Musical Mondays Week 90 Hair

[Cameron H. 23786]

He’s proud of the fleas in his hair..?

We watched:

[Cameron H. 23786]

A bit embarrassing as this was my pick, but I’m not quite done yet. I’ll try to finish by the end of the day. I’m looking forward to hearing what everyone else has to though

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

1 hour ago, Cameron H. said:

A bit embarrassing as this was my pick, but I’m not quite done yet. I’ll try to finish by the end of the day. I’m looking forward to hearing what everyone else has to though

I'm not done either.  Story at 11.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

1 hour ago, Cameron H. said:

A bit embarrassing as this was my pick, but I’m not quite done yet. I’ll try to finish by the end of the day. I’m looking forward to hearing what everyone else has to though

Are you trying to get through all that Hair? (Sorry.)

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

1 hour ago, Cameron H. said:

He’s proud of the fleas in his hair..?

We watched:

At the risk of stepping on toes, I found this bonkers poster.  Hair is the Star Wars of movie musicals!

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Then there's this Polish poster.  The movie text is almost on there as an afterthought.  I can't quite figure out what is going on here.  At least it's not an Afro.

[grudlian. 4725]

The movie I think sides with Berger and his friends but they also come across as a bit ridiculous. I appreciate that it's not quite taking a strong stance one way or the other on the hippies. I wonder how I would have taken this movie had I watched it as a teen.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I never watched That Thing You Do! when it was selected but I just found this.  It's behind a paywall for me but maybe you all can read it.  There's a reunion watch party that will take place.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I think the movie was mostly even-handed with the hippies, but when the group was sort such a bunch of unfeeling dicks to Hud's fiance and her child, my reaction was "fuck these clowns." As much as I am a Big Time Leftist and abhor everything the Vietnam War stood for, I was not behind these dumb-dumbs. Sure, I hate authoritarian institutions represented by the military at the end, and I felt sorry for Claude's plight, but the whole madcap ending where Berger ends up going to Vietnam? That strained by sense of credulity even for a musical.

[grudlian. 4725]

6 minutes ago, Quasar Sniffer said:

I think the movie was sort of even-handed with the hippies, but when the group was sort such a bunch of unfeeling dicks to Hud's fiance and her child, my reaction was "fuck these clowns." As much as I am a Big Time Leftist and abhor everything the Vietnam War stood for, I was not behind these dumb-dumbs. Sure, I hate authoritarian institutions represented by the military at the end, and I felt sorry for Claude's plight, but the whole madcap ending where Berger ends up going to Vietnam? That strained by sense of credulity even for a musical.

Yeah, the middle of this movie really soured me on the characters. I'm already pretty anti-hippy (but also pretty far left and anti-authority) and the scene with Hud/Lafayette really nailed what I don't like about the kind of wannabe hippy people I knew in high school.

I agree with you about how preposterous the final act is but I was still weirdly moved by Berger going to war to die.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

The movie I think sides with Berger and his friends but they also come across as a bit ridiculous. I appreciate that it's not quite taking a strong stance one way or the other on the hippies. I wonder how I would have taken this movie had I watched it as a teen.

Yea I wondered this in my Letterboxd. I truly couldn't tell. It seems like it's supposed to pro-hippie, but also goes out of the way to make them look pathetic. I kind of wish it had a bit more of a stance on this.

But I did like it, it's super crazy. The songs are NUTS. The situations are even weirder. 

But honestly, I found the deeply ironic ending to be really good. It's all sort of nonsense before that, but I thought it was a good twist ending. 

[grudlian. 4725]

32 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Yea I wondered this in my Letterboxd. I truly couldn't tell. It seems like it's supposed to pro-hippie, but also goes out of the way to make them look pathetic. I kind of wish it had a bit more of a stance on this.

But I did like it, it's super crazy. The songs are NUTS. The situations are even weirder. 

But honestly, I found the deeply ironic ending to be really good. It's all sort of nonsense before that, but I thought it was a good twist ending. 

