EPISODE #223 - Disclosure (1994)

[Cameron H. 23786]

Ultimately, I don’t think Moore and Sutherland we’re too off base in trying to get Douglas fires for incompetency. No, the production issues weren’t the result of any direct action of his, but apparently his ex-girlfriend had been busy sabotaging his work in Malaysia for months without him noticing a goddamn thing. He’s the Manufacturing Department Head, for fuck’s sake, and under his purview, drastic changes were being implemented by a freaking outsider right under his stupid nose.

I may not know much about the manufacturing of CD-ROMs, but I know ineptitude when I see it. It shouldn’t take a sexual harassment charge to get you to figure out just how badly you’re fucking it up at work. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

Can somebody help explain the company Michael Douglas works for to me.

So we know that the company is large enough to have multiple branches. So is the Seattle office the main office or just another branch? Demi Moore, Doanld Sutherland, and Dylan Baker all are said to come up from the South. They are all higher ups, so it makes it seem that they are at the main office which is down south. However, they are picking a VP from the Seattle office and the VP position seems to be based out of the Seattle office. At first I thought Donald Sutherland was up in Seattle because the company they were merging with was based out of Seattle as well. They aren't because they're staying at a hotel and the president of the merging company isn't going to be there until the day of the merger. It just all much no sense and has no flow. I don't work in the corporate world so is it normal to have the VP and President to be based out of separate branches? Also is there not a branch manager? Do presidents have offices in all branches that sit there unused until the president shows up for short periods?

[GrahamS. 803]

15 hours ago, taylorannephoto said:

@Smigg. & @GrahamS. I want to honestly thank the both of you for opening up to us all. I know personally how hard it is to even talk about this, but y'all are doing a good thing (much better than this fucking movie) and we're all here with y'all. My experiences with sexual assault and harassment started when I was just 11 years old, and has continued well into my 20s, so I seriously want to thank y'all for sharing today.

To make an incredibly dark subject light again because I'm sure none of us can deal without trying to make each other laugh I present this.

@taylorannephotoThanks for the shout out! i’m sorry that you’ve had your own experiences to deal with (I also regret that it’s hard to sympathize/empathize/whatever the phrase is without it feeling somewhat trite).

i’m doing this by phone and don’t have a catchy gif to easily add for a lighter touch,  but I will link to this Christopher Walken/Spike Jonze video (that’s not related to ANYTHING else in this thread), because who doesn’t like to see Christopher Walken dance?

 

[GrahamS. 803]

@taylorannephotoalso, since I didn’t directly say it, thank you for sharing.

[GrahamS. 803]

Also also, that music video is better than anything in Disclosure.

[DanEngler 5249]

While I have my own relatively mundane story about the choir director at my church (who later served a lengthy jail sentence for plying other teenage boys with alcohol and smut), I was thankfully old enough and cynical enough to see the writing on the wall and extricate myself from that nightmare-in-the-making. But I wanted to take a moment to say I'm glad all of you are here and able to turn this terrible movie into a net positive.

And, if we're talking Spike Jonze dance videos, to share the greatest perfume ad of all time:

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

5 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Can somebody help explain the company Michael Douglas works for to me.

So we know that the company is large enough to have multiple branches. So is the Seattle office the main office or just another branch? Demi Moore, Doanld Sutherland, and Dylan Baker all are said to come up from the South. They are all higher ups, so it makes it seem that they are at the main office which is down south. However, they are picking a VP from the Seattle office and the VP position seems to be based out of the Seattle office. At first I thought Donald Sutherland was up in Seattle because the company they were merging with was based out of Seattle as well. They aren't because they're staying at a hotel and the president of the merging company isn't going to be there until the day of the merger. It just all much no sense and has no flow. I don't work in the corporate world so is it normal to have the VP and President to be based out of separate branches? Also is there not a branch manager? Do presidents have offices in all branches that sit there unused until the president shows up for short periods?

That’s what’s crazy to me too. I was under the impression that Demi was an outside asset or something. Otherwise, I don’t understand how his girlfriend from nearly a decade ago could not only be working at the same company as Douglas but also up for the same position, and he has absolutely no idea about it.

