Episode 208 - Harry & Meghan: A Royal Romance LIVE! (w/ Casey Wilson)

[tomspanks 9039]

Did they also build a time machine and get a young Ron Howard to act in it?

[EvRobert 1684]

23 hours ago, theworstbuddhist said:

It sure looks like it, and maybe Jean Smart to his right? If either is true I am watching that shit.
 

well I know what I'm looking for...

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I'm just mad we didn't get to watch The Windsor s Harry and Meghan special which is one of funniest shows out there.  It's absolutely stupid and ridiculous and I love every second of it.

 

[Robert Denby 103]

On 3/2/2019 at 10:34 PM, EvRobert said:

THANK YOU! this was bothering me the whole time

 

 

that's not Victor Garber at the bottom in the red is it?

I'm more freaked out that the guy playing William looks like Robert Pattinson (sans glitter).

[gigi-tastic 2322]

16 minutes ago, Robert Denby said:

I'm more freaked out that the guy playing William looks like Robert Pattinson (sans glitter).

I'm more freaked out about all that hair

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I too was very affected by the loss of Princess Diana. I think she was the first person in the public sphere who I was aware of and whose death meant something. I was only about 6 or 7 when she died but I can still remember hearing the news on the tv and talking about it to my school friends about it. Like at recess during first grade having in depth  (for children) discussions about it. 

I think my top three interests as a kid were the Titanic, Cleopatra, and Princess Diana.... As you do.

[EvRobert 1684]

2 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

I too was very affected by the loss of Princess Diana. I think she was the first person in the public sphere who I was aware of and whose death meant something. I was only about 6 or 7 when she died but I can still remember hearing the news on the tv and talking about it to my school friends about it. Like at recess during first grade having in depth  (for children) discussions about it. 

I think my top three interests as a kid were the Titanic, Cleopatra, and Princess Diana.... As you do.

I was in college and properly drunk when I got home and saw the news and was glued to the television. It was an interesting time

[gigi-tastic 2322]

58 minutes ago, EvRobert said:

I was in college and properly drunk when I got home and saw the news and was glued to the television. It was an interesting time

I distinctly remember explaining to the other kids that the driver had a drinking problem because my mom was active in A.A my whole life lol. 

[nadaj 4]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:13 PM, Elektra Boogaloo said:

But it's not like the Queen knows what it is like to be an African American person. (I'd argue she doesn't even know what it's like to be a person period since her life is so unlike anyone else's.) Nor would she and Harry be considered "mixed race". Charlotte was six generations ago from the Queen, eight for Harry (assuming his dad was Charles haha!). And it was several more generations removed from Queen Charlotte. At a certain point, like, come on.

 

Long time listener, first time poster - and the main reason I joined the boards was to say how tacky this line from the Queen about their non-existent mixed race oppression was, but not as gross as Harry's ginger spiel right after Meghan shared her experiences as a biracial person in the US. As a black woman with biracial children, I was really troubled that the actress playing Meghan sat through a table reading, rehearsal, and final shoot of this scene and apparently thought this portrayal or rather analogy was acceptable. Yep, I'm yucking someone else's yum.

[grudlian. 4725]

3 hours ago, nadaj said:

Long time listener, first time poster - and the main reason I joined the boards was to say how tacky this line from the Queen about their non-existent mixed race oppression was, but not as gross as Harry's ginger spiel right after Meghan shared her experiences as a biracial person in the US. As a black woman with biracial children, I was really troubled that the actress playing Meghan sat through a table reading, rehearsal, and final shoot of this scene and apparently thought this portrayal or rather analogy was acceptable. Yep, I'm yucking someone else's yum.

There is a lot of truth in the queen's attitude here. I don't know about Queen Elizabeth's beliefs personally but just people in general have this attitude of "my great great grandmother was Cherokee. So, let me weigh in on the plight of the Native American people."

As for the ginger thing, I have a close relative who has claimed being oppressed because they are left handed. So, the movie was less tacky than that at least. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

On 3/1/2019 at 2:13 PM, Elektra Boogaloo said:

About Queen Charlotte. She was the wife of George III (of madness fame). She is believed to have had African ancestry, and people commented on her "negroid" features when she was Queen. In the clip, the queen says only one painter, Ramsay, showed her "real" features. That's not true. The painter they mean is Allan Ramsay and he was an abolitionist. He actually accentuated Charlotte's so-called "negroid" features as a way to promote Abolition. It was a form of propaganda since the portraits were sent around to all the colonies. Here is some more on the significance of her paintings from PBS. But the scene where the Queen talks about her with Meghan is odd. It might be a nice gesture to say "hey, we all come from Africa" or something like that. But it's not like the Queen knows what it is like to be an African American person. (I'd argue she doesn't even know what it's like to be a person period since her life is so unlike anyone else's.) Nor would she and Harry be considered "mixed race". Charlotte was six generations ago from the Queen, eight for Harry (assuming his dad was Charles haha!). And it was several more generations removed from Queen Charlotte. At a certain point, like, come on.

