Listener Questions Special

[Cam Bert 8145]

2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

 

I wasn't thinking of A Clockwork Orange, no. I think it's going to be pretty low on the list, but it's been a really long time since I've seen it so I couldn't honestly tell you if it's going to go above or below Titanic.

I can tell you the movies I'm thinking about if you want or i can keep it a surprise.

I will say, Intolerance was the one you got right. I prefer Stagecoach to The Searchers, but I like The Searchers more than Titanic. Like Amy, Martin Scorcese isn't really my favorite. I would be fine with just Taxi Driver on the list and nothing else. That being said, since it *is* on the list, it's probably going to be pretty low on my list, but I would have to watch it again to say whether I'd put it above or below Titanic. It really could go either way. 

I don't want to know. I like the surprise. 

There are a lot of directors I love (Scorcese I like but not love) but I kinda like the idea of a director only being allowed one film on the list.  At first I thought this was a bad idea because you have directors like Kubrick who change genres with each film. Then the more I thought on it even though there is a change in genre the style and their voice comes through. The Coen Brothers are other directors that go through different genres but their voice carries through. By limiting it to one film per director you are forcing them to think of a hundred different voices which would give rise to more varieties of genre and style of film. It would also force people to think about which films they are choosing too rather than falling back on a given "the one" like Swing Time. I mean the list might not be "the hundred greatest American movies" but there are those that will argue that regardless what movies make the list. So why not try to represent as many voices, views, styles, and genres as possible?

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 hour ago, Cameron H. said:

Me and Cam Bert

Was there any doubt! 

[Cameron H. 23786]

25 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I don't want to know. I like the surprise. 

There are a lot of directors I love (Scorcese I like but not love) but I kinda like the idea of a director only being allowed one film on the list.  At first I thought this was a bad idea because you have directors like Kubrick who change genres with each film. Then the more I thought on it even though there is a change in genre the style and their voice comes through. The Coen Brothers are other directors that go through different genres but their voice carries through. By limiting it to one film per director you are forcing them to think of a hundred different voices which would give rise to more varieties of genre and style of film. It would also force people to think about which films they are choosing too rather than falling back on a given "the one" like Swing Time. I mean the list might not be "the hundred greatest American movies" but there are those that will argue that regardless what movies make the list. So why not try to represent as many voices, views, styles, and genres as possible?

That’s cool. I didn’t really want to pollute our hive mind  

I agree. I was a bit resistant to the idea at first, but when Paul brought up E.T. as being quintessential Spielberg, it turned me around. It might not be the “best” Spielberg movie ever, but it is the best in terms of getting across his reoccurring themes. And I feel like most artists, even when working across genres, have certain themes that appeal to them, so maybe we should just present one movie as the Platonic Ideal of what the director has to offer. (i.e. “We know Spielberg is a great director with many great films, but when we think of Spielberg, what movie best sums him up?”)

I mean, I am kind of annoyed that Godfather 1 and 2 are both on the list. I love both of them, but it’s like, “Yeah, we get it...”

[Cameron H. 23786]

3 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Was there any doubt! 

You truly are the Xamot to my Tomax...

First the AFI list, then - The World! COBRA!!!!

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

2 hours ago, bleary said:

Okay, because I'm a math nerd, I rigged up some similarity scores between the full lists posted in this thread, as well as Paul's and Amy's.  The score is equal to the sum of the squares of the differences in rankings, so the lower the number, the more similar the list.  (This is a somewhat arbitrary metric that punishes huge differences more than a simple sum of absolute value of differences would, but Google Docs' spreadsheet had this function built in, so I just used it.)

From most similar to least similar:

• Cam Bert and Cameron H: 412
• Cam Bert and sycasey: 530
• sycasey and Paul: 532
• Paul and Amy: 650
• sycasey and Cameron H: 882
• Cam Bert and Paul: 974
• sycasey and Amy: 1150
• me and Paul: 1170
• Cam Bert and Amy: 1274
• Cameron H and Paul: 1312
• sycasey and me: 1342
• me and Amy: 1402
• Cam Bert and AlmostAGhost: 1452
• sycasey and AlmostAGhost: 1588
• AlmostAGhost and Paul: 1600
• Cameron H and Amy: 1612
• Cameron H and AlmostAGhost: 1646
• Cam Bert and me: 1812
• AlmostAGhost and Amy: 1928
• AlmostAGhost and me: 2370
• Cameron H and me: 2438 

 

I think I just mathematically proved that my opinion is wrong. 