Again, Douglas seems to be pretty shitty at his job. Like, the kind of unprofessional, mediocre guy who gets passed over for the position he just sort of assumed he’d get, so he calls a staff meeting so he can throw a temper tantrum in front of all of them like a toddler. I mean, why does he think that he’s such a shoe in for a promotion that he ties it up for work that day, but is also somehow in a scenario that he could feasibly be fired or transferred from his job, and he’s not really all that surprised. Did he not interview for the VP position? They clearly never told him that the job was 100% his. And honestly, unless he had the job absolutely locked, he really should have been on time for work that day. That’s cocky as shit. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

So, what do you all think happens after the credits roll? The movie frames it as a happy ending, and I suppose there is some measure of vindication at the end for Douglas’ character, but ultimately he still works for a company whose Machiavellian CEO and corporate toady sidekicks were more than willing to frame and fire him for incompetence over an allegation that they knew to be false. They clearly preferred Demi for the job, who wasn’t fired so much for what she did, but because she was publicly caught. 

Why should Douglas think for even a second that there won’t be further retaliation? And even if he made such a good impression at the shareholders’ meeting that he’s effectively proved his worth and saved his job, why would he want to stay there? Fuck that place.  

[Cameron H. 23786]

I still don’t understand why they would lead him on that he was going to get this huge promotion, only to pull the rug out from under his feet. How does professionally and mentally fucking with Douglas benefit the company at all? Also, what kind of company would announce the promotion of an employee to an executive level position without first formally offering the job to that person in private? It drives me fucking crazy that Douglas just drove into work like a cocky sonuvabitch and nary a contract had been signed.

[Cam Bert 8145]

3 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

That’s what’s crazy to me too. I was under the impression that Demi was an outside asset or something. Otherwise, I don’t understand how his girlfriend from nearly a decade ago could not only be working at the same company as Douglas but also up for the same position, and he has absolutely no idea about it.

Again, Douglas seems to be pretty shitty at his job. Like, the kind of unprofessional, mediocre guy who gets passed over for the position he just sort of assumed he’d get, so he calls a staff meeting so he can throw a temper tantrum in front of all of them like a toddler. I mean, why does he think that he’s such a shoe in for a promotion that he ties it up for work that day, but is also somehow in a scenario that he could feasibly be fired or transferred from his job, and he’s not really all that surprised. Did he not interview for the VP position? They clearly never told him that the job was 100% his. And honestly, unless he had the job absolutely locked, he really should have been on time for work that day. That’s cocky as shit. 

 

2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

I still don’t understand why they would lead him on that he was going to get this huge promotion, only to pull the rug out from under his feet. How does professionally and mentally fucking with Douglas benefit the company at all? Also, what kind of company would announce the promotion of an employee to an executive level position without first formally offering the job to that person in private? I drives me fucking crazy that Douglas just drove into work like a cocky sonuvabitch and nary a contract had been signed.

I mean this is classic cool non-tie guy Mikey Dougs behavior right there. Now, Michael Crichton wrote Disclosure on the heels of the slightly problematic Rising Sun and might have had Japanese business practices on the mind in which seniority a vast majority of the time out weighs cause for advancement. Therefore Mikey Dougs being the most senior member of stuff just assumes the position is going to him because he's been there the longest. Also in all of this what is A Friend's position? Is she the head of a different department? Is the manufacturing division Mikey Dougs cool guy leads the most important or highest performing department? I mean the position is Vice President and I assume that's the whole company, don't you think your competition would be the other heads of all the other departments across all the other branches? Again, Mikey Dougs doesn't wear a tie! He doesn't close his office door, he's your pal and mine. He likes to joke and have a good time but at the end of the day he's a business man. Nah, the balls on that guy means he assumes everything is coming to him. He's also the same kind of guy that puts on a tie before brushing his teeth. Brazen all around.

[Cam Bert 8145]

2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

So, what do you all think happens after the credits roll? The movie frames it as a happy ending, and I suppose there is some measure of vindication at the end for Douglas’ character, but ultimately he still works for a company whose Machiavellian CEO and corporate toady sidekicks were more than willing to frame and fire him for incompetence over an allegation that they knew to be false. They clearly preferred Demi for the job, who wasn’t fired so much for what she did, but because she was publicly caught. 

Why should Douglas think for even a second that there won’t be further retaliation? And even if he made such a good impression at the shareholders’ meeting that he’s effectively proved his worth and saved his job, why would he want to stay there? Fuck that place.  

