Musical Mondays Week 61 The Long Dumb Road*

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

Went looking... here's an interview with Jason about his view of the character/story

https://www.slashfilm.com/jason-mantzoukas-interview-long-dumb-road-john-wick-3-how-did-this-get-made/

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

Just now, AlmostAGhost said:

In my personal experience, this was pretty accurate. Like if you're smitten with someone for a long time, and it won't ever happen, it's all in your head, you just need that one thing to push it behind you. Sometimes that moment is hard to get to or find, but when it comes, it goes fast. That's what I saw happening here. I didn't take it as 'whatever'. It was an actual break in his obsession of her. If he were that mercurial, he wouldn't have held on to his feelings for so long, so I don't think that's an excuse here. He makes cringey bad decisions for sure, but I don't think they're totally crazy either.

I agree. I was just pondering why Richard was so quick to emotionally attach. Beyond his obsession with his high school sweetheart, he was so quick to propose to the woman at the restaurant, and I think he was also real quick to be friends with Nat. I've not figured it out yet. Still mulling it over. 

I also felt a little unsatisfied with the ending, but thought it was kind of true to life. You can have these brief, intense experiences, and then they can just be over, and life goes on. I get that it was more profound for Nat because he is right on the precipice of adulthood. Richard comes into his life like a tornado and leaves just as fast. Richard, though, as the tornado itself, just moves through things and leaves a mess in his wake. I think Nat, though, was looking for excitement and something to break free from his typical self, or he wouldn't have let Richard in the car. 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Are guys named Nathan usually nicknamed Nat?  We always call my nephew Nate.

[Cameron H. 23786]

24 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

In my personal experience, this was pretty accurate. Like if you're smitten with someone for a long time, and it won't ever happen, it's all in your head, you just need that one thing to push it behind you. Sometimes that moment is hard to get to or find, but when it comes, it goes fast. That's what I saw happening here. I didn't take it as 'whatever'. It was an actual break in his obsession of her. If he were that mercurial, he wouldn't have held on to his feelings for so long, so I don't think that's an excuse here. He makes cringey bad decisions for sure, but I don't think they're totally crazy either.

I guess I just don't see the point of the scene then. If he doesn't walk away from it changed or having learned something, then what's the point? We learn he has feelings for this woman, they go and see her, it goes sideways, and he moves on - but doesn't really change. Maybe if the confrontation had been later in the movie it would have been better? Like, if he was talking about this woman from the moment he stepped into Nat's car, and drops her name in all their conversations, and then finally meets with her at the end? As it is, the problem is introduced and resolved (but not really) relatively quickly and doesn't seem to impact the character or the plot much at all.

Don't get me wrong, the scene is good, but it doesn't really do anything. I feel like it might be a case of not "killing your darlings."

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

4 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I guess I just don't see the point of the scene then

I'm not gonna defend all the dramatics, because I also felt it wasn't a great film in that regard. Maybe pushing it to the end would have helped give Richard's story some form. 

But I think as it is, it had to do with Nat taking him to her house and even forcing the confrontation - remember, Richard chickened out there and wanted to leave. They were helping each other move forward. Did Richard actually move forward?  Probably not, in the end.  Even though Richard blurting out "I love you" and angrily insulting her family wasn't the right move, Nat did get him literally to the point where he could bury these imaginary feelings that were his big hang-up.

And it does make an impact as it leads directly to him proposing to the other girl, who clearly is just a replacement obsession. (Yes, there's no real growth to Richard's arc, but it is the progression of his story. I think they're related occurrences.)

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

13 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I guess I just don't see the point of the scene then. If he doesn't walk away from it changed or having learned something, then what's the point? We learn he has feelings for this woman, they go and see her, it goes sideways, and he moves on - but doesn't really change. Maybe if the confrontation had been later in the movie it would have been better? Like, if he was talking about this woman from the moment he stepped into Nat's car, and drops her name in all their conversations, and then finally meets with her at the end? As it is, the problem is introduced and resolved (but not really) relatively quickly and doesn't seem to impact the character or the plot much at all.

