Episode 148 - Vampire's Kiss: LIVE!

[Cameron H. 23786]

Ok, much of this movie is in Nic Cage's head. I'm pretty sure the 'so important' missing file/contract is in Cage's head also. Whether he's doing it intentionally or subconsciously just to torture his assistant. That's why it can't be found.

 

While I agree with you that much of it is in his head, she does eventually find it--which leads directly to her rape. I actually think that at some point in the movie he stops going to his psychiatrist altogether, and probably goes off his meds, and the scenes with her are all in his head--especially the scene where he calls her up in the middle of the night. I mean, seriously. Are you telling me this psychiatrist just gives her home number to her patients? Of course not. This is why the psychiatrist's lover is introduced out of nowhere. It's his mind saying, "Everyone is in a wonderful relationship except for me."

[paultab 225]

Guys, there is nothing gradual about his abuse of poor Alva. This happens 24 minutes in: He tells her she has to STAND THERE while he gets chewed out by his client, then (and apologies for the sloppy borders, this was a rush job with Paint):

 

 

He then hangs up and says, "You see that? I couldn't get a WORD IN, he was so mad."

 

...so not only is he overreacting to her not being able to find this file, there is literally NO PRESSURE on this task, so all he's doing is doubling down on her throughout the movie.

[paultab 225]

Also, at the party, he uses his regular teeth. Evidence:

 

 

Four dull teeth marks close together, rather than two narrow clean ones far apart. Further evidence:

 

 

Right after he finishes, he puts his vampire teeth BACK IN.

[paultab 225]

Last but not least, I watched this entire movie with captions on, because I had a sleeping baby and the mix of the music to the dialogue was insane (btw, zero effort at digital restoration on this one, either -- so much film noise that I think they must have just digitized one already-used print that they found in a dusty storage room in the back of a theater), and I think it's safe to assume that whoever wrote the closed captions for this has no familiarity with Nic Cage's work:

 

 

...no, dudes. That is how Nic Cage thinks people laugh.

[JammerLea 2070]

If we accept that this movie is about a man's frustrations about being unable to fulfill his unrealistic fantasies--especially as it pertains to finding a romantic partner--then his treatment of Alva is the inverse of that. He feels powerless and miserable that he can't be with who he wants, so to make himself feel better, he finds a person he thinks he has control over and does the same thing to her. That's why her being the very last person on the office's ladder is so important to him--since rape is rarely about sex and almost always about power. I actually would have liked for her to be the one to kill him in the end since that would show that she wasn't as powerless as he thought. I guess her power comes from the strength and support she gets from her brother..? Which I admit isn't quite as satisfying, but I suppose it's something.

 

So basically, Cage is one giant ball of sexual frustration spinning continuously out of control. I guess I cannot disagree that it can lead to his abuse of Alva. It just seemed too dis-attached from the "vampire" transition story that I didn't view it as related. I honestly thought earlier on that Alva would be the one to die, not some random woman in a club.

 

I'm very conflicted over Alva's brother killing Nic Cage. Throughout the second and third acts as he succumbs more and more to his illness he starts wanting to be killed as a sort of release. Whether it be the metaphoric release from his inner demons and psychosis or release from the grip of the vampire, he wants out. So when he's killed at the end of the film he gets his release. So he basically rapes two women, murders one of them, and gets to die like he wanted. If we were suppose to root for him, is it a positive outcome? Sure he dies, but he gets what he wants and while Alva gets some sort of "justice" via her brother the club victim is left as a cold case. If we weren't suppose to be rooting for him and rather rooting for Alva, is his death a meaningfully outcome to her story when he was begging to die? If he had lived would he have confessed to his therapist like he did in his mind? Was his hallucinatory confession suppose to absolve him to us the viewers?

 

I agree, this was a very hollow feeling death for me as a viewer. I don't believe it's a happy ending for Alva. I doubt she wants her brother to outright kill him, and while there'll be relief that she doesn't have that asshole chasing after her, she seems like someone who'd suffer greatly from grief. In a way, Loew is getting the ending that is best for himself, he won't even have to worry about being convicted of the murder he did commit.

 

Speaking of, I'm amazed that while he's making that huge ruckus in the club, no one thinks anything of the massive amount of blood he has on him as he's being thrown out. There's plenty of witnesses, yet apparently no one is able to connect the blood-covered lunatic to the dead girl in the back?? While he's walking around shouting in broad daylight still covered in blood?? It feels like law enforcement is a myth in that world!

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

I agree, this was a very hollow feeling death for me as a viewer. I don't believe it's a happy ending for Alva. I doubt she wants her brother to outright kill him, and while there'll be relief that she doesn't have that asshole chasing after her, she seems like someone who'd suffer greatly from grief. In a way, Loew is getting the ending that is best for himself, he won't even have to worry about being convicted of the murder he did commit.