What's even more shocking to me is does he not see the plan was always to blame him and he just kinda happened into the harassment?

The top brass knew Demi was making cuts and changes. They were cool with it because it saves them money. Therefore she gets the promotion. However, before any of the sexual harassment stuff starts they are already plotting against him in anticipation of their changes ruining the project. The plan was always to get Michael Douglas somehow to take the blame or the fall for the Alkamax stuff. The sexual harassment was just a convenient cover to set him up. They were going to send him to Tuscon or where ever because they needed him around as a scapegoat for the upper brass. However, Michael Douglass even after puts this all together doesn't really seem to see the forest through the trees. He gets his revenge on Demi, but fails to see the plan was never for him to get promoted and for him to always take the fall. Why on Earth would you want to work for a company that toyed with you and only kept you around to shift blame upon you when things hit the fan. Sure, A Friend is VP now, but he also thought the boss and the lawyer were his friends as well and they played him like a fiddle. Is he so dumb, he thinks she'll always have his back and this company won't hang him out to dry ever? Based on the fact he doesn't see all this and quits after the press conference combined with his carefree ignorance in assuming he had a promotion, I'm going to say he continued going to work thinking everything was back to normal. Suddenly more and more cuts are made to his department. Promotions among his staff to new created positions that out ranked him. Slow moves like that that slowly turn the heat up on the water the frog is in. Until one day it comes all crashing down on him and everybody is left dumbfounded and asking "How did you not see this coming?"

[Cam Bert 8145]

 I'm glad Jason brought up the daughter's line about never believing what was said. To me that was the truly the most bonkers thing in the movie because if all this is going on why would you tell your kids and if you do tell them why not sugar coat it a little. They did not. How do we know? The email she sends him at the very end of the movie. The email, which is sent from his own email so I guess his family doesn't have a personal email, reads " Daddy we miss you  A Family." Lack of proper punctuation aside does that not seem strange to anyone? Why would your young daughter sign something "A Family" and not "Your Family"? Well she was obviously making reference to the cryptic "A Friend" emails he was receiving. This means at some he told his kids about the emails or he told his wife and she told the kids. Why would you tell them that much information? They are like 5 and 7! They aren't going to understand any of this and yet you tell them about weird cryptic emails and your ex-lovers? What kind of bonkers family is this?

Also, why does she miss him? He's been going home every night. Granted he had three late nights that week but I assume he was still having breakfast with them in the morning and taking them to school. They clearly had time to sit down and tell the kids the play by play of the sexual harassment claims. So when exactly was he away enough for his daughter to think, "You know what I miss daddy being around."? Unless of course she means she misses having her cool guy tieless Mikey Dougs daddy around because this week he's been gloomy serious tie wearing Michael Douglas. If that's the case, I guess she's mature enough to handle all the details of the case.

[ChunkStyle 1160]

9 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Can somebody help explain the company Michael Douglas works for to me.

So we know that the company is large enough to have multiple branches. So is the Seattle office the main office or just another branch? Demi Moore, Doanld Sutherland, and Dylan Baker all are said to come up from the South. They are all higher ups, so it makes it seem that they are at the main office which is down south. However, they are picking a VP from the Seattle office and the VP position seems to be based out of the Seattle office. At first I thought Donald Sutherland was up in Seattle because the company they were merging with was based out of Seattle as well. They aren't because they're staying at a hotel and the president of the merging company isn't going to be there until the day of the merger. It just all much no sense and has no flow. I don't work in the corporate world so is it normal to have the VP and President to be based out of separate branches? Also is there not a branch manager? Do presidents have offices in all branches that sit there unused until the president shows up for short periods?

In the corporate world there can essentially be an unlimited number of VPs within the company.  At my old job the head of our office was a VP but the only people under him in the corporate structure were in our office.  The VPs have control of their own little kingdoms but not necessarily company-wide authority.  It was odd that they chose the Seattle office for the merger and not wherever the corporate headquarters were but I guess you could say it makes since if Corridor was their crown jewel and they wanted to show that off as part of the merger.

As for the future of Michael Douglas at DigiCom after he survived the ouster attempt and got passed over for the promotion again he can go into a mode known as "resting and vesting".  He has his stock options which presumably will be very valuable from the merger.  He just has to hang on at the company long enough for those options to mature then he cashes in and he is out the door.

