EPISODE 113 — Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze: LIVE!

[MarkPhillips 0]

So as we all know Cory Feldman voiced Donatello in the first film, but was not asked to return for the second film.

 

(check out the clip at around 3:45)

 

Bummer right? This clearly done to reshape Donny as a different character trope though. The makers of the second film reshaped Donatello into the Hollywood character trope of (drum rolllllllllll) the token black friend. But not just any token black friend, but the well educated but still urban black friend.

 

Lets start with the surface level attributes. Donny is a shade of green darker than the rest of the turtles. Some of you will say its just the contrast from his purple mask, but no he is definitely a shade darker than the rest. Just watch the first fight scene in the toy store and the following scene in April's apartment. He. Is. Darker.

 

Next the persona. So Donny is from NYC, is cool and hip, but is into technology and math. This is the very early 90s so this is extreme nerd territory. Hmmm, wasn't there another character like that? YES. Dwayne Wayne from A Different World!

 

Donny knows how to goof around, even in dire situation. Look no further than the clown scene. Donny might well be wearing flip up sun glasses and saying "Hey look at that cutie!" But jump to when they are breaking into TGRI and come across a computer who is the first to jump on, Donny. You'd have the exact same dynamic with Dwayne Wayne, Ron Johnson, and Coach Walter.

 

So there you have it, Donny is Dwayne Wayne. Boom.

 

 

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I'm sorry but the audience was wrong. Cowabunga is originally from Howdy Doody and was ℅-opted by both TMNT and Bart Simpson.

Yep. I had a really long post about this in the minisode thread, so I won't repeat all of it here, but basically, it was from Howdy Doody, but then it was picked up by surfers in the 60s. When making the TMNT cartoon, David Wise saw an image from the 60s of Snoopy riding a surfboard saying "Cowabunga!" and that turned into Mikey's catchphrase. But the audience was right; The Simpsons did use it before TMNT (albeit by only a couple of months). However, it didn't turn into Bart's catchphrase until several seasons in, because initially, "Don't have a cow, man" and "Eat my shorts" were his main catchphrases.

 

Here are my corrections/omissions/random-ass thoughts:

• Why does Keno even go into the mall in the first place? There's literally no reason for him to go in.
  
• What are the pantyhose clad thieves even stealing? It's not like it's electronics or anything. It's just totally random packages.
  
• When we see Shredder after he comes back, one of the first things we see him do is sharpen his helmet. Why? Wouldn't it make way more sense to sharpen, like, the fucking claws on his hand?
  
• When the TGRI people are at the "contaminated area" (where April interviews the scientist dude), two guys exit the roped off area, and the dude that Shredder planted on April's crew walks RIGHT past them as they are walking out. Neither of them says shit to him.
  
• The weapons have been talked about quite a bit, but the one that really baffled me was the fight at the TGRI lab or whatever. Not only does Leo keep his katanas on his back the entire fight that he never uses, but he also inexplicably has two batons that he fights with for the entire scene.
  
• The part with Keno in April's apartment was basically just a shitty version of a similar scene in the first movie where April's boss comes to her apartment, and the Turtles have to hide from him. This scene is baffling all the way around. When Keno walks in, Mikey sighs SUPER audibly. And again, the Turtles are awful ninjas. They can't even hide so that someone can't find them within about 15 seconds. Then when Keno sees them, four human-sized anthropomorphic turtles are totally cool. Splinter on the other hand, causes him to faint.
  
• Keno's reaction shots: remember in the Hercules in New York episode when someone (either Paul or Jason; can't remember which) said they wouldn't have been surprised to see Pretzie rubbing his eyes in disbelief? Keno totally does this exact response in the very first scene. Then in April's apartment, his faint was so overblown and ridiculous.
  
• At one point, April (I think) says something about "slime." And Raph yells, "IT WASN'T SLIME! IT WAS OOZE!" Those are synonyms, you dumb motherfucker.
  
• During Keno's final test to get into the Foot clan, he has to remove all the bells without making a sound. The dude literally tells him, "One sound and you fail." For the next 5 seconds, we just hear loud "whoosh" sounds. Do those not fucking count?
  
• In the episode, they mentioned the Bogart impressions and the fedora. I feel like it's worth pointing out a couple of things with this. First, Mikey did Cagney impressions in the first movie, so I think (like everything else in this movie), they decided to do something similar, but then turn it up to 11. Second, in pretty much every version of the Turtles, they were a trenchcoat with the collar up with a fedora whenever they have to go out in public. I guess they thought this would equal hilarity when combined with a Casablanca line.
  