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/royalfamily.html

to call Caroline biracial is....frankly ridiculous  to me.  If we go by the reasoning that is given she's a descendent of a branch of the Portuguese royal family related to a 15th century Portuguese noble woman Margrita Dr Castro e Souza whose 9 generations removed. And SHE'S then supposed to be able to have HER  ancestry traced back to the 13th century ruler Alfonso III and his lover Madragana who is BELIEVED to be a Moor. Never mind that the term Blackmoor often could just mean someone Muslim and not actually African.

We're tracing her supposed, possible ancestor back 5 centuries! You cannot call someone biracial for POSSIBLY having a person of color in their lineage.  It's outrageous  and frankly insulting. It goes beyond even the my great great grandmother was a 1/39 Native American so I'm practically a shaman bullshit some people pull.

 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

On 3/2/2019 at 10:23 AM, Maija said:

Loved the episode and everything you do! A tiny correction. Jason said that the actor playing Meghan fell in love with the crown prince of Finland. Unlike many other Nordic countries Finland is actually not a monarchy. We do have a president with a cool dog Lennu!

 

I w would Die for Lennu

[theworstbuddhist 572]

12 hours ago, grudlian. said:

There is a lot of truth in the queen's attitude here. I don't know about Queen Elizabeth's beliefs personally but just people in general have this attitude of "my great great grandmother was Cherokee. So, let me weigh in on the plight of the Native American people."

As for the ginger thing, I have a close relative who has claimed being oppressed because they are left handed. So, the movie was less tacky than that at least. 

When my mom was in elementary school in the 50s, the nuns used to whack her with a ruler to make her write with the right hand. It's about conformity. Gingers absolutely were and are treated poorly in the UK, no idea why apart from general clannish racism. Certain physical characteristics take on cultural meanings that  we wouldn't necessarily relate to, like when a woman had blonde hair in Italy. Not that any of those things are comparable to the experience of being black in America.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

13 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

to call Caroline biracial is....frankly ridiculous  to me.  If we go by the reasoning that is given she's a descendent of a branch of the Portuguese royal family related to a 15th century Portuguese noble woman Margrita Dr Castro e Souza whose 9 generations removed. And SHE'S then supposed to be able to have HER  ancestry traced back to the 13th century ruler Alfonso III and his lover Madragana who is BELIEVED to be a Moor. Never mind that the term Blackmoor often could just mean someone Muslim and not actually African.

We're tracing her supposed, possible ancestor back 5 centuries! You cannot call someone biracial for POSSIBLY having a person of color in their lineage.  It's outrageous  and frankly insulting. It goes beyond even the my great great grandmother was a 1/39 Native American so I'm practically a shaman bullshit some people pull.

 

She was definitely not biracial. They said mixed race, right? That's still not really accurate. I mean, she was white enough to marry the crown prince of England. And they freaked out that Camilla was a commoner in this century. So that's about as white as they come.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

8 hours ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

She was definitely not biracial. They said mixed race, right? That's still not really accurate. I mean, she was white enough to marry the crown prince of England. And they freaked out that Camilla was a commoner in this century. So that's about as white as they come.

I don't even think that that term applies. It would never have been thought of in those terms  in the 1700s. It wouldn't even thought of like that now. Outside of propaganda no one would actually think that the  Queen was mixed race. Mario de Valdes y Cocom is the only historian I know of touting theory. If it were to be real than technically a lot of royalty at the time was "mixed race"  because Charlotte shares that branch (again 9 and 15 generations removed) with several others because that is how royal purity weirdness do.

Do I think there are probably a lot more unknown people of color in royal families? Probably but they would be descendents of servants or slaves if they lived abroad (I'm speaking of all European nobility. Empress Josephine grew up on a plantation in Martinique for example. So it might be possible someone could trace their ancestry back to a member of her family tragically.) So I don't think that it's not impossible just... Improbable? I do think it's important that we look at the people history would rather is not look at rather than trying to make something stick. Like in a way I get the point that everyone even the royal family has ties to people of color in their family line and we need to acknowledge that but this is grasping at straws.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

8 hours ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

She was definitely not biracial. They said mixed race, right? That's still not really accurate. I mean, she was white enough to marry the crown prince of England. And they freaked out that Camilla was a commoner in this century. So that's about as white as they come.