[Cam Bert 8145]

3 minutes ago, ChunkStyle said:

In the corporate world there can essentially be an unlimited number of VPs within the company.  At my old job the head of our office was a VP but the only people under him in the corporate structure were in our office.  The VPs have control of their own little kingdoms but not necessarily company-wide authority.  It was odd that they chose the Seattle office for the merger and not wherever the corporate headquarters were but I guess you could say it makes since if Corridor was their crown jewel and they wanted to show that off as part of the merger.

As for the future of Michael Douglas at DigiCom after he survived the ouster attempt and got passed over for the promotion again he can go into a mode known as "resting and vesting".  He has his stock options which presumably will be very valuable from the merger.  He just has to hang on at the company long enough for those options to mature then he cashes in and he is out the door.

Thank you explaining it ChunkStyle. However, do presidents have such luxurious offices in each branch? Seems kinda like a waste of space.

[ChunkStyle 1160]

3 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Thank you explaining it ChunkStyle. However, do presidents have such luxurious offices in each branch? Seems kinda like a waste of space.

We actually did have an office that was kept open for traveling executives to use when they were in town but it wasn't luxurious.  But if Donald Sutherland stands to personally make 100 million dollars from the corporate merger (which is how I took what he said in the movie, not that the company was worth 100 million) then he might be the kind of guy that would demand a luxurious office waiting for him at every branch.

[Cam Bert 8145]

2 minutes ago, ChunkStyle said:

We actually did have an office that was kept open for traveling executives to use when they were in town but it wasn't luxurious.  But if Donald Sutherland stands to personally make 100 million dollars from the corporate merger (which is how I took what he said in the movie, not that the company was worth 100 million) then he might be the kind of guy that would demand a luxurious office waiting for him at every branch.

[Cameron H. 23786]

38 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

 I'm glad Jason brought up the daughter's line about never believing what was said. To me that was the truly the most bonkers thing in the movie because if all this is going on why would you tell your kids and if you do tell them why not sugar coat it a little. They did not. How do we know? The email she sends him at the very end of the movie. The email, which is sent from his own email so I guess his family doesn't have a personal email, reads " Daddy we miss you  A Family." Lack of proper punctuation aside does that not seem strange to anyone? Why would your young daughter sign something "A Family" and not "Your Family"? Well she was obviously making reference to the cryptic "A Friend" emails he was receiving. This means at some he told his kids about the emails or he told his wife and she told the kids. Why would you tell them that much information? They are like 5 and 7! They aren't going to understand any of this and yet you tell them about weird cryptic emails and your ex-lovers? What kind of bonkers family is this?

Also, why does she miss him? He's been going home every night. Granted he had three late nights that week but I assume he was still having breakfast with them in the morning and taking them to school. They clearly had time to sit down and tell the kids the play by play of the sexual harassment claims. So when exactly was he away enough for his daughter to think, "You know what I miss daddy being around."? Unless of course she means she misses having her cool guy tieless Mikey Dougs daddy around because this week he's been gloomy serious tie wearing Michael Douglas. If that's the case, I guess she's mature enough to handle all the details of the case.

Absolutely! It’s clear that he doesn’t have separate work and personal email addresses based on the fact that she reads a work email from his home office in the opening scene. Has she been reading all of his emails? Did she read the “Is your cock hard yet” one? Why isn’t he password protecting sensitive corporate and pornographic messages? And don’t tell me he doesn’t get sexually explicit messages from Miller all day long. That was the first person Douglas suspected.

Motherfucker is trash! He deserves to be fired!

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

Absolutely! It’s clear that he doesn’t have separate work and personal email addresses based on the fact that she reads a work email from his home office in the opening scene. Has she been reading all of his emails? Did she read the “Is your cock hard yet” one? Why isn’t he password protecting sensitive corporate messages? 

Motherfucker is trash! He deserves to be fired!

I mean that's probably why they had to tell the kids.

Family is sitting around the breakfast table. The little ones are spooning large helpings of cereal in their mouth while Michael Douglas is telling them about the importance of hard work and loyalty. The first time he says the phrase "hard work" the daughter looks up and asks, "Like when your cock is hard?"

Panic sets in across the kitchen. "Where did you hear that?" Michael Douglas shouts.