While it probably wouldn't be mobile friendly, posts like this make me think every now and then, being able to put a table in your posts would be useful.

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

One thing Paul said during the episode, (something along the lines of) "ranking these movies makes me feel like/appreciate the AFI doing this more."

Which is kind of funny, because that's one thing the members of the AFI didn't technically sit down and think about (outside of their top 5 tie breakers).  Because members just submitted a ballot of  their top 100 movies, unweighted (outside of their top 5, which were also unweighted within).

/broken record

Though, trying to do a top 25 list like that with two hosts would be quite non-sensical

Though since everyone else is doing it though.

(I rarely do star ratings because I discovered in the early Netflix years that my ratings have a margin of error of +/-1 on a 4-5 point scale.  So a "2" start movie might be rated a "3" and a "4" star movie on a given day might be rated a "3", and that happened enough, I just kind of stopped except for movies I really, really liked.

So, instead, breaking them out into tiers

All time favorites
1. 2001
2. Citizen Kane
3. Apocalypse Now
--------------------
Really, Really Enjoyed to Loved, depending on my mood

4. Taxi Driver
5. All About Eve
--------------------
Really enjoyed, good movies, but don't come to mind as "all time greats"

6. Psycho
7. Double Indemnity
--------------------
I'd watch again/enjoyed

8. Bonnie & Clyde (really need to rewatch/haven't seen in forever, but looking at everything else, it would probably end up around here)
9. Duck Soup
10. Singin' in the Rain
11. High Noon (probably here more from having seen it only once)
12. The General
--------------------
Wouldn't seek them out, but could rewatch them if needed to, for, say a podcast and its discussion (or if, stuck with family and they really wanted to watch them).

13. Shawshank Redemption
14. King Kong
15. Lord of the Rings
-------------------
Eh, I'd be fine if I never saw any of these movies again.

16. Platoon
17. African Queen
18. The Sixth Sense
19. Raiders of the Lost Ark
20. ET
------------------

Haven't seen
:: Want to see
The French Connection
Wizard of Oz

:: Might watch just for general film history knowledge
Swing Time

:: Might watch just for general film history knowledge, but probably not
Ben-Hur

:: Don't think I'll be watching
Titanic

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

1 hour ago, Cam Bert said:

I don't want to know. I like the surprise. 

There are a lot of directors I love (Scorcese I like but not love) but I kinda like the idea of a director only being allowed one film on the list.  At first I thought this was a bad idea because you have directors like Kubrick who change genres with each film. Then the more I thought on it even though there is a change in genre the style and their voice comes through. The Coen Brothers are other directors that go through different genres but their voice carries through. By limiting it to one film per director you are forcing them to think of a hundred different voices which would give rise to more varieties of genre and style of film. It would also force people to think about which films they are choosing too rather than falling back on a given "the one" like Swing Time. I mean the list might not be "the hundred greatest American movies" but there are those that will argue that regardless what movies make the list. So why not try to represent as many voices, views, styles, and genres as possible?

So, just in terms of implementation, would you say the AFI should take the movie that gets the most votes from a director and then just bump off any other movies from the list from that director? Are voters only allowed to vote for one movie per director?  In which case that doesn't prevent a director from having multiple movies on the final list (though, it would probably prevent them from having four or more). I will say, I think they'd need to expand their base list of movies to vote for to beyond just 400 then - I'm not saying this would be wrong, it's just trying to think through.

Another solution could be to reduce the number of movies a single voter submits.  I imagine below a certain number entries, people aren't going to spend slots being redundant as much (though, that's probably similar to the, each ballot can only have one movie per director).  I think my suggestion of that is still just my disbelief this list is counting ballots of top 100 movies, unweighted.  I'm going to just continue to be exasperated by that through the end of this podcast.

 

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

For people who are buying these movies on iTunes (like me), Bridge on the River Kwai is currently on sale for 4.99. Its regular price is 17.99. So, if you’re interested, I’d jump on that now  

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

21 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

I think my tastes have changed...

My son loves the New Ghostbusters - a lot. He is 6 (oddly enough), and like you, he will watch it, and then put it on again immediately. So this Halloween, I thought I’d show him the original movie and he didn’t like it. He asked that we put on *the real* Ghostbusters.

Anyway, maybe it’s because I’ve seen it too much, but the original wasn’t doing anything for me. It was kind of boring and Bill Murray just came off like a smarmy asshole. 