 I think it has less to do with that (her grandfather is a baron I want to say) and more that she was just generally seen as bad news.They freaked out about Camilla because she was seen as unsuitable with a "reputation" . Charles left on some navy thing and didn't ask her to wait for him and she and her first husband were on again off again. I guess their parents actually put an engagement notice in the paper forcing his hand. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Not really on topic but if you guys would like to know about an actual person who was from a noble family I would really encourage you to look up Dido Elizabeth Belle. She was the daughter of a slave and Sir John Lindsey. What's fascinating about her is that by all accounts she was brought to England and raised by his uncle William Murray the first Earl of  Mansfield very similarly to that of her white cousin Lady Elizabeth Murry who he was also raising with his wife. This is fascinating because that just wasn't done back then. By all accounts (tragically few sadly) Dido was treated as a regular member of the family (as she obviously should be) the only time there was ever a difference being when guests were there which must have been awkward because she was sort of an open secret. 

there's a really famous painting of both Dido and Elizabeth together that is known because of the fact Dido is treated as a person and not an object. 

It was unheard of for a person of color to be so present and engaging with  the viewer.  The fact she's even the same size as Elizabeth is significant. This painting is so fascinating it inspired a (pretty good imo as a fan of historical tv/movie nerd) movie Belle. 

[CaptainAmazing 127]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:28 PM, gigi-tastic said:

to call Caroline biracial is....frankly ridiculous  to me.  If we go by the reasoning that is given she's a descendent of a branch of the Portuguese royal family related to a 15th century Portuguese noble woman Margrita Dr Castro e Souza whose 9 generations removed. And SHE'S then supposed to be able to have HER  ancestry traced back to the 13th century ruler Alfonso III and his lover Madragana who is BELIEVED to be a Moor. Never mind that the term Blackmoor often could just mean someone Muslim and not actually African.

We're tracing her supposed, possible ancestor back 5 centuries! You cannot call someone biracial for POSSIBLY having a person of color in their lineage.  It's outrageous  and frankly insulting. It goes beyond even the my great great grandmother was a 1/39 Native American so I'm practically a shaman bullshit some people pull.

 

Came here to say that I looked it up, and Charlotte’s African ancestry is basically a rumor, as you can read here.

While on Wikipedia, I looked up the other thing that I was dying to know, and the answer is yes, she is the Charlotte that the city in North Carolina is named for.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

10 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

Not really on topic but if you guys would like to know about an actual person who was from a noble family I would really encourage you to look up Dido Elizabeth Belle. She was the daughter of a slave and Sir John Lindsey. What's fascinating about her is that by all accounts she was brought to England and raised by his uncle William Murray the first Earl of  Mansfield very similarly to that of her white cousin Lady Elizabeth Murry who he was also raising with his wife. This is fascinating because that just wasn't done back then. By all accounts (tragically few sadly) Dido was treated as a regular member of the family (as she obviously should be) the only time there was ever a difference being when guests were there which must have been awkward because she was sort of an open secret. 

there's a really famous painting of both Dido and Elizabeth together that is known because of the fact Dido is treated as a person and not an object. 

It was unheard of for a person of color to be so present and engaging with  the viewer.  The fact she's even the same size as Elizabeth is significant. This painting is so fascinating it inspired a (pretty good imo as a fan of historical tv/movie nerd) movie Belle. 

There's a really good movie about her called "Belle" staring Gugu M'batha Raw. The whole movie leads up to the reveal of this painting because she's just going through this inner turmoil of not ever really feeling like she's respected as part of the family and she gives a great monologue about how all paintings featuring black people have them as servant children or hidden behind the white people. Then she sees this and she sees how she is standing side by side with her cousin and it's a really beautiful moment.

[Tuffnail 10]

I apologize if someone already brought this up - but looking through the board I do not think anyone has. Megan Merkles BFF stylist is Jessica Mulroney, husband of Ben Mulroney, son of former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. Jessica Mulroney was (I do not think anymore) the stylist for Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, the wife of Justin Trudeau, the current Prime Minister of Canada. So if it was Jessica(/ Sophie maybe) who introduced Megan and Harry, that is not super crazy.