"It was in your email. I printed it out. Does it mean hard work?" The can of beans was opened so why not spill it all.

[Cameron H. 23786]

16 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I mean that's probably why they had to tell the kids.

Family is sitting around the breakfast table. The little ones are spooning large helpings of cereal in their mouth while Michael Douglas is telling them about the importance of hard work and loyalty. The first time he says the phrase "hard work" the daughter looks up and asks, "Like when your cock is hard?"

Panic sets in across the kitchen. "Where did you hear that?" Michael Douglas shouts.

"It was in your email. I printed it out. Does it mean hard work?" The can of beans was opened so why not spill it all.

Also, I'm not to sure how email worked in the Way Back, but just because he deleted that "Is your cock hard" message, shouldn't it theoretically still be in his Trash folder? This movie would have been ten minutes long if he just went directly to his office and printed out that email (the standard way to imbibe them I've been led to believe) and been like, "Here is time-stamped evidence that right before I went to her office someone sent me this anonymous, sexually explicit message. I sure as shit didn't send it to myself. I'm pretty sure, as a bleeding edge tech company we could figure out someway to find out who sent this."

Then again, if Douglas is such a shitty computer engineer not to check his Trash folder, then...he should probably be fired for incompetency. 

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

On 9/29/2019 at 2:33 AM, GrahamS. said:

There is a possible cause for Kirk Douglas’ behavior that is briefly described in the article that Electra Boogaloo linked to In the New York Post (once again, the article is called  A look back at Kirk Douglas’ most famous sexual conquests, By Linda Massarella, December 8, 2016).

in the article, Ms. Massarella writes how Douglas’ sexual experiences started.

“It began with his English teacher, a Mrs. Livingston, who seduced him when he was 14, he said.”

Ummm, that’s rape. I get the feeling that Douglas might not view it as such, or has talked himself into the belief that it’s proof of his machismo, but at one point he appears to have been a victim.

I’m not saying that this excuses anything he’s done—not by a fucking long shot. But... I’ve worked in a middle school. Any 14-year-old that I know would be severely traumatized by a sexual encounter with their adult teacher. It would warp how they relate to people sexually. Perhaps Kirk Douglas is old-school and superhuman and immune to feeling vulnerable—and I honestly don’t know shit about him, he might be—but it wouldn’t be very hard to theoretically link his experience with his teacher to how he treated women in his life.

And I guess I did just that, as convincingly as I could.

Abuse is a cycle. People who are abused often copy the behavior. That is why we have to talk about it and get therapy and be better. I didn't know this about Kirk Douglas but it explains a lot, actually. (Possibly, if the rumors are true, why he would rape Natalie Wood who was also a teenager because he wouldn't see her as under any age of consent.)

 

Anyway, thanks to those who shared their stories. I was sexually assaulted by a maintence man who came to fix a carbon monoxide detector in my apartment. I've often wondered if society (see: porn) might have put a bug in his brain that it's okay to climb into a woman's bed if she's invited you into her bedroom (because the goddamn CO2 monitor has been going off since 4 am!).

I do think the messages we send in media are important.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I’m sorry so many of you had such shitty things happen to you. I don’t feel like any of my options to recognize what you’re saying (i.e smiley faced “likes”) are really appropriate, but I just wanted you all to know that hear all of you.

[DanEngler 5249]

42 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I don’t feel like any of my options to recognize what you’re saying (i.e smiley faced “likes”) are really appropriate, but I just wanted you all to know that hear all of you.

After considering many options for a symbol of "friendly encouragement about thorny issues", I've added a new reaction type that I hope everyone will find suitable.

[Cameron H. 23786]

5 minutes ago, DanEngler said:

After considering many options for a symbol of "friendly encouragement about thorny issues", I've added a new reaction type that I hope everyone will find suitable.

Perfect!

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

2 hours ago, DanEngler said:

After considering many options for a symbol of "friendly encouragement about thorny issues", I've added a new reaction type that I hope everyone will find suitable.

this is great.

[grudlian. 4725]

5 hours ago, DanEngler said:

After considering many options for a symbol of "friendly encouragement about thorny issues", I've added a new reaction type that I hope everyone will find suitable.

I really hope this is site wide and a bunch of people never see this thread. They'll always wonder "why is hedgehog a reaction?"