Don't get me wrong, the scene is good, but it doesn't really do anything. I feel like it might be a case of not "killing your darlings."

I kind of saw its consequences when he proposed in the diner. He was so emotionally bare that he was searching for any connection, so when we meet the two women in the bar and he and Nat have their own nights with them, he's desperate to connect in any way. But yes, it is inconsistent for the character since everything else we see from him, he's extremely mercurial and reactive, yet he's also supposed to be harboring this love for this girl he met in high school? Maybe it would have been better if Casey Wilson tried to use him as a way to escape her suburban life by connecting with this wild free spirit from her youth. Just spitballing.

Speaking of missed opportunities, I could have used several scenes of Pamela Reed as Dotty actually yelling at bears, maybe even saving Richard in the process.

[Cameron H. 23786]

4 hours ago, AlmostAGhost said:

But I think as it is, it had to do with Nat taking him to her house and even forcing the confrontation - remember

Right, which makes it more of moment to show Nat's growth. Maybe the issue is, like Cam said, we don't know that much about Nat. Apparently he's the central character, but the movie tries to play it like a two-hander. If the movie is primarily about Nat and how this tornado of a character upends his life and forces him to change (which I'm not arguing it isn't) then it's really unfortunate that they found so little to do with his character. Up until the very end, all the big moments - emotional or otherwise - are all focused on Richard. Like when Zouks is his having his crazy confrontation with Casey Wilson, Nat is just sitting in this teenage girls' room kind of doing nothing. It's like the movie literally just didn't know what to do with him. And if the movie doesn't seem to really care about its central character, then how am I supposed to?

To focus it back on Nat, and allow Jason a chance to shine, I might have omitted the whole scene with Casey Wilson and kept it focused on Nat with the daughter. Then, as they are talking, have Richard yell out (kind of like what happens) and then have Jason tell us what happened as they make their escape in the car. I know you should try to show not tell, but I think in this case, Zouks could have improv'd something hilarious and kept the focus on the dynamic character’s decisions and growth. Having that scene focus on Zouks, and to not really have it payoff in the end, muddies things up for me.   

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the movie - a lot. I just think it could have been tightened up a bit. I think the filmmakers were, understandably, enamored by Jason and kind of let the film get away from them by shifting the focus from Nat to Richard without necessarily shifting the themes. The passive character grows while the active character doesn’t? It just doesn’t gel for me.

[Cam Bert 8145]

7 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

Right, which makes it more of moment to show Nat's growth. Maybe the issue is, like Cam said, we don't know that much about Nat. Apparently he's the central character, but the movie tries to play it like a two-hander. If the movie is primarily about Nat and how this tornado of a character upends his life and forces him to change (which I'm not arguing it isn't) then it's really unfortunate that they found so little to do with his character. Up until the very end, all the big moments - emotional or otherwise - are all focused on Richard. Like when Zouks is his having his crazy confrontation with Casey Wilson, Nat is just sitting in this teenage girls' room kind of doing nothing. It's like the movie literally just didn't know what to do with him. And if the movie doesn't seem to really care about its central character, then how am I supposed to?

To focus it back on Nat, and allow Jason a chance to shine, I might have omitted the whole scene with Casey Wilson and kept it focused on Nat with the daughter. Then, as they are talking, have Richard yell out (kind of like what happens) and then have Jason tell us what happened as they make their escape in the car. I know you should try to show not tell, but I think in this case, Zouks could have improv'd something hilarious and kept the focus on the dynamic character’s decisions and growth. Having that scene focus on Zouks, and to not really have it payoff in the end, muddies things up for me.   

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the movie - a lot. I just think it could have been tightened up a bit. I think the filmmakers were, understandably, enamored by Jason and kind of let the film get away from them by shifting the focus from Nat to Richard without necessarily shifting the themes. The passive character grows while the active character doesn’t? It just doesn’t gel for me.

