Musical Mondays Week 49 Meet Me in St. Louis

[Cam Bert 8145]

2 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Yea I pretty much felt the same.  It was enjoyable enough, but I was not into it.  I thought Judy Garland was kind of amazing though.  

Also, you guys looked up Halloween.  Well, I looked up basketball -- Judy Garland's beau kept saying he was playing basketball.  I was like, was it even invented in 1903?

Turns out, it was invented in like 1891 or so.  It was famously played in peach baskets, without a hole in the bottom, until around 1898.  So I guess him playing basketball was pretty legit, but this dude was sort of on the cutting edge of the sport.

I'd feel like a bad Canadian if I didn't post this. This is what was shown to us in Canada growing up during cartoon commercial breaks.

 

[grudlian. 4725]

1 minute ago, Cam Bert said:

I'm wondering if I missed the part that explained why Tootie was so obsessed with death and dying? It was explained her brother taught her the songs, but that doesn't explain why for fun she buried her dolls and things like that. My theory was that their grandmother must have recently passed and that's why grandfather is alone and why Tootie, being so young, is obsessed with death. It is how she is dealing and cooping with it. 

She's just a sociopath.

Yeah. I was trying to figure that out. She seemed to be demure about singing a song about drinking. She called it "I was mmmmmm last night" as if they very idea was too naughty to discuss. But the rest of the movie is "I'LL STAB YOU TO DEATH!" Your explanation definitely makes sense. 

[grudlian. 4725]

12 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I also thought it weird that they were like, “We’re going to have to live in tenements because we’re so poor.” 

Um...I think you folks are doing alright for yourselves.

Yeah. I thought it was a vague comment on how expensive New York is. I would practically be homeless in NYC with my current salary but he's presumably going for a promotion since he's sticking with the same company. You can expect some lifestyle changes but a practical mansion to tenement house seems weird. Why take this job at all?

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 minute ago, grudlian. said:

Yeah. I thought it was a vague comment on how expensive New York is. I would practically be homeless in NYC with my current salary but he's presumably going for a promotion since he's sticking with the same company. You can expect some lifestyle changes but a practical mansion to tenement house seems weird. Why take this job at all?

Yeah, I think he said he was basically going to be made partner or something. And his argument is he wants to make enough money to support everyone so you have to imagine it's a pretty significant pay bump. I mean, they could just be acting dramatic, but I think his wife says it too, so I don't know...

[Cameron H. 23786]

18 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Yea I pretty much felt the same.  It was enjoyable enough, but I was not into it.  I thought Judy Garland was kind of amazing though.  

Also, there were cool use of lights and fire throughout

And weird dark jokes

You guys looked up Halloween.  Well, I looked up basketball -- Judy Garland's beau kept saying he was playing basketball.  I was like, was it even invented in 1903?

Turns out, it was invented in like 1891 or so.  It was famously played in peach baskets, without a hole in the bottom, until around 1898.  So I guess him playing basketball was pretty legit, but this dude was sort of on the cutting edge of the sport.

I love how he forget to pick up his tuxedo because he was basketballing so hard. No, no - it's fine. It's only Christmas and a very important event seeing as Esther is moving away forever. Did you get that Triple-double, though?

[Cameron H. 23786]

22 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I'm wondering if I missed the part that explained why Tootie was so obsessed with death and dying? It was explained her brother taught her the songs, but that doesn't explain why for fun she buried her dolls and things like that. My theory was that their grandmother must have recently passed and that's why grandfather is alone and why Tootie, being so young, is obsessed with death. It is how she is dealing and cooping with it. 

I kind of day her as an Anne of Green Gables type. She has a highly evolved Imagination and death is kind of "romantic."

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

2 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I love how he forget to pick up his tuxedo because he was basketballing so hard. No, no - it's fine. It's only Christmas and a very important event seeing as Esther is moving away forever. Did you get that Triple-double, though?

Ball don't lie

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

also i'm gonna lowkey add this to my list of basketball movies on Letterboxd

[grudlian. 4725]

5 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I love how he forget to pick up his tuxedo because he was basketballing so hard. No, no - it's fine. It's only Christmas and a very important event seeing as Esther is moving away forever. Did you get that Triple-double, though?

Also, there's that whole thing where you think grandpa is going to loan his tux to him and I was ready to say the tux wouldn't fit an athletic high school baller if it's made for an old man... but grandpa is now her date? That's way more embarrassing than bringing her brother which was the original plan.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

6 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

Also, there's that whole thing where you think grandpa is going to loan his tux to him and I was ready to say the tux wouldn't fit an athletic high school baller if it's made for an old man... but grandpa is now her date? That's way more embarrassing than bringing her brother which was the original plan.

