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EPISODE 113 — Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze: LIVE!

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So I have some questions regarding Keno and pizza delivery that I will hope lead to broader questions regarding the Turtles and their place in the world…

 

So at the beginning of the movie, Keno is jumped by some thugs while on his way to deliver pizzas to April O’Neil. The Turtles step in, save him, and when he is free he discovers that the pizzas in the warmer bag are gone and money has been left to pay for for the pizzas. My question is, and I have never delivered pizzas so forgive me, doesn’t he still need to deliver those pizzas to April? I mean, if I intercept the pizza guy on his way to my neighbor’s house and pay for it, does that mean he no longer has a responsibility to deliver it to its intended destination? But that leads me to my second question…

 

I guess we can assume that Keno is smart enough to put two and two together and he's able to figure out that the Turtles are hiding out at April’s apartment. So what does he do when he walks in and sees Raphael’s toe? He stomps the shit out of it. Now, at this point, Keno’s only interaction with the Turtles is when they saved his douchey little life. He has had no issue with the Turtles--they’ve saved his life, and we can only assume, been tipping him pretty well for all the deliveries. Why wouldn’t he just push back the screen and reveal Raph? Why was his immediate response, “This guy saved me, I should probably break his toe?” You’re in a stranger’s apartment! I don’t care what weird-o pets she might have, you can’t just barge into people’s homes and start attacking things. But, of course, that’s when Splinter shows up and calms everyone down.

 

Cut to: a cross-legged Keno gazing up at Splinter with awe and reverence. And this leads me to my biggest question: Why are the Turtles in hiding again? From April and Casey Jones in the first movie, to Keno, the Doctor, Vanilla Ice and everyone at the club in this one, no one seems to give the slightest shit that these guys exist! It really makes you wonder why Splinter is so adamant that they remain in the shadows… Sure there’s a bit of shock when someone first encounters them, but ultimately everyone just accepts and loves them. Why not just send out a video that says, “Hey, we exist. We’re good people. We’re looking out for you?” Is it possible that Splinter is just projecting his own crippling agoraphobia on his sons and is thus depriving them of rich and fulfilling lives?

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So I have some questions regarding Keno and pizza delivery that I will hope lead to broader questions regarding the Turtles and their place in the world…

 

So at the beginning of the movie, Keno is jumped by some thugs while on his way to deliver pizzas to April O’Neil. The Turtles step in, save him, and when he is free he finds the pizzas in the warmer bag are gone and money to pay for for the pizzas. My question is, and I have never delivered pizzas so forgive me, but doesn’t he still need to deliver those pizzas to April? I mean, if I intercept the pizza guy on his way to my neighbor’s house and pay for it, does that mean he no longer has a responsibility to deliver it to its intended destination? But that leads me to my second question…

 

I guess we can assume that Keno is smart enough to put two and two together and figures out that the Turtles are hiding out at April’s apartment. So what does he do when he walks in and sees Raphael’s toe? He stomps the shit out of it. Now, at this point, Keno’s only interaction with the Turtles is when they saved his douchey little life. He has had no issue with the Turtles--they’ve saved his life, and we can only assume, been tipping him pretty well for all the deliveries. Why wouldn’t he just push back the screen and reveal Raph? Why was his immediate response, “This guy saved me, I should probably break his toe?” You’re in a stranger’s apartment! I don’t care if she has what she has weird-o pets she might have, you can’t just barge into people’s homes and start attacking things. But, of course, that’s when Splinter shows up and calms everyone down.

 

Cut to: a cross-legged Keno gazing up at Splinter with awe and reverence. And this leads me to my biggest question: Why are the Turtles in hiding again? From April and Casey Jones in the first movie, to Keno, the Doctor, Vanilla Ice and everyone at the club in this one, no one seems to give the slightest shit that these guys exist! It really makes you wonder why Splinter is so adamant that they remain in the shadows… Sure there’s a bit of shock when someone first encounters them, but ultimately everyone just accepts and loves them. Why not just send out a video that says, “Hey, we exist. We’re good people. We’re looking out for you?” Is it possible that Splinter is just projecting his own crippling agoraphobia on his sons and is thus depriving them of rich and fulfilling lives?