Again this combined with some things said earlier about Richard's lack of character development is why the ending never fully landed for me. Like you said it wants to be this two hander but seemingly Richard gets the majority of focus and the fact that there are this moments where he could have growth or change he doesn't. Nat is the audience surrogate so I guess maybe it wants us by spending time with Richard to change like Nat does. Like you said we see very little of Nat separate from Richard. The two scenes are at Casey Wilson's house and when he's with Taissa Farmiga. The first does nothing to further his character and this second should but again because we know so little I'm not sure if it does. She's a fellow art student so she should have had some change on Nat. Either he realizes something about the path he's on and sees need to change or she cements his resolve in what he is doing. I don't feel either of those things come out of it. He remains a bit of blank character and a mystery.

In a a few ways this movie reminds me a bit of Robert Altman's California Split. If you haven't seen the movie it's about a writer who is a small time gambler who meets this larger than life heavy duty gambler. They become friends and the writer starts falling into the world of gambling more and more and they go on a trip to Reno for a big score. However at the end of the movie they heavy duty gambler stays the same while the writer goes through and arc and learns about himself. In a way that's what this movie was going for the Richard character. It's okay if he doesn't change because he's suppose to be the catalyst for change for the other character. The difference being the main focus of California Split is the writer character. There is no doubt that this is his journey and story.  While most of the movie is them together it is the writer who gets scenes alone and a family and backstory. So at the end when Elliot Gould is still Elliot Gould that's fine because there was never any exception or hint of him being more.

Again I don't think this is a bad movie, but I just wish a bit more care was done to balance out the characters or story to match the ending they wanted. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

Also, did anybody else get the feeling there was never any bus station to be dropped off at the start of the movie. I'm not from Texas and the Southwest but that didn't really look like a bus terminal and didn't really look to be open at all for anything. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

Did everyone else keep expecting the dudes in the bar fight to come back? Even as far along as when Dottie’s truck pulls over to pick them up, I fully expected it to be them. I mean, maybe that’s on me. Maybe I’ve seen too many road trip movies, but it felt weird to me that they never came back.

Again, it’s one of those moments where you expect some kind of consequence or payoff but nothing happens. And maybe that’s the point? Maybe the filmmakers were trying to subvert our expectations by saying, “In real life, there aren’t always repercussions.” And that’s fine. But I also think it’s difficult to take those kinds of narrative risks and still have a story that feels “complete.”

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

9 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Also, did anybody else get the feeling there was never any bus station to be dropped off at the start of the movie. I'm not from Texas and the Southwest but that didn't really look like a bus terminal and didn't really look to be open at all for anything. 

I don't remember that but I was happy that Nat double-checked Richard's statement that there was no bus station in the one town.  I thought sure it was going to be Richard BS'ing to keep Nat around but it was true.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Sorry I missed this week you guys! I was really looking forward to it! My cat Albus had to have two emergency (minor) surgeries . One on Thursday and one again Monday when I noticed he was bleeding. I just got him home and he seems to be MUCH better. The vet staff pretty much wanted to keep him forever lol. He was eating everything in sight though they said. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

7 minutes ago, gigi-tastic said:

Sorry I missed this week you guys! I was really looking forward to it! My cat Albus had to have two emergency (minor) surgeries . One on Thursday and one again Monday when I noticed he was bleeding. I just got him home and he seems to be MUCH better. The vet staff pretty much wanted to keep him forever lol. He was eating everything in sight though they said. 

I’m sorry about your cat, but glad to hear he’s doing better  

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Apologies for being out of touch.  I have had some health issues that don't need details.  You just need to know I had a cardiac catheterization last week and had a stent put in my heart.  I am still planning to host a showing of Shallow Grave this evening at 9 p.m.  I can also do one tomorrow night if people want.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Apologies for being out of touch.  I have had some health issues that don't need details.  You just need to know I had a cardiac catheterization last week and had a stent put in my heart.  I am still planning to host a showing of Shallow Grave this evening at 9 p.m.  I can also do one tomorrow night if people want.

