard, but hey, you've got to respect them for speaking their truth, right?" That's bonkers!

Is that really the kind honesty that should be respected, Lindy, or is it possible that the writers were so desperate to come up with a reason for your character to be attracted to Kyle (that wasn't based exclusively on his looks) that they made your character say some truly crazy bullshit?     

[Cam Bert 8145]

21 hours ago, CameronH said:

Here’s a bit of an ethical dilemma I would like to throw out to the group.

At the end of the movie it is heavily implied that Kyle’s father is going to be cursed by Kendra as punishment for his own vanity and shallow behavior.

My question is: does Kyle help him through the curse? And, if so, should he? 

Kyle was exiled and abandoned by his father, so it seems a little bit unfair that Kyle’s father might receive the kind of unconditional love and support he himself was denied. Besides, it was at least partly due to the isolation imposed on him that helped him achieve self-actualization. Can Kyle’s father even realize that same level of personal growth and self-reflection if his son is there holding his hand through his own trial? 

That being said, if Kyle ignores the curse placed on his father and leaves him to suffer as he did - even if his father “deserves it” - has he actually learned anything? If the point of the curse is to teach Kyle to be less vain and selfless - and not just score himself a girlfriend - shouldn’t he forgive his father and be there for him?

I don’t know. To me, it seems fucked up that his father might not have to suffer to the same degree as his son when it’s clear that it’s primarily his fault that Kyle was the way he was in the first place.

Well the catch is if his father is cursed then he'd lose his job. They would never have somebody in his condition anchor the news. Out of job means no more income and the fact that he has three houses, a live in maid, a live in tutor, and who knows how many other expenses this would all come to an end. Kyle being the shallow and selfish prick he is, face it he didn't learn any lesson that won't be forgotten in a week, would only think about his well being and straight up help his dad for no other reason that he wants access to that cash and what it offers.

[Cameron H. 23786]

11 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Well the catch is if his father is cursed then he'd lose his job. They would never have somebody in his condition anchor the news. Out of job means no more income and the fact that he has three houses, a live in maid, a live in tutor, and who knows how many other expenses this would all come to an end. Kyle being the shallow and selfish prick he is, face it he didn't learn any lesson that won't be forgotten in a week, would only think about his well being and straight up help his dad for no other reason that he wants access to that cash and what it offers.

He would lose his job, but I have to assume he’s has a strong investment portfolio. He could also sell his place in the city to get by for a little bit. Plus, Will might have his sight back, but he’s definitely out of his cushy job.  It’s not like they need a tutor once Kyle is handsome enough to go back to school. 

So, as much as I agree that Kyle didn’t learn a goddamn thing, I don’t think money would be that much of a motivator in helping his father.

[Cam Bert 8145]

According to some small research the annual income for a news anchor in New York can range anyway from $49, 665 a year to $352,347 with an average salary of $107,00 annually. The average annual income for a live in housekeeper is $35-60,000 and a live in tutor would cost run anywhere from $18-53,000 a year. Peter Krause wants to keep his sons condition a secret so he's either paying them on the high end or granting large bonuses. The school Kyle goes to is an elite private school in New York so add in another $25 for tuition. In addition to those costs we know he had the apartment in the city, the brownstone, and the lake house. While we don't know if he's paying monthly mortgages on all three each is worth a few million each. He would have also hired another maid for the apartment now that Zola is with Kyle. In conclusion if Peter Krause has to have some good real estate deals and be in the top 10% of news anchors to afford all of this.

[Cam Bert 8145]

4 minutes ago, CameronH said:

He would lose his job, but I have to assume he’s has a strong investment portfolio. He could also sell his place in the city to get by for a little bit. Plus, Will might have his sight back, but he’s definitely out of his cushy job.  It’s not like they need a tutor once Kyle is handsome enough to go back to school. 

So, as much as I agree that Kyle didn’t learn a goddamn thing, I don’t think money would be that much of a motivator in helping his father.

Fair enough. If money wasn't a factor I would say he'd pridefully not help him at the start because he "deserves it" and "has to learn." Kyle should be helping though which does kind of defeat the purpose. Now should he help him? Like you said he should have learned to be the bigger person and think of other and help.

However, maybe the curse put on the father has a different out condition. Maybe his isn't as simple as having someone love you. Maybe he has to learn something slightly different.

[Cameron H. 23786]

They fact that Kyle’s mother abandoned him is painted as this tragic event in his life, but has anyone considered that maybe she had to just get herself out of what was most likely a living nightmare? Maybe she just couldn’t take the lack of attention and Kyle’s father’s unrealistic demands anymore. There’s nothing in the movie to suggest that Kyle’s father became the douche he is now because she left.  Maybe she saw what a terrible person he was, and saw that her son was falling in lock-step behind him, and was like, “Nope. I’m out.”