I just saw the new Ghostbusters this weekend... twice - the extended cut, and the theatrical release. It was sooooooo good! I'm entirely in love with Holtzmann. She was unbelievably charming. 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

20 hours ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

I really agreed with Amy's suggestion of 1999 as the best film year. That was the one that probably made me a real "movie buff." I was in college and so many interesting movies were coming out all at once, it was incredible. She didn't even mention Eyes Wide Shut!

I wonder if Amy feels the same way about Eyes Wide Shut that I do which is like.... not great....

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I'll admit that real life shit kicked me in the butt and totally pushed back a lot of movie viewings I've been meaning to do. Also, I'm still obsessed with Haunting of Hill House so if I ever get a chance to sit and watch something I take the opportunity to rewatch that. But with all that said here's my very small list.

1. All About Eve ★★★★★
2. Singin In The Rain ★★★★★
3. Titanic ★★★★½
4. Psycho ★★★★½
5. The Sixth Sense ★★★★½
6. Wizard of Oz ★★★★½
7. Raiders of the Lost Ark ★★★★½
8. 2001: A Space Odyssey ★★★★
9. Taxi Driver ★★★★
10. Bonnie & Clyde ★★★★
11. LotR: TFotR ★★★½
12. E.T. ★★★½
13. The Shawshank Redemption ★★★½
14. The General ★★★½
15. The French Connection ★★★

 

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

1 hour ago, taylorannephoto said:

I wonder if Amy feels the same way about Eyes Wide Shut that I do which is like.... not great....

 

Speaking as someone who does like it.

It seems like a movie she probably wouldn't like (based on her opinions so far in the podcast). Though she really likes Tom Cruise as an actor, so it got me wondering.

Googling and skimming (from an exerpt on EWS from her book on Cruise)

It sounds like she does not care for it (unless her opinion has changed dramatically from 2014). Or at the very least how Cruise was utilized in it.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/07/eyes-wide-shut-tom-cruise-nicole-kidman

ETA: though, IIRC I think she also listed Fight Club, which is also a movie I'd guess she might not be the biggest fan of either.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

20 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

 

Speaking as someone who does like it.

It seems like a movie she probably wouldn't like (based on her opinions so far in the podcast). Though she really likes Tom Cruise as an actor, so it got me wondering.

Googling and skimming (from an exerpt on EWS from her book on Cruise)

It sounds like she does not care for it (unless her opinion has changed dramatically from 2014). Or at the very least how Cruise was utilized in it.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/07/eyes-wide-shut-tom-cruise-nicole-kidman

ETA: though, IIRC I think she also listed Fight Club, which is also a movie I'd guess she might not be the biggest fan of either.

For me personally, I liked aspects of it but there was a lot that just felt unnecessary. Like the actual parts of Tom finding this sex club and infiltrating it and then being followed and this movie turning into this great thriller was really amazing to watch. The whole thing with him and Nicole and their fuckin weird ass marriage though? Nah didn't like that at all. Didn't like how Nicole just wanted to rub in his face that she was desired by other men and wanted to fuck around on her husband. Does that make his motivation for finding this secret club more apparent? Yeah sure, but the amount of time they spent on it and the way I felt like it rather demonized Nicole's character really put me off.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

3 hours ago, taylorannephoto said:

I wonder if Amy feels the same way about Eyes Wide Shut that I do which is like.... not great....

Regardless, it's a memorable film from that year.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

9 minutes ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

Regardless, it's a memorable film from that year.

The point is maybe not for everyone lol

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

Here's my updated list, though some of it is pure enjoyment over spectacle and technical achievement. I'd still move things around based on my mood. 

1. Citizen Kane
2. Wizard of Oz
3. All About Eve
4. Singin' in the Rain
5. Double Indemnity
6. Psycho
7. 2001: A Space Odyssey
8. Bonnie and Clyde
9. The French Connection
10. Taxi Driver
11. E. T.
12. The General
13. Raiders of the Lost Ark
14. High Noon
15. The African Queen
16. King Kong
17. Titanic
18. Apocalypse Now
19. Lord of the Rings
20. Shawshank Redemption
21. Platoon
22. Swing Time
23. Duck Soup
24. Ben-Hur
25. Sixth Sense

[bleary 333]

2 hours ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

Here's my updated list, though some of it is pure enjoyment over spectacle and technical achievement. I'd still move things around based on my mood. 