Also, I almost started cheering in my office when Pally pointed out the ponytail club owner. That is one of my all-time favorite trope from 80s and early 90s movies.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Every time Jason kept saying, "hang on man" I was expecting him to say heynongman but it never happened

This was recorded over a month ago, so Heynongman wasn't a thing yet.

 

So as we all know Cory Feldman voiced Donatello in the first film, but was not asked to return for the second film.

He wasn't asked not to return; he wasn't able to be in the film because he was in rehab.

 

And speaking of voices, Kevin Clash (aka - Elmo) does the horribly racist Splinter voice in both the first and second TMNT movies.

 

I know the guy with the best question in the world was just joking around about the voice of Tokka and Rahzar, but the voice actor there was actually none other than Frank Welker. If you're not familiar with him, I won't even bother trying to tell you where you probably know him from. Go look at his IMDb page. You know him from basically everything.

[jarrycanada 2483]

There is a thread on the forums about which actor is the patron saint of How Did This Get Made. That is, what talented performer does his or her DAMNED BEST to elevate the level of the movie they're in, whether it be a piece of shit or a masterpiece. Example: Dolly Parton being charming and making "Drinkenstein" into a catchy tune in 'Rhinestone.'

 

I hereby nominate David Warner for HDTM sainthood. Warner is the star of everything from TRON, various Star Trek productions, voiceover work innumerable video games and cartoons, to the historic 1978 BBC miniseries "Holocaust."

 

Cowabunga David Warner. Doing the Lord's work:

he's also concentrated evil in Time Bandits.

 

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

think it was jason who mentioned this and it made me laugh so ...

 

[Darbler Cheesegarbler 1110]

The first movie is one of my favorite childhood movies without a doubt, and that love definitely carried over to the sequel. It was kinda bittersweet revisiting TMNT 2 as an adult for the first time because I noticed so many problems and it really ruined the nostalgia for me. On the other hand, it was a very interesting experience, definitely augmented by the podcast, and I'm actually hoping for many more episodes like this (where it's a movie I loved as a kid). I'm now wondering if Ghostbusters 2 and Back to the Future 2 have withstood the test of time, because I know those movies have their fair share of haters. I even enjoyed the sequels to Aladdin and Neverending Story, although in both cases I only liked the 2nd ones and the 3rd ones really sucked. I'm seeing a pattern here: TMNT, BttF, Aladdin and Neverending Story all had really, really shitty 3rd movies, although I'm sure an argument can be made that the 2nd ones were horrible too. I have some weird, pointless thinking to do while I go over some of my other childhood favorites...

 

Also, since they predicted the forums would be lit up with comments about Pally's Asian accent: it was one of my favorite parts of the whole episode, especially when he brought his son into the running joke (also bonus points for the 9/11 jokes). People are offended way too fucking easily these days, like the uproar and outrage about the pachycephalosaurus shortened to "pachy" in Jurassic World, or feminists demanding that people snap their fingers instead of clapping because clapping can trigger anxiety. Must be my white male heteronormative cisgender privilege talking.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I'm now wondering if Ghostbusters 2 and Back to the Future 2 have withstood the test of time, because I know those movies have their fair share of haters.

BTTF2 is still amazing. Ghostbusters 2 is total garbage.

 

Also, since they predicted the forums would be lit up with comments about Pally's Asian accent: it was one of my favorite parts of the whole episode, especially when he brought his son into the running joke (also bonus points for the 9/11 jokes). People are offended way too fucking easily these days, like the uproar and outrage about the pachycephalosaurus shortened to "pachy" in Jurassic World, or feminists demanding that people snap their fingers instead of clapping because clapping can trigger anxiety. Must be my white male heteronormative cisgender privilege talking.

I thought Pally talking about the accent was funny, but not just because it was "edgy" or whatever. The context is what made it great. He was talking about the pretty racist accent that Splinter had for the whole movie. It's on par with Peter Sellers' character in Murder by Death. The whole point of his character was to make fun of the character Charlie Chan (which was usually played by white dudes with horrible accents).

 

I can at least understand why people would find "pachy" offensive in places where "Paki" is a common epithet. It's not common in the US, which is why it was probably ignored by the US-based production. I don't find it offensive, but if I was a person of Pakistani descent who had had that term thrown it me repeatedly, it might rub me the wrong way as well. (But there were far worse things in JW than that term)

[SevenDollarsWorthofHoobastank 226]

 

When I was a kid I loved TMNT and this song infuriated me. Towards the end of the song he calls out Raphael and claims he's the leader of the team. I do believe the TV theme song which predates the movie and and this song says Leonardo is the leader which he clearly is because Raphael is the angst filled loner and angst filled loners don't lead teams.

 

YES! That used to anger me as a kid whenever I listened to it. Though I did love the soundtrack. Just that one part of the song I wasn't a fan of.