I also thought grandpa was going to loan the tux.  I loved how Esther demurred going because she didn't want to go with her brother.  Rose's line "If he's good enough for me then he's good enough for you!" had me laughing.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

38 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

She's just a sociopath.

Yeah. I was trying to figure that out. She seemed to be demure about singing a song about drinking. She called it "I was mmmmmm last night" as if they very idea was too naughty to discuss. But the rest of the movie is "I'LL STAB YOU TO DEATH!" Your explanation definitely makes sense. 

I thought the "mmmmmm" meant there would be multiple verses with a different thing each time.  Nope, just drunk.

[Cam Bert 8145]

8 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

Also, there's that whole thing where you think grandpa is going to loan his tux to him and I was ready to say the tux wouldn't fit an athletic high school baller if it's made for an old man... but grandpa is now her date? That's way more embarrassing than bringing her brother which was the original plan.

What got me thinking after the fact was to attend the dance you had to come with somebody. So who did all the nerds that were on her dance card come with? Is there just a whole group of relatives hat were brought along as dates at this dance?

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

The whole "proposing over the phone" thing was a little weird.  In Oklahoma Ado Annie said something like the peddler taking her over the county line or staying the night with her (I don't remember what and Google is failing me) meant a proposal.  Here they have to wait six months?

ETA: Found it.

Quote

Laurey: Since when did you take up with that peddler man?

Ado Annie: Since he told me he wanted to ride with me to the end of the world.  My pa told me that was a proposal of marriage!

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Cinco DeNio

[grudlian. 4725]

18 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

What got me thinking after the fact was to attend the dance you had to come with somebody. So who did all the nerds that were on her dance card come with? Is there just a whole group of relatives hat were brought along as dates at this dance?

I assumed they were the wealthy but ugly nerd stereotype who got dates despite their appearance. 

[SaraK 1980]

While I enjoyed this movie, I was mostly confused by everything that was happening in it. I'm not sure what the actual plot of the movie was other that 'This is how the family deals with different seasons'. I think Esther ended up engaged? But I don't know, she basically told him no she wanted to leave with her family and then didn't leave town. 

I will say that her sister's engagement was the funniest proclamation of love in recent memory. 

 

22 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

I also thought grandpa was going to loan the tux.  I loved how Esther demurred going because she didn't want to go with her brother.  Rose's line "If he's good enough for me then he's good enough for you!" had me laughing.

I was so confused as to why Grandpa of all people was going to this dance, and everyone was just cool with it. Can you imagine being at that dance as a teen/young adult/whatever their ages were and having this 70 year old man there as well?

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

1 minute ago, SaraK said:

I was so confused as to why Grandpa of all people was going to this dance, and everyone was just cool with it. Can you imagine being at that dance as a teen/young adult/whatever their ages were and having this 70 year old man there as well?

Funny how we had similar confusion over that girl in Sleepaway Camp who asked the owner for a hot date, and one movie is respected and the other is a joke

[PollyDarton 1807]

22 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

What got me thinking after the fact was to attend the dance you had to come with somebody. So who did all the nerds that were on her dance card come with? Is there just a whole group of relatives hat were brought along as dates at this dance?

Sadly I think it is strip club rules. Men can come to the dance as a bachelor, but women dare not show up without a date or it wouldn't be proper.

[Cameron H. 23786]

At the end of the movie, Tootie asks if it will ever be torn down and Daddy Pricklepants says, "They better not." But according to Dr. internet, most of the fair was built with plaster of Paris and was never meant to be permanent. The fair itself ended in 1905 and only a few buildings remained. This would have been pretty well-known on 1944. Is the movie making a statement about the transitory nature of joy?

Also, I found this interesting:

Introduction of new foods

A number of foods are claimed to have been invented at the fair. The most popular claim is that the waffle-style ice cream cone was invented and first sold during the fair. However, it is widely believed that it was not invented at the Fair, but instead, it was popularized at the Fair.[39][40] Other claims are more dubious, including the hamburger and hot dog (both traditional American foods), peanut butter, iced tea,[41] and cotton candy. It is more likely, however, that these food items were first introduced to mass audiences and popularized by the fair. Dr Pepper and Puffed Wheat cereal were first introduced to a national audience at the fair. Daughter of slaves, Annie Fisher, brought her beaten biscuits, which were already famous in her hometown of Columbia, Missouri. The exposition awarded Fisher's biscuits a gold medal.[42]They would later be enjoyed by President William Howard Taft on his 1911 visit to Missouri.

Also, the X-Ray, fax machine, and baby incubator debuted there.