 

Just to underline this point

 

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So I have some questions regarding Keno and pizza delivery that I will hope lead to broader questions regarding the Turtles and their place in the world…

 

So at the beginning of the movie, Keno is jumped by some thugs while on his way to deliver pizzas to April O’Neil. The Turtles step in, save him, and when he is free he finds the pizzas in the warmer bag are gone and money to pay for for the pizzas. My question is, and I have never delivered pizzas so forgive me, but doesn’t he still need to deliver those pizzas to April? I mean, if I intercept the pizza guy on his way to my neighbor’s house and pay for it, does that mean he no longer has a responsibility to deliver it to its intended destination? But that leads me to my second question…

 

I guess we can assume that Keno is smart enough to put two and two together and figures out that the Turtles are hiding out at April’s apartment. So what does he do when he walks in and sees Raphael’s toe? He stomps the shit out of it. Now, at this point, Keno’s only interaction with the Turtles is when they saved his douchey little life. He has had no issue with the Turtles--they’ve saved his life, and we can only assume, been tipping him pretty well for all the deliveries. Why wouldn’t he just push back the screen and reveal Raph? Why was his immediate response, “This guy saved me, I should probably break his toe?” You’re in a stranger’s apartment! I don’t care if she has what she has weird-o pets she might have, you can’t just barge into people’s homes and start attacking things. But, of course, that’s when Splinter shows up and calms everyone down.

 

Cut to: a cross-legged Keno gazing up at Splinter with awe and reverence. And this leads me to my biggest question: Why are the Turtles in hiding again? From April and Casey Jones in the first movie, to Keno, the Doctor, Vanilla Ice and everyone at the club in this one, no one seems to give the slightest shit that these guys exist! It really makes you wonder why Splinter is so adamant that they remain in the shadows… Sure there’s a bit of shock when someone first encounters them, but ultimately everyone just accepts and loves them. Why not just send out a video that says, “Hey, we exist. We’re good people. We’re looking out for you?” Is it possible that Splinter is just projecting his own crippling agoraphobia on his sons and is thus depriving them of rich and fulfilling lives?

There's a lot to take in here. You would think that he would have eventually shown up later at April's place with pizzas, saying "sorry these are late, someone took yours."

 

I think Keno stepping on the toes is just a continuation of him being kind of a annoying prick, like the fat shaming a not even fat girl. Also, when he shows up, I'm pretty sure that "guy across the hall" is a ruse, right? Just so he had an excuse to show up. For that matter, how the hell did he piece together that the turtles were at April's? Just from the stolen pizza at the beginning? Everyone loves pizza, that doesn't mean anything! Maybe the movie is just fading too much from my memory, was there another scene that would have helped him figure it out?

 

As for them being in hiding, while their few public interactions have gone relatively well, I think Splinter is worried that people in general would not like them, despite the heroics. It's pretty common in all superhero stories, just the fact that they are so different, people won't completely trust them, and could turn on them any time. They could be killed, or taken away and experimented on.

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Cut to: a cross-legged Keno gazing up at Splinter with awe and reverence. And this leads me to my biggest question: Why are the Turtles in hiding again? From April and Casey Jones in the first movie, to Keno, the Doctor, Vanilla Ice and everyone at the club in this one, no one seems to give the slightest shit that these guys exist! It really makes you wonder why Splinter is so adamant that they remain in the shadows… Sure there’s a bit of shock when someone first encounters them, but ultimately everyone just accepts and loves them. Why not just send out a video that says, “Hey, we exist. We’re good people. We’re looking out for you?” Is it possible that Splinter is just projecting his own crippling agoraphobia on his sons and is thus depriving them of rich and fulfilling lives?