[AstronautDown 282]

One of the worst movies, one of the best eps.

[RyanJoseph 2]

Splinter is Japanese because he used to be owned by a Japanese samurai living in New York. His master is killed by shredder, splinter remembers this as he flees into the sewers. He enters the sewers and sees four baby turtles covered in ooze. He crawls over and he himself is covered in the ooze. Because he was an older rat he developed faster then the turtles. He remembers his masters moves and returns to his dead masters apartment to find scrolls on martial arts.

[Maximilian 99]

I think there are a few omissions. The bald dude with the mustache that might be Japanese shouts ninja vanish as the Foot Clan vanishes at the ooze plant.

 

When Donny and the professor get all sciencey, Donny mentions a liquid is 338 degrees Kelvin or in American 42 degrees Fahrenheit

 

"Their belching is retarding the process" or something like that is said by the professor when the dog and snapping turtle are belching after they eat the donuts.

 

There's also that scene where April pours a clear liquid in a small bottle into Donny's coffee as he's talking real estate. Maybe there is something going on between the two... 50 shades of green

 

[OwenCharles 0]

I enjoyed this episode, though I think the third movie TMNT III: Turtles in Time is probably worse. I had two quick points. First, I can't believe you didn't talk about Professor Jordan Perry. I don't have anything in particular to say about him, but he's amazing. Second, I do own the Coming Out of Our Shells album from Pizza Hut. The best song, which Adam might enjoy, is "Skipping Stones" as sung by Splinter.

 

 

Anyway, I hope you will complete the trilogy someday soon.

[Joe Lerini 7329]

 

 

 

 

theres been some mentions of daredevil (example above)

 

 

anyways, heres a few (flimsy) HDTGM connections:,

 

as can be seen in the quote above, TMNT was abit of a parody of other works such as Daredevil

 

and whos making an appearance in the next season of daredevil? .... the punisher

 

punisher: war zone was directed by friend of the show lexi alexander (btw, lexi is directing an episode of arrow soon)

 

lexi was part of the live tour for mortal kombat

 

and speaking of live tours, another friend of the show, micheal ian black played one of the turtles (i think it was raph) on a TMNT promo tour to mexico back in the day (according to the turtles doc, he was one of the team used to promote the tour, but wasnt the turtle in the show)

 

 

sorry about that ... i did say they were flimsy connections. i couldve also said michael ian black was on the anaconda episode, and fellow friend of the show, danny trejo, was in anaconda and starred in bad ass (ep. 39).... but i think i should stop.

 

basically what im saying is, never mind 6 degrees of kevin bacon, HDTGM has taken over

Another loose connection. As mentioned, the Turtles are partially a parody of Daredevil, and season two of the Daredevil Netflix series will feature The Punisher.

 

In the 2004 Thomas Jane Punisher movie, Frank Castle has a big fight with The Russian, played by pro wrestler Kevin Nash. Kevin Nash also portrayed the Super Shredder in Secret of the Ooze.

[DirtFiction 0]

A thought running through my head during the listen to another beat down of my child hood movies. Because the April O' Neil from the first movie (Judith Hoag) was recast with Paige Turco in "secret of the ooze". Can we assume this take place in a different parallel universe (or in the case of part three) a multiverse timeline in which Casey Jones (Elias Koteas) come back with butch hair cut Turco. if this is the case then that is way some of the voices of the turtles sounded different from the first movie. After all have any of YOU been to a different timeline would you sound a bit off then in your universe. Also it would explain why Casey Jones wasn't in the second movie because in this turtle-verse Casey doesn't exist or isn't fighting crime. As would in the third movie where Keno wouldn't exist in the turtles lives but Casey & April (Turco) do. Then again I have to bring up Casey's & April at the end of the first movie we assume they began their relationship happy ever after love, but in this multiverse that relationship never happen nor didn't happen in the third movie.

[JamesHalstead 3]

Correction:

 

The Go New York Go song that Pally was referring to was first recorded in 1993. The Ninja Rap song in all its glory, was recorded in 1991. I own the album. It is amazingly bad. I listen to it regularly...

[HeynongEggnoggMan 4]

Mmmmm, solid episode. This is my first post! Massive, massive fan of HDTGM finally taking the plunge to the forums. Plungers for hot deuces!

 

I have an omission that seemed to be on the tip of Paul's tongue but never materialized -- there was a moment where it felt like he was going to mention and/or discuss something about a song by Splinter in the TMNT "Coming Out of Their Shells Tour" musical. Oh man, how I wished he would. That. Song. Is. Next-level. Bonkers.