I'm curious how much of this is updating the movie for the time period. My understanding is the musical was very pro counter culture. In 1979, I'd assume the hippie era was probably seen as silly and ineffective. But maybe the musical was always kind of silly and the characters were accepted because society was in the thick of it?

The movie had some pretty notable changes apparently. Claude was the leader of the hippies. He died instead of Berger. So, I don't know if the more complex view of the hippies is due to hindsight or updating it for the times. Has anyone seen the musical?

[grudlian. 4725]

For example, the song Black Boys are delicious or whatever it's called night have been kind of a big deal at the time. The musical came out in 1968 (I think) and that's a year after Guess Who's Going To Dinner (which also has its faults). So, the idea of people having interracial relationships was still kind pretty taboo.

Interracial relationships can still be not accepted in a lot of places but the song came across as kind of gross and racist now. So, I'd don't know if the hippies being ridiculous is a matter of time just making outdated ideals seem preposterous.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I kinda loved this film for just how bonkers it was songs included but all the songs I thought were a lot of fun.

I looked up after the difference between this film and the musical and there are lots of differences. For example Claude is the leader and Berger is just a free spirit in the group. Halfway through the first act Claude is drafted. The ending of course follows with this idea and minus the flip flop plays out the same. However, one of the biggest differences is that the musical is all about the hippies and their way of life and beliefs and thoughts. In 1968 those things are maybe progressive and new  but like what was said in 1978 those ideas are kinda just the now. So I think smartly so Milos Forman reconfigured the story to just have the core group floating about and we see character go in and out of them. Again smart because we're a bit past hippies but also because hippies suck.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

What really bothered me about the ending is that Berger switching with Claude so he could have an afternoon with his friends is the only selfless thing he or any of the hippies do in the whole fucking movie. You know, the kind of charitable act that serves your fellow humans that hippie philosophy was supposed to be about. So of course it FUCKING KILLS HIM.

[Cam Bert 8145]

24 minutes ago, Quasar Sniffer said:

What really bothered me about the ending is that Berger switching with Claude so he could have an afternoon with his friends is the only selfless thing he or any of the hippies do in the whole fucking movie. You know, the kind of charitable act that serves your fellow humans that hippie philosophy was supposed to be about. So of course it FUCKING KILLS HIM.

Maybe it's just my dislike of hippies but I really liked it.

First you have the just on a thematic level that for the first time in his life he has to follow orders and it kills him. Second, because I never thought he was a great guy to begin with. He pretend to do things throughout the movie that he claims is for the best of everyone or Claude but are really about his wants. Claude has the money to get out and go to the army which is what he wants to do but Berger talks Claude into freeing himself instead. His plan for money nearly fails and while doing it he's putting the moves on the girl he's suppose to be helping Claude get with. I know the hippies are all about free love and that, but he keeps doing things so Claude can be with her, yet keeps throwing wrenches in the works whenever he can. He constantly thinks he's smarter and better than those around him and in the end truly does a selfless act.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Just finished!

I'm with all of you in that a) hippies suck and b ) I enjoyed this for its insanity. Every gloopy, glopy lyric is fucking amazing. I particularly liked "They'll be ga ga at the go go when they see me in my toga/ My toga made of blond, brilliantined, biblical hair/ My hair like Jesus wore it, Hallelujah, I adore it."

I'm also pro-Berger dying. Fuck that guy. When it cut to Arlington, my jaw dropped. 

Going into the idea of whether the movie is pro or anti hippie, I think it's pro their basic ideology, but recognizes that music and free love isn't exactly effective either. It's implied that Berger doesn't just die because it was a war and that's what happens, but because he didn't possess any of the tools required to survive. He's a smart ass, but he doesn't actually know shit from shinola. He's just a dummy who thinks a goofy smile, drugs, and benign platitudes are enough to rule the day. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

5 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Just finished!

I'm with all of you in that a) hippies suck and b ) I enjoyed this for its insanity. Every gloopy, glopy lyric is fucking amazing. I particularly liked "They'll be ga ga at the go go when they see me in my toga/ My toga made of blond, brilliantined, biblical hair/ My hair like Jesus wore it, Hallelujah, I adore it."