I'm not an expert onTMninjas, but ninjas were spies and assassins. I'm guessing that even though there's nothing ninja-like about the turtles' activities, costumes, fighting skills etc., anonymity is the one aspect of ninjas that the writers decide to incorporate.

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This scene kind of freaks me out because Josh Pais is the passenger in the cab and also does the voice of Raphael.

He's also the only voice actor that was also an in-suit performer. The other three in-suit performers had cameos in the first movie, too. Leo and Donny are either Foot members or just random thugs (can't remember which) and Mikey was a pizza delivery guy.

 

Kevin Eastman (co-creator of the Turtles) is also supposed to have a cameo in the first movie, but I can't remember where.

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I had the unfortunate luck of having not one but TWO copies of the TMNT concert VHS because the aunt who gave it to me as a gift forgot she gave it to me the first time. That movie was horrible and I wish they were able to play Splinter's song because it was truly horrible and the Asian voice was even more over the top. There was also a "there going to regret that in hindsight" song where the Turtles sing about talking and walking straight, while backup dancers are dressed as army soldiers, which I think was in response to the don't ask don't tell policy being in the news.

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Thanks guys and gals for all the knowledge that I just gained. I don't feel like i have to watch the special features now. I learned a lot.

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I find the turtles' swole physiques disturbing. Their Mr. Universe musculature puts them firmly in the Uncanny Valley.

 

A brave soul googled "tmnt fanfic" after listening to the podcast and posted a few pics.

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I'm not an expert onTMninjas, but ninjas were spies and assassins. I'm guessing that even though there's nothing ninja-like about the turtles' activities, costumes, fighting skills etc., anonymity is the one aspect of ninjas that the writers decide to incorporate.

 

Hey, Auden! Yeah, I would agree with you from a historical standpoint, and if that were the reason posited in the movie, I would have bought that. The problem is that’s not the reason the movie puts forward. In the movie Splinter says, “Now the outside world beckons your teenage minds, but they can never understand. Their world can never be ours.”

 

My argument is: they seem to be positively drowning in “understanding.” Everyone they meet immediately accepts and loves them. So hiding from the world kind of seems silly, again, as far as the movie is concerned.

 

To sixgunbuddy’s point regarding keeping their identities secret to avoid experimentation, I get that as well, but again, there isn’t any “in universe” evidence to support that this would be an issue. In fact, in David Warner’s character, they have a character in the movie who could directly address this. The ooze that created them is a direct result of experiments his company was conducting, yet he doesn’t ask them for so much as a blood sample? I mean, really? That’s not even invasive. You’d think just out of scientific curiosity he’d ask for that. Then again, the libido of his scientific curiosity seems to be so flaccid that when his company loses a canister full of hazardous goop down the city's sewer he does absolutely nothing! Oh, he knows it fell into the sewer, he tells them as much when he first meets them, yet he didn’t do a damn thing to try and retrieve it. Seriously, that’s taking apathy to a whole new level!

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Hey, Auden! Yeah, I would agree with you from a historical standpoint, and if that were the reason posited in the movie, I would have bought that. The problem is that’s not the reason the movie puts forward. In the movie Splinter says, “Now the outside world beckons your teenage minds, but they can never understand. Their world can never be ours.”

 

My argument is: they seem to be positively drowning in “understanding.” Everyone they meet immediately accepts and loves them. So hiding from the world kind of seems silly, again, as far as the movie is concerned.

 

To sixgunbuddy’s point, regarding keeping their identities, I get that as well, but again, there isn’t any “in universe” evidence to support that this would be an issue. In fact, in David Warner’s character, they have a character in the movie who could directly address this. The ooze that created them is a direct result of experiments his company was conducting, yet he doesn’t ask them for so much as a blood sample? I mean, really? That’s not even invasive. You’d think just out of scientific curiosity he’d ask for that. Then again, the libido of his scientific curiosity seems to be so flaccid that when his company loses a canister full of hazardous goop down the city's sewer he does absolutely nothing! Oh, he knows it fell into the sewer, he tells them as much when he first meets them, yet he didn’t do a damn thing to try and retrieve it. Seriously, that’s taking apathy to a whole new level!