Holy crap! 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

The room is open but Rabbir won't start broadcasting until at least one other person joins.  I will start the movie at 9:10 to allow for latecomers or people who want to watch one part.

Watch with me in HDTGM MM: https://www.rabb.it/s/w490j4

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

51 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

The room is open but Rabbir won't start broadcasting until at least one other person joins.  I will start the movie at 9:10 to allow for latecomers or people who want to watch one part.

Watch with me in HDTGM MM: https://www.rabb.it/s/w490j4

I went ahead and closed the room.  I apologize for the short notice.  WIll try again tomorrow night.

[Cam Bert 8145]

On 3/15/2019 at 5:56 AM, Cinco DeNio said:

Apologies for being out of touch.  I have had some health issues that don't need details.  You just need to know I had a cardiac catheterization last week and had a stent put in my heart.  I am still planning to host a showing of Shallow Grave this evening at 9 p.m.  I can also do one tomorrow night if people want.

That sounds serious. I hope everything is okay with you

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

17 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

That sounds serious. I hope everything is okay with you

It will be.  I had to see a cardiologist to get cleared for a gastric bypass.  They did a nuclear stress test since I can't run on a treadmill.  The test showed a possible blockage in the front of my heart so a cardiac catheterization was the best way to find out for sure.  I didn't think anything would show up because I had the same procedure five years ago and it showed nothing.  I also was having no symptoms now.  It was purely diagnostic.

Well the catheterization DID find a blockage and they put a stent in right then.  A week later I still don't feel well and my body is adjusting.  I also have a bad cold that makes me cough.  The cough inflames the chest wall and the stent irritated the wall so it can really hurt.  I saw my primary care doctor yesterday morning and she gave me some medicines to help deal with the various issues.  I should be up and running sometime next week, just in time for multiple showings of my next pick.

Thank you all for the well wishes and care. I have a great group of friends here and I am very grateful.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I meant to add that the gastric bypass is most likely off for now because of needing the stent.  I see the surgeon in a month to make it official.  That's OK.  I have a great mentor who is working with me to lose weight by eating right.  I want to lose as much as I can that way so that if the surgery does happen I will be better prepared and have shown I can make the needed changes.  If it doesn't happen I still win.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

On 3/14/2019 at 6:46 PM, Cameron H. said:

Holy crap! 

I apologize but my demented upbringing made me think of this when you called me boo.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I think I have the room working on my iPad.

HOP IN! Join me in @LetsRabbit https://www.rabb.it/s/9h39co

[Cameron H. 23786]

41 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

It will be.  I had to see a cardiologist to get cleared for a gastric bypass.  They did a nuclear stress test since I can't run on a treadmill.  The test showed a possible blockage in the front of my heart so a cardiac catheterization was the best way to find out for sure.  I didn't think anything would show up because I had the same procedure five years ago and it showed nothing.  I also was having no symptoms now.  It was purely diagnostic.

Well the catheterization DID find a blockage and they put a stent in right then.  A week later I still don't feel well and my body is adjusting.  I also have a bad cold that makes me cough.  The cough inflames the chest wall and the stent irritated the wall so it can really hurt.  I saw my primary care doctor yesterday morning and she gave me some medicines to help deal with the various issues.  I should be up and running sometime next week, just in time for multiple showings of my next pick.

Thank you all for the well wishes and care. I have a great group of friends here and I am very grateful.

Hey man, it sounds like you’ve got a great positive attitude going into this. I wish you luck whatever the outcome, and if you ever need a place to vent your frustrations, we’re always here  

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Just now, Cameron H. said:

Hey man, it sounds like you’ve got a great positive attitude going into this. I wish you luck whatever the outcome, and if you ever need a place to vent your frustrations, we’re always here  

I have to at least live through the next two weeks!

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Apologies.  Had iPad issues so I am on my PC and in the room.

Watch with me in HDTGM MM: https://www.rabb.it/s/w490j4