1. Citizen Kane
2. Wizard of Oz
3. All About Eve
4. Singin' in the Rain
5. Double Indemnity
6. Psycho
7. 2001: A Space Odyssey
8. Bonnie and Clyde
9. The French Connection
10. Taxi Driver
11. E. T.
12. The General
13. Raiders of the Lost Ark
14. High Noon
15. The African Queen
16. King Kong
17. Titanic
18. Apocalypse Now
19. Lord of the Rings
20. Shawshank Redemption
21. Platoon
22. Swing Time
23. Duck Soup
24. Ben-Hur
25. Sixth Sense

A full list means I can compute more similarity scores!

Your list's similarity to, from more similar to least similar:

• Cam Bert - 836
• Amy - 870
• sycasey - 958
• Paul - 990
• Cameron H. - 1300
• me - 1672
• AlmostAGhost - 1964

I think you're the first list I've seen that's closer to Amy's than to Paul's!

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

3 hours ago, taylorannephoto said:

The point is maybe not for everyone lol

I am aware. I remember the heated online debates about it at the time, though I feel like sentiment has moved in its favor over the years.

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

1 hour ago, bleary said:

A full list means I can compute more similarity scores!

Your list's similarity to, from more similar to least similar:

• Cam Bert - 836
• Amy - 870
• sycasey - 958
• Paul - 990
• Cameron H. - 1300
• me - 1672
• AlmostAGhost - 1964

I think you're the first list I've seen that's closer to Amy's than to Paul's!

Interesting!  I would definitely say that I think I line up with Amy more than Paul, but I often find that my tastes differ quite a bit from both of them. 

[tomspanks 9039]

2 hours ago, bleary said:

A full list means I can compute more similarity scores!

Your list's similarity to, from more similar to least similar:

• Cam Bert - 836
• Amy - 870
• sycasey - 958
• Paul - 990
• Cameron H. - 1300
• me - 1672
• AlmostAGhost - 1964

I think you're the first list I've seen that's closer to Amy's than to Paul's!

Aw, I wanna play too

[bleary 333]

25 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

Aw, I wanna play too

You've got 7 more films to rank!  The method I used requires a value for each of the 25 films (since it's essentially just computing the Euclidean distance in a 25-dimensional vector space), but I could get numbers by plugging in 19 for each of the missing films.  But that wouldn't be very consistent with the rest of the scores.

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

Apologies for any errors on the paraphrasing, but, copying down the questions (in retrospect, I should have gone to the FB group, searched, and copied & pasted).

 

How did you two first meet? Origin story of show? What made you think of doing this podcast?

answer

How much time do you spend researching the movie you're watching?

answer

These movies are hard to find? Where do you go?

answer

If you could get everyone to watch one movie what would it be?

answer

If you could appear in any movie on the list, which one would you?

answer

Will you ever do an episode comparing the 97 list?

answer

Why haven't they updated it yet?

answer

How many of the films are film capsule entries?

answer

If directors could only have one movie on the list, which one (for each director) would you choose?

• Robert Altman - MASH, Nashville
• Frank Capra - It's a Wonderful Life, Mr Smith Goes to Washington, It Happened One Night
• Charlie Chaplin - Modern Times, City Lights, The Gold Rush
• Francis Ford Coppola - The Godfather,  The Godfather Part II, Apocalypse Now
• Michael Curtiz - Casablanca, Yankee Doodle Dandy
• Victor Flemming - Gone With the Wind, The Wizard of Oz
• John Ford - The Searchers, The Grapes of Wrath
• Alfred Hitchcock - Vertigo, Psycho, Rear Window, North by Northwest
• John Huston - The Maltese Falcon, The African Queen, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
• Elia Kazan - On the Waterfront, A Streetcar Named Desire
• Stanley Kubrick - 2001, A Clockwork Orange, Dr. Strangelove, Spartacus
• David Lean - Bridge of the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia
• George Lucas - Star Wars, America Graffiti
• Sidney Lumet - 12 Angry Men, Network
• Mike Nichols - The Graduate, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? 
• Alan J. Pakula - Sophie's Choice, All the President's Men
• Martin Scorsese - Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Raging Bull
• Stephen Spielberg - Jaws, E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan
• George Stevens - Swing Time, Shane
• Billy Wilder - The Apartment, Some Like It Hot, Double Indemnity, Sunset Boulevard
• William Wyler - Ben-Hur, The Best Years of Our Lives

How do you think we should be viewing this list? eg Historical, Innovations, fun, etc

answer

Which movie are you most looking forward to and why?

answer

There's a lack of female directors and movies from directors of people of color. A lot have been made recently, but they wouldn't have been eligible for the 2007 list because they've come out since then. Are there films that would be eligible for the list you are doing now that you would put on?