Hi Cameron! Ah, okay, I get your point now. Yeah, it makes no sense then for the turtles to hide.

 

The most alarming thing in the movie is Professor Perry's lackadaisical attitude towards mutagenic irradiated chemical waste.

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This scene kind of freaks me out because Josh Pais is the passenger in the cab and also does the voice of Raphael.

 

'What the hell was that?'

 

'It looked like you in some kind of turtle costume wearing a trenchcoat.'

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I think it's really strange that the turtles all call Keno "kid" even though they themselves are young teenagers (Splinter found the ooze canister 15 years before the start of the second movie). Keno has a job and is old enough to ride a moped so we can assume that he is a wheezy teen too, right?

 

Donatello's 3 fingers are WAY too fat to be typing on that computer when they retrieved the ooze.

 

Freddy, the foot clan member who is following April, smells the giant flower before concluding that they are dandelions. They are CLEARLY dandelions. Are you telling me that people are more familiar with the smell of dandelions than their appearance?

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Freddy, the foot clan member who is following April, smells the giant flower before concluding that they are dandelions. They are CLEARLY dandelions. Are you telling me that people are more familiar with the smell of dandelions than their appearance?

That dandelion part irked me so much that every time I wrote it out here it was just a bunch of keyboard smashes. Who doesn't know what a dandelion looks like!?

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That dandelion part irked me so much that every time I wrote it out here it was just a bunch of keyboard smashes. Who doesn't know what a dandelion looks like!?

 

Oh, the dandelion thing is just stupid. At this point in the movie, the Foot aren't even actively looking for the ooze! The Foot soldier was just there to follow April as a means to get to the Turtles. I mean, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So he gets a job on her crew, sneaks off, finds a largish flower, identifies it by scent, and brings it back to the Shredder, who says, "Then it's time to find out exactly what this ooze can do!" Again, correct me if I missed something, maybe it's in the first film, but is there any reason why the Shredder would make the connection that the ooze is the thing that created the Turtles? It's not like the flowers are anthropomorphized, they're just kind of bigger than normal. How do they know they haven't just got a hold of some really effective fertilizer?

 

They then kidnap the Doctor and have him inject that shit right into two poor, defenseless animals. But again, the Doctor hasn't met the Turtles yet, so how would he know what it would do? And isn't the ooze just a byproduct of whatever they were doing?

 

But wait, maybe he does know what the ooze does....What if, as a part of TRGI's clean up efforts, they have been killing off baby mutant animal-people to cover their tracks...

 

Holy shit. This just got dark...

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I definitely like the first one better now, but I remember liking secret of the ooze over the first when I was a kid. I just remember the part where Splinter gets kidnapped and Raph is in a coma and everyone fleeing to a shitty house in the countryside being a definitive bummer to me as a kid.

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Let's really think about it. Mikey is supposed to be the real horn dog with women, right? Or at least that's the way the kind of portray him in this movie. He flirts with April a lot and it's clear he wants to get up all on that. Michelangelo the artist, however, was definitely the opposite. There are still rumors (and let's be honest it's probably all true) that Michelangelo was gay which explains why his knowledge of the female body was sub par at best. But within those rumors are Michelangelo being rather sexual. So maybe Mikey is still supposed to embody the artist but of course they wouldn't want to have him show attraction towards men. But what if they thought that Mikey was supposed to be the antithesis of Michelangelo? What if all the turtles are supposed to act in ways their counterparts don't?

 

Is it possible that Turtle-Michelangelo was just over compensating to hide his own latent homosexuality? Then the connection with the historical Michelangelo would be much stronger.