[grudlian. 4725]

2 minutes ago, PollyDarton said:

Sadly I think it is strip club rules. Men can come to the dance as a bachelor, but women dare not show up without a date or it wouldn't be proper.

Are women bringing dates to strip clubs?

[PollyDarton 1807]

47 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Yeah, I think he said he was basically going to be made partner or something. And his argument is he wants to make enough money to support everyone so you have to imagine it's a pretty significant pay bump. I mean, they could just be acting dramatic, but I think his wife says it too, so I don't know...

Yes, I always figured they were being dramatic by using the word "tenement" when in reality they would live fairly comfortably in NYC - not like how they live in their GIANT Victorian mansion in St. Louis, but they would do fine none-the-less. As sad as this may be, I think this is supposed to represent the middle class of 1903... seeing how Alonzo is an attorney which means he is a professional... not a wealthy man because he works for his money... know what I mean?

Upper middle class without a doubt.

[PollyDarton 1807]

1 minute ago, grudlian. said:

Are women bringing dates to strip clubs?

Hahaha... Women in a lot of places are not allowed to go to stripclubs unless they are accompanied by a man.

[PollyDarton 1807]

6 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

At the end of the movie, Tootie asks if it will ever be torn down and Daddy Pricklepants says, "They better not." But according to Dr. internet, most of the fair was built with plaster of Paris and was never meant to be permanent. The fair itself ended in 1905 and only a few buildings remained. This would have been pretty well-known on 1944. Is the movie making a statement about the transitory nature of joy?

Also, I found this interesting:

Introduction of new foods

A number of foods are claimed to have been invented at the fair. The most popular claim is that the waffle-style ice cream cone was invented and first sold during the fair. However, it is widely believed that it was not invented at the Fair, but instead, it was popularized at the Fair.[39][40] Other claims are more dubious, including the hamburger and hot dog (both traditional American foods), peanut butter, iced tea,[41] and cotton candy. It is more likely, however, that these food items were first introduced to mass audiences and popularized by the fair. Dr Pepper and Puffed Wheat cereal were first introduced to a national audience at the fair. Daughter of slaves, Annie Fisher, brought her beaten biscuits, which were already famous in her hometown of Columbia, Missouri. The exposition awarded Fisher's biscuits a gold medal.[42]They would later be enjoyed by President William Howard Taft on his 1911 visit to Missouri.

Also, the X-Ray, fax machine, and baby incubator debuted there.

It might also be worth pointing out that the St. Louis world's fair is the back drop to Devil in the White City - about a serial killer killing people at this time in St. Louis.

I wonder why they didn't mention this in this film?

EDIT: Nope - wrong - not about St. Louis... sorry.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

7 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Is the movie making a statement about the transitory nature of joy?

In this 50-page essay I will discuss the fatalistic and nihilistic views of Meet Me In St. Louis. Starting with a joke about kicking a cat down the stairs, and a little girl's sociopathic focus on death, the movie gets more and more macabre, despite the light frivolity of the songs.  Next, I will 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

13 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

At the end of the movie, Tootie asks if it will ever be torn down and Daddy Pricklepants says, "They better not." But according to Dr. internet, most of the fair was built with plaster of Paris and was never meant to be permanent. The fair itself ended in 1905 and only a few buildings remained. This would have been pretty well-known on 1944. Is the movie making a statement about the transitory nature of joy?

Also, I found this interesting:

Introduction of new foods

A number of foods are claimed to have been invented at the fair. The most popular claim is that the waffle-style ice cream cone was invented and first sold during the fair. However, it is widely believed that it was not invented at the Fair, but instead, it was popularized at the Fair.[39][40] Other claims are more dubious, including the hamburger and hot dog (both traditional American foods), peanut butter, iced tea,[41] and cotton candy. It is more likely, however, that these food items were first introduced to mass audiences and popularized by the fair. Dr Pepper and Puffed Wheat cereal were first introduced to a national audience at the fair. Daughter of slaves, Annie Fisher, brought her beaten biscuits, which were already famous in her hometown of Columbia, Missouri. The exposition awarded Fisher's biscuits a gold medal.[42]They would later be enjoyed by President William Howard Taft on his 1911 visit to Missouri.

Also, the X-Ray, fax machine, and baby incubator debuted there.

I like how they used the term "spun sugar" for cotton candy.  It was originally marketed as "faerie floss".  Maybe using the generic term allowed them to avoid paying royalties.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

4 minutes ago, PollyDarton said:

It might also be worth pointing out that the St. Louis world's fair is the back drop to Devil in the White City - about a serial killer killing people at this time in St. Louis.

I wonder why they didn't mention this in this film?

Maybe Tootie was the murderer?  She WAS "the most horrible of them all".