I'm also pro-Berger dying. Fuck that guy. When it cut to Arlington, my jaw dropped. 

Going into the idea of whether the movie is pro or anti hippie, I think it's pro their basic ideology, but recognizes that music and free love isn't exactly effective either. It's implied that Berger doesn't just die because it was a war and that's what happens, but because he didn't possess any of the tools required to survive. He's a smart ass, but he doesn't actually know shit from shinola. He's just a dummy who thinks a goofy smile, drugs, and benign platitudes are enough to rule the day. 

I think that's a lot of it. I think John Savage played Claude very well. Clearly joining the army meant something to him, even if that reason is never fully verbalized to us. Then comes in Berger that's like "No, we think it's bad so you should too." The things he does under the guise of "having a good time" are all ways to prevent him going off to war. He is essentially forcing his beliefs on him, and Claude never fully gives in. Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I disliked him, but I'm sure the trip out to Nevada wasn't about giving him one last day of fun either. Berger fully wanted him to run away and join them. Berger is a character that thinks he knows what he's doing but his plan to get money fails, his plan to get Claude back (the original at least) fails. I think that's it when he was cut off from his followers and forced to be on his own he doesn't have the tools or the means. He also truly doesn't believe in his ideologies because yes they may throw you in jail but I'm sure there are plenty of things he could have done to not fight and lead to a court martial and not fighting.

[Cameron H. 23786]

5 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I think that's a lot of it. I think John Savage played Claude very well. Clearly joining the army meant something to him, even if that reason is never fully verbalized to us. Then comes in Berger that's like "No, we think it's bad so you should too." The things he does under the guise of "having a good time" are all ways to prevent him going off to war. He is essentially forcing his beliefs on him, and Claude never fully gives in. Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I disliked him, but I'm sure the trip out to Nevada wasn't about giving him one last day of fun either. Berger fully wanted him to run away and join them. Berger is a character that thinks he knows what he's doing but his plan to get money fails, his plan to get Claude back (the original at least) fails. I think that's it when he was cut off from his followers and forced to be on his own he doesn't have the tools or the means. He also truly doesn't believe in his ideologies because yes they may throw you in jail but I'm sure there are plenty of things he could have done to not fight and lead to a court martial and not fighting.

For sure I saw Berger as more of a Mephistopheles type character, attempting to seduce Claude with carnal pleasures disguised as ideology. The ending is essentially the Devil outwitting himself. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

5 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

For sure I saw Berger as more of a Mephistopheles type character, attempting to seduce Claude with carnal pleasures disguised as ideology. The ending is essentially the Devil outwitting himself. 

For sure. If the movie ended any other way I wouldn't have liked it as much for sure. 

The only thing that disappoints me is Hud's former fiancee(?) and child basically joining them but at least at the end he's with his kid and I guess it's a win.

[Cameron H. 23786]

“Sodomy—

Fellatio—

Cunnilingus—

Pederasty—What the fuck?!?

[Cameron H. 23786]

According to IMDB, both Bruce Springsteen and Madonna auditioned for parts. Better movie? 

[Cameron H. 23786]

@grudlian.and @AlmostAGhost, how do you feel about Bob Dylan’s “I Contain Multitudes?”

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I guess another problem I have with getting behind the movie is that... the Vietnam War was objectively horrible, and the only characters who recognized that were these self-serving, myopic free-love-obsessed morons, but the most self-actualized character, Claude, is making a conscious choice to go. It's clear going to Vietnam isn't his first choice of how to spend his youth, but he doesn't go out of his way to avoid it. So if only idiots express any antipathy to war, where does the movie stand? Obviously, the military does not come off great, but we're exposed to its hypocrisy for much less screen time than the band of hippies.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

“Sodomy—

Fellatio—

Cunnilingus—

Pederasty—What the fuck?!?

I literally googled pederasty to make sure it meant what I thought it did after that song. 

34 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

@grudlian.and @AlmostAGhost, how do you feel about Bob Dylan’s “I Contain Multitudes?”

Really dig it! I love when he puts his humor in songs