And also, maybe that Vanity Fair quote should have reflected the fact that her stylist/BFF is also a socialite? Canada!

AND, suits was filmed in Toronto. Do Jason, Paul, and June hate Toronto? (there was some reference on the pod to Suits being filmed in Vancouver). Please come do a live show here to make up for it.

[theworstbuddhist 572]

51 minutes ago, Tuffnail said:

I apologize if someone already brought this up - but looking through the board I do not think anyone has. Megan Merkles BFF stylist is Jessica Mulroney, husband of Ben Mulroney, son of former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. Jessica Mulroney was (I do not think anymore) the stylist for Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, the wife of Justin Trudeau, the current Prime Minister of Canada. So if it was Jessica(/ Sophie maybe) who introduced Megan and Harry, that is not super crazy.

And also, maybe that Vanity Fair quote should have reflected the fact that her stylist/BFF is also a socialite? Canada!

AND, suits was filmed in Toronto. Do Jason, Paul, and June hate Toronto? (there was some reference on the pod to Suits being filmed in Vancouver). Please come do a live show here to make up for it.

Glad to know there is a Mulroney who is good at something!

[gigi-tastic 2322]

6 hours ago, taylorannephoto said:

There's a really good movie about her called "Belle" staring Gugu M'batha Raw. The whole movie leads up to the reveal of this painting because she's just going through this inner turmoil of not ever really feeling like she's respected as part of the family and she gives a great monologue about how all paintings featuring black people have them as servant children or hidden behind the white people. Then she sees this and she sees how she is standing side by side with her cousin and it's a really beautiful moment.

It's so good!!!! I only really found out about Dido when the movie came out and then during this great programme on the BBC called A Stitch In Time which recreates outfits from famous paintings using period methods. It's my dream  art/ historical fashion porn.

I want to be Amber Butchart. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

7 hours ago, CaptainAmazing said:

Came here to say that I looked it up, and Charlotte’s African ancestry is basically a rumor, as you can read here.

While on Wikipedia, I looked up the other thing that I was dying to know, and the answer is yes, she is the Charlotte that the city in North Carolina is named for.

Oh interesting! I'm an idiot and for some reason I thought it was PRINCESS Charlotte who was her only adult legitimate daughter of her son George IV (I don't even remember how many mistresses that man had. )

I know when Charlotte died in labor giving birth to a stillborn the whole country was thrown into intense mourning. It w as akin to what happened when Diana died but perhaps more intense (imo) because of the fact that it wasn't unexpected for women to die in childbirth. Whereas Diana's death was so sudden in our modern world. For them to grieve her that badly shows how beloved she was. 

So I thought maybe that was a sign of of goodwill by America. But by then they would have been 2 years out of the war of 1812 which didn't officially end until 1815 (technically 1814 but there was the Battle of New Orleans  which was in 1815 because it took forever to get back to America with the treaty which I fucking love.  It was the greatest victory of the whole war for the Americans AND THE WAR WAS TECHNICALLY OVER! Ah history you crazy bitch!)

[gigi-tastic 2322]

On 3/5/2019 at 9:31 AM, theworstbuddhist said:

When my mom was in elementary school in the 50s, the nuns used to whack her with a ruler to make her write with the right hand. It's about conformity. Gingers absolutely were and are treated poorly in the UK, no idea why apart from general clannish racism. Certain physical characteristics take on cultural meanings that  we wouldn't necessarily relate to, like when a woman had blonde hair in Italy. Not that any of those things are comparable to the experience of being black in America.

This has nothing to do with lefties or gingers but everything to do with nuns.

When my mom was in like 2nd grade the nuns at her school switched from the full habits and veil headdress ( I don't know what anything is called I'm a sacrilegious heathen ) to the more modern skirts and she ran home screaming terrified to my grandma "The nuns have hair and legs!!!!!!" I guess she thought that they sort of glided and that their headdress WAS their hair?

[theworstbuddhist 572]

3 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

This has nothing to do with lefties or gingers but everything to do with nuns.

When my mom was in like 2nd grade the nuns at her school switched from the full habits and veil headdress ( I don't know what anything is called I'm a sacrilegious heathen ) to the more modern skirts and she ran home screaming terrified to my grandma "The nuns have hair and legs!!!!!!" I guess she thought that they sort of glided and that their headdress WAS their hair?

I believe the headdress is called a wimple. 

Has anyone ever seen nuns and Daleks in the same place at the same time?