Also, minor quibble, but the gang suggested that Zola was at least partially to blame for how Kyle turned out because she helped raise him, but she says in the movie that she hasn’t seen her 6-year-old child for “half his life.” That means, at most, she’s only been with Kyle and his father for three years - not since childhood. She probably didn’t even meet him until he was 13 or 14. That’s plenty of time for a spoiled little monster to get set in his ways. I’m not really sure how much influence she’s expected to have at that point - positive or otherwise.  (Also, I got the vibe she was more of a housekeeper than an au pair, but I could be wrong about that.)

[Cameron H. 23786]

11 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Fair enough. If money wasn't a factor I would say he'd pridefully not help him at the start because he "deserves it" and "has to learn." Kyle should be helping though which does kind of defeat the purpose. Now should he help him? Like you said he should have learned to be the bigger person and think of other and help.

However, maybe the curse put on the father has a different out condition. Maybe his isn't as simple as having someone love you. Maybe he has to learn something slightly different.

But I think it has to be the same thing because it’s clear that Kyle is the way that he is because of his father. His last line in the movie is requesting that his new intern isn’t a  “dogface” or “dumpy frump.” 

[Cam Bert 8145]

13 minutes ago, CameronH said:

But I think it has to be the same thing because it’s clear that Kyle is the way that he is because of his father. His last line in the movie is requesting that his new intern isn’t a  “dogface” or “dumpy frump.” 

Again this is where I get confused about things that happened in the movie. Was Kendra there to put a curse on him, or would that just naturally happen because of the way he is? Kyle never told Kendra about his father, so why is she going after him? Kyle bullied her for most likely a long time in school before she cursed him. So after a year and after he learns his lesson she's going after the father because she realized that's where he got it from? Yet the curse on Kyle seemingly stemmed from their antagonizing relationship. It just seems like an odd jump. Or is it merely a coincidence that she's going to intern at the station and happens to work for Kyle's father who is just as shallow and vain? I'm only curious because if she knows it is Kyle's dad and gives him the same curse, with Kyle in his new state wouldn't forgiveness, understanding and helpfulness towards his father be expected and thus the curse lifted quickly?

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 minute ago, Cam Bert said:

 I'm only curious because if she knows it is Kyle's dad and gives him the same curse, with Kyle in his new state wouldn't forgiveness, understanding and helpfulness towards his father be expected and thus the curse lifted quickly?

That's what I'm saying! It's horse shit!

[Cam Bert 8145]

When Kyle is in his "beastly" state he has all these open wounds. If you look at them, gross I know but just look quickly, there are metal bits in the wounds. At first I thought these were medical staples keeping the wound together but all of them are in the wound. A medical staple would be on either side and closing the wound but these are inside. What are they and why are they there? I found them horribly distracting.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, Cam Bert said:

When Kyle is in his "beastly" state he has all these open wounds. If you look at them, gross I know but just look quickly, there are metal bits in the wounds. At first I thought these were medical staples keeping the wound together but all of them are in the wound. A medical staple would be on either side and closing the wound but these are inside. What are they and why are they there? I found them horribly distracting.

It was like he was being sutured together with silver caulk.

[tomspanks 9039]

3 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

When Kyle is in his "beastly" state he has all these open wounds. If you look at them, gross I know but just look quickly, there are metal bits in the wounds. At first I thought these were medical staples keeping the wound together but all of them are in the wound. A medical staple would be on either side and closing the wound but these are inside. What are they and why are they there? I found them horribly distracting.

You know what I found distracting? The way the prosthetic didn’t quite get attached to his face in the corner of his right eye. Sometimes due to the lighting you could see a big gap there. Should’ve filled the space with more silver caulk. 

[BriObsessedWithTheBest 25]

3 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

When Kyle is in his "beastly" state he has all these open wounds. If you look at them, gross I know but just look quickly, there are metal bits in the wounds. At first I thought these were medical staples keeping the wound together but all of them are in the wound. A medical staple would be on either side and closing the wound but these are inside. What are they and why are they there? I found them horribly distracting.

It’s because he’s supposed to look grotesque while also being hot! I feel like the producers and creative team were like “oh we can’t make him a furry beast. Alex Pettyfer’s too beautiful to cover up; he has to stay attractive. What’s hot but also disturbing? I know: tattoos! Tattoos are cool! Also barbed wire! But maybe he should also look deformed. So let’s add gaping wounds and scars, that makes him look tragic. But then let’s put the barbed wire in the wounds so it doesn’t seem as gross! Because we need girls to think he’s hot!”