 

It's basically Splinter just hanging out and singing a song for like, fucking ten minutes, about skipping stones. After waxing philosophical in his frightening rat outfit and doing vaguely yoga-like poses, the performance vacillates between stage scenes and post-edit video of Splinter picking up and throwing stones. That's the chorus. That's the message. That's the song. Out of nowhere, the entire show takes an intrinsic turn that it is literally boring on a hysterical level. God, those freaking craptastic 80s-esque water sounds.

 

 

My credentials -- unfortunately, like that one really lame dude in the crowd, I also owned this VHS growing up and watched it constantly. I am pretty sure my mom let me buy it from a bargain bin (Zouks translation: "pile of garbage") somewhere. Anyway, I really hope this post doesn't get buried (or maybe/hopefully it has already been mentioned?) so that Paul can unearth this gem in the ways only he can.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

It's close, but the TMNT pizza scenes still might be grosser...

 

[PaulBauer 1]

Two things:

 

#1 I find it very sad that this file was the first to be dedicated to the memory of Jim Henson.

 

#2 Raphael shows that he has excellent ninja-like abilities when he removes all the bells from the dummy without making a sound during Keno's Foot try-outs, but this is the only time we see any of the turtles displaying this kind of ability. Clearly Raphael has issues and secretly has a death and wants to be a martyr which is why he constantly puts himself into dangerous situations without his brothers and then doesn't use his full potential to battle his way out.

[seanotron 2307]

This is one of the things about these movies that always puzzled me. Splinter does not have the capability of speech until he's covered in radioactive slime (per TMNT 1). This happens in New York City, so presumably he should have a New York accent (the Turtles probably should too, and at least in the first movie Raph definitely does, but we'll let that go for the moment). At the very least, he should not have a Japanese accent, right?

 

But then it dawned on me that these movies postulate the idea that rats are naturally hyper-intelligent to begin with. Splinter has clear memories of his master fighting Saki (Shredder) over the woman they were both in love with. It's clear that since he understood the context for their fight, he also understood their conversations, and he even attempts to take revenge after Shredder kills his master by scratching Shredder's face (they even show him mimicking Yoshi's fighting exercises). All of that is pre-ooze, which means in the TMNT movie universe rats are just as intelligent as humans, they just lack the capacity of speech unless you dip them in radioactive ooze.

 

The 80s cartoon sidestepped all of this in a possibly more insane way by making Splinter the mutated form of Hamato Yoshi. The explanation there was he had been in contact with lots of rats in the sewer, so the mutagen turns him into a giant rat. Oh my!

 

RE: Shredder's OTT accent, the guy portraying him in costume is Francois Chau (better known as Dr Chang/Candle/Halliwax from LOST) a Cambodian-Chinese man, while the voice is done by David McCharen (a not even slightly Asian man). It's as if they decided, 'Hey, we don't want to half-ass this racist thing, let's be thorough'.

 

I also have an in-universe theory as to why Casey Jones doesn't appear in this film but later returns in 3. If you remember the end of the last movie, Shredder falls into the garbage truck, which he probably would have survived, but then Casey deliberately turns on the compactor in order to kill him. Even though he somehow didn't manage to kill Shredder, I'm pretty sure Casey is on the lamb because he's wanted for attempted murder. And when you consider the fact that his decision to kill Shredder comes very quickly with almost no consideration, I don't think this was Casey's first murder rodeo. He spent the time between those movies cleaning up any evidence/witnesses he left behind in plans to change his identity. The Turtles should probably be worried.

 

Lastly, there was a sort of 4th movie in the form of the animated TMNT in 2007. It featured Sarah Michelle Gellar, Patrick Stewart and the actual Japanese person Mako as Splinter, in what would turn out to be his final role.

[HotSaucerman 2051]

The voice of Splinter in the 2007 CGI Turtle movie has an even heavier accent than Kevin Clash's Splinter. But that one was voiced by an actual Japanese actor, Mako.

[phil2k 13]

Thinking of how weird it was that the turtles are attracted to human ladies, I found this...

"Do you sometimes wish April were a turtle?" - Oprah Winfrey. Oprah. Winfrey. On Television.

[Darian 19]

 

the birth of the turtles...

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Thinking of how weird it was that the turtles are attracted to human ladies, I found this...

"Do you sometimes wish April were a turtle?" - Oprah Winfrey. Oprah. Winfrey. On Television.

This kid has the right reaction:

 

[Carver 13]

This episode was Adam Pally's most racist performance since his role in Sixteen Candles.

 

[DeathToMikeyBay 130]

Even 11 year old me felt ripped off by how lame the ending was. Whoah, Shredder gets mutated and is now an invincible 12 foot tall armored super man? How will the heroes ever manage to defeat him?

 

By sitting back and watching him tear the dock beams out for no reason causing some bits of wood to fall and him him