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Oh, the dandelion thing is just stupid. At this point in the movie, the Foot aren't actively looking for the ooze, the Foot soldier was just there to tag behind April as a means to get to the Turtles. I mean, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So, he gets a job on her crew, sneaks off, finds a largish flower, identifies it by scent, and brings it back to the Shredder who says, "Then it's time to find out exactly what this ooze can do!" Again, correct me if I missed something, maybe it's in the first film, but is there any reason why the Shredder would connect the ooze as the thing that created the Turtles? It's not like the flowers are anthropomorphized, they're just kind of bigger than normal. How do they know they haven't just got a hold of some really effective fertilizer?

 

They then kidnap the Doctor and have him inject that shit right into two poor, defenseless animals. But again, the Doctor hasn't met the Turtles yet, so how would he know what it would do? And isn't the ooze a byproduct of whatever they were doing?

 

But wait, maybe he does know what the ooze does....What if, as a part of TRGI's clean up efforts, they have been killing off baby mutant animal-people to cover their tracks...

 

Holy shit. This just got dark...

Maybe he wasn't killing the baby mutant animal-people. Maybe after the movie, he started a whole race of them and set himself up as their father after moving to an island where he could live with them. All until David Fucking Thewlis came along and ruined everything...

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Is it possible that Turtle-Michelangelo was just over compensating to hide his own latent homosexuality? Then the connection with the historical Michelangelo would be much stronger.

Boom. We've figured out the secret. Maybe this is why they were so awful at hiding away from Keno when he came to April's apartment because Mikey told them all of his secret attraction and was like hey wait let's all be discovered really easily because this dude is super cute. But it's got me thinking about all of the other turtles personalities and what was shown on screen versus what their historical counterparts were known as.

 

Raph seems to be super moody and likes to do things his way and separated himself from the group unnecessarily in this movie. Historical-Raphael was known as living somewhat of a nomadic lifestyle living all over Italy and was the most teacher-like artist of his time (he had the most pupils in his workshop). It seems that there is a possibility that the creators took these facts about the artist and applied them to the turtle. But in this movie they make him seem more like an asshole who can't work with others rather than just a nomadic leader. I'm guessing he is supposed to be the leader, yes?

 

Leo is the most forgettable in this movie. Or I just completely mixed his character with Donnie. I genuinely have no idea if he ever said anything. Funny considering I would say that Leonardo da Vinci is the most famous out of all these artists. He was a fuckin' genius! If anything Turtle-Leo should have been the one who goes through all of the science and technology like he knows everything about it. Unless he was and I'm confusing him with Donnie....... In that case carry on....

 

Donnie was the one I thought did all of the "smart" stuff in this movie. Smart being in quotations because I'm sure just being smarter than Mikey isn't that hard to overcome. And we already know that Artist-Donatello is a lame choice in reality. I'm thinking he was just picked for name rather than anything else. Because Raphael, Michelangelo, and Leonardo are considered the holy trinity of Renaissance artists, but we have a fourth turtle who gets shafted and left with Donatello. Even I had to look up more information about the man because I only really remember studying his sculptures and nothing about his actual life. I find it funny that he is the only one who really only worked with sculpture and never really painted. Further separating him from the group. Seriously should have just named him Caravaggio. At least that man's work is memorable!

 

Also just to point out that Artist-Michelangelo hated both Raphael and Leonardo so there's that. Art history is fun y'all.

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Boom. We've figured out the secret.

 

Could this be the secret of the ooze?

 

(Ah fuck...I'm sorry, guys. You know I try not to wear blue, but I just couldn't resist.)

 

Art history is fun y'all.

 

Fuck yeah it is!

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I thought I'd just say I remember being a little kid, and my older brother had all these movies on vhs and I remember being horribly facsinated but incredibly terrified of all the creatures. Specifically I remember being truly afraid of Tokka and Rahzar, the turtle and wolf.