answer

A comedy isn't really represented in the AFI top 100. What are some of your favorite comedies? (Not necessarily for the AFI top 100)

answer

Related, what animated or documentary films would you want on the list?

answer

What HDTGM movie would you place on this list?

answer

Will you just own up and admit that you think Scorsese is tremendously overrated?

answer

Would you agree that 1939 was the greatest year for films? If not, which year?

answer

What are your favorite books about movies?

answer

Amy and Paul what is the best theater food snack food or drink?

answer

100 years from now, someone on a ghost tour says you are haunting a location. What location would you want them to say you're haunting?

answer

Updated for the 1 film/director question (thanks Cam Bert!)

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

One thing that crossed my brain while they were answering was how Fargo was on the 97 list and then fell off.  I think a large part of it was the timing of the 2007 list.  While I really liked The Man Who Wasn't There, between '97 and '07, they were adjusting to having a mainstream audience and that's when we got movies like The Ladykillers and Intolerable Cruelty.  It seemed like they became really hot material again with No Country for Old Men, but that came out in late 2007.  I bet voting had already been completed by that point.

This seems to be the reverse of the situation of us wondering how The Sixth Sense was on the 2007 list, The Happening hadn't come out yet.  Though... The Village and The Lady in the Water had.

 

[joshg 207]

I'm feeling an old-man, get-off-my-lawn rant coming on...so apologies, disclaimers, and thanks-for-indulging me in advance.

But...I really lost my patience with this episode. I suppose it's fun to rank our favorite things.  The premise of this podcast is based on a ranking. But then, do we have to obsess about ranking within that ranking? Which movies could be pushed out, which should be pushed in, your ranking of an arbitrarily  25 movies selected from someone else's equally arbitrary top 100 list, how it compares with my top 25...

Is anyone else just a little tired of all the constant ranking? Not from this podcast per se, but in general.  I feel like it has become magnified through the internet, like so many things.  If there is a new Coen Brothers movie review, people will comment on the review by ranking every Coen Bros. movie. Every time a new Bond, Star Wars, Pixar or Marvel movie comes out there has to be a new click-bait list so we know where the new one falls within the existing pantheon. There are entire Youtube channels like WatchMojo that just publish Top 10 lists.  Buzzfeed is all about Top 10 lists. People have such short attention spans that they can't read a full analysis, but they can quickly skim through a ranking. They're short and provide a distilled opinion that can be easily digested and then argued about online. Every Youtube video of a cover song or anything else that exists in multiple versions is immediately deemed superior or inferior to an alternate version.

It's all harmless fun, fine. But personally I've hit my threshold with all this constant comparison.  It's just gotten old for me. There's a Top 100 list...can't we just watch these films, enjoy them, argue about them, and appreciate them on their own terms? Nothing can just be. Obviously this podcast does go deeper, to discuss historical context, themes, significance, etc.  It's just a little dispiriting that the conversation will inevitably lead to assigning a number, as if that was ultimate point. And comparing Duck Soup to Titanic to The Sixth Sense is apples and oranges, anyway.

Thus endeth the mini-rant.

 

[Cam Bert 8145]

On 11/9/2018 at 1:38 PM, ol' eddy wrecks said:

So, just in terms of implementation, would you say the AFI should take the movie that gets the most votes from a director and then just bump off any other movies from the list from that director? Are voters only allowed to vote for one movie per director?  In which case that doesn't prevent a director from having multiple movies on the final list (though, it would probably prevent them from having four or more). I will say, I think they'd need to expand their base list of movies to vote for to beyond just 400 then - I'm not saying this would be wrong, it's just trying to think through.

Another solution could be to reduce the number of movies a single voter submits.  I imagine below a certain number entries, people aren't going to spend slots being redundant as much (though, that's probably similar to the, each ballot can only have one movie per director).  I think my suggestion of that is still just my disbelief this list is counting ballots of top 100 movies, unweighted.  I'm going to just continue to be exasperated by that through the end of this podcast.

 

 

I mean the voting rules could be that you are only allow to submit one film per director thus forcing the voter to decided which they such should be on. Then which one got the most votes if that level was enough that film makes the list and the rest of their titles forfeit. So for example if Jaws got 320 votes and ET got 300, both would qualify it for the list but because Jaws was the highest for that filmmaker, it goes on and E.T. and his other films stricken. Again just a silly theory to try to get a wider variety of things on.