 

But mostly I remember being completely confused about every story element of this film. I think this may have been my earliest memory of being so utterly confused by a movie that my actual visual memories are like a fever dream and vision quest. I was feeling lost in a way a child should never experience

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I think it's really strange that the turtles all call Keno "kid" even though they themselves are young teenagers (Splinter found the ooze canister 15 years before the start of the second movie). Keno has a job and is old enough to ride a moped so we can assume that he is a wheezy teen too, right?

 

Donatello's 3 fingers are WAY too fat to be typing on that computer when they retrieved the ooze.

 

Freddy, the foot clan member who is following April, smells the giant flower before concluding that they are dandelions. They are CLEARLY dandelions. Are you telling me that people are more familiar with the smell of dandelions than their appearance?

not to mention that that is a terrible dandelion prop. it looks like a paper towel tube with some strips of paper glued to it

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So I have some questions regarding Keno and pizza delivery that I will hope lead to broader questions regarding the Turtles and their place in the world…

 

So at the beginning of the movie, Keno is jumped by some thugs while on his way to deliver pizzas to April O’Neil. The Turtles step in, save him, and when he is free he discovers that the pizzas in the warmer bag are gone and money has been left to pay for for the pizzas. My question is, and I have never delivered pizzas so forgive me, doesn’t he still need to deliver those pizzas to April? I mean, if I intercept the pizza guy on his way to my neighbor’s house and pay for it, does that mean he no longer has a responsibility to deliver it to its intended destination? But that leads me to my second question…

 

I guess we can assume that Keno is smart enough to put two and two together and he's able to figure out that the Turtles are hiding out at April’s apartment. So what does he do when he walks in and sees Raphael’s toe? He stomps the shit out of it. Now, at this point, Keno’s only interaction with the Turtles is when they saved his douchey little life. He has had no issue with the Turtles--they’ve saved his life, and we can only assume, been tipping him pretty well for all the deliveries. Why wouldn’t he just push back the screen and reveal Raph? Why was his immediate response, “This guy saved me, I should probably break his toe?” You’re in a stranger’s apartment! I don’t care what weird-o pets she might have, you can’t just barge into people’s homes and start attacking things. But, of course, that’s when Splinter shows up and calms everyone down.

 

Cut to: a cross-legged Keno gazing up at Splinter with awe and reverence. And this leads me to my biggest question: Why are the Turtles in hiding again? From April and Casey Jones in the first movie, to Keno, the Doctor, Vanilla Ice and everyone at the club in this one, no one seems to give the slightest shit that these guys exist! It really makes you wonder why Splinter is so adamant that they remain in the shadows… Sure there’s a bit of shock when someone first encounters them, but ultimately everyone just accepts and loves them. Why not just send out a video that says, “Hey, we exist. We’re good people. We’re looking out for you?” Is it possible that Splinter is just projecting his own crippling agoraphobia on his sons and is thus depriving them of rich and fulfilling lives?

 

Those pizzas were being delivered to April's apartment, Mikey said "it's a good thing we saw you coming in here from the roof across the street" I assume the turtles were so starving they were monitoring Keno's progress to make sure we didn't get another "you're two minutes late dude" episode from the first film

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I remember hearing Paul say about one of the movies they did that he saw it as a kid and it was his first introduction to the idea that a movie could be bad. I couldn't really think of what my first "bad movie" was, but now I think TMNT 2 might have been it. I wasn't quite ready to declare that it sucked, but I remember coming away with the distinct impression that I was starting to outgrow this stuff. (I was 11, it took a couple more years)

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Those pizzas were being delivered to April's apartment, Mikey said "it's a good thing we saw you coming in here from the roof across the street" I assume the turtles were so starving they were monitoring Keno's progress to make sure we didn't get another "you're two minutes late dude" episode from the first film

right, but that doesn't connect them to april's apartment or the pizzas, at least from keno's point of view. they're just some guys turtles hanging out on a roof

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