 

Speaking of, I'm amazed that while he's making that huge ruckus in the club, no one thinks anything of the massive amount of blood he has on him as he's being thrown out. There's plenty of witnesses, yet apparently no one is able to connect the blood-covered lunatic to the dead girl in the back?? While he's walking around shouting in broad daylight still covered in blood?? It feels like law enforcement is a myth in that world!

 

Yes, I found the post-murder wandering around New York scenes very strange, as he's clearly got a death wish and is hoping to be released from his torment by way of Suicide-by-Vampire-Slayer. He's wielding that piece of wood and offering it to strangers to kill him but can't find any takers. Even if New Yorkers will blithely walk by crazy people on the street, eventually even the most disruptive and blood-drenched will be hauled into some holding cell. This last period is obviously part of his descent in his mental illness to wish for death - even in his fantasy where his therapist introduces him to 'Sharon', his mental image of himself still carries the piece of wood in the psychiatrist's office - yet he never attempts to harm himself, and he is only finished off in his 'death wish' by being stabbed to death by a (justifiably angry) home invader. If Alva's brother hadn't have broken in to his apartment and woken him from his sleep, Loew would have continued the cycle. I agree, I think the point at which Alva's brother straight up murders him is a real problem. Loew gets to die like he wanted to (by stake, in the classic vampire trope of a vampire hunter staking a sleeping ghoul in his sarcophagus) but now this other guy has blood on his hands.

 

Also strange about all this is how we first meet the brother when Alva demands she give him live ammunition to defend herself, meaning that she is prepared to murder Loew for (what until that point) has been systemic abuses of power, only to have him laugh at her and recommend blanks. Yet an hour later he stabs the dude to death without much hesitation. He doesn't fight him or call the cops or talk to him, he just drives a stake through his sternum (a feat of strength in itself).

 

And while we all want to talk about the fact that he's bitten the woman in the nightclub and eaten a cockroach, why is no one talking about his feast of pigeon flesh? Raw, I assume. That can't have been a pleasant meal, yet he still seemingly polishes the whole thing off.

[RyanSz 3140]

But yeah, Cage's character was such a lowlife creep that he was almost impossible to follow. I was like, "Am I supposed to be rooting for this guy? I thought this was supposed to be a comedy like Once Bitten or Rockula."

To me this movie had a long of analogous pieces with American Psycho in concern to a man completely losing his mind over the course of time, to the point where he can't even trust what he's thinking or saying to himself. Yet another movie that was brought up in my mind was Lucky Number Slevin, in that the tone changes SO drastically compared to what I thought it was going to be. While that movie was about a man caught between rival mob bosses and there was some heavy violence in the beginning of the movie, basically the first two acts of the movie are played as a quirky indie rom/com movie with how characters talk to one another and the lackadaisical way Slevin goes about dealing with the current situation that he's in. Yet at the start of the third act it takes such a hard left towards violent mob film that you're going "holy shit I wasn't expecting that, what happened to all the fun word play?" To all extents, Vampire's Kiss looks like an 80s comedy, but then you're watching a very dark psychological horror movie that leaves you speechless by the end credits.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

While I completely support the posters who have expressed dismay about this movie's sexual assault content, I am still puzzled about the nature of this assault. She assumes he will rape her and tells him not to rape her, and while he absolutely attacks, assaults, and violates her (by tearing her shirt open) I got the impression that that was the extent of his physical assault. He says later he raped her and she assumes he did, but was there more that was not shown? I say all this because the Wikipedia plot summary says, in excerpt:

 

... She mistakes the attempt to drink her blood as a rape attempt, causing her to pull out a gun, and Loew begs her to shoot him. Since it is only loaded with blanks, she fires at the floor to scare him off. He eventually overpowers her and mocks her rape-assumption by ripping her shirt open and knocking her down.

[...]

Alva wakes up with her shirt ripped open, possibly thinking she was raped, and eventually tells her brother about the sexual assault, and he goes after Loew to seek revenge. Loew is wandering the streets in a blood-spattered business suit, talking to himself. In a hallucinatory exchange, he tells his therapist that he raped someone and also murdered someone else. Based on a newspaper, the latter appears to be true, as the girl he bit in the club is announced dead. As Loew returns to his now-disastrous apartment (which he'd been using as a sort of vampire cave) Alva points out Loew to her brother, who pursues him inside his home with a tire iron.

 

This lack of clarity is hugely problematic, of course, but I was unclear on the nature of the assault. Did I miss something?

[hypnotizingchickens 1025]

quick question... how/why, the fuck did they get ESG to perform in that bar?

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

While I completely support the posters who have expressed dismay about this movie's sexual assault content, I am still puzzled about the nature of this assault. She assumes he will rape her and tells him not to rape her, and while he absolutely attacks, assaults, and violates her (by tearing her shirt open) I got the impression that that was the extent of his physical assault. He says later he raped her and she assumes he did, but was there more that was not shown? I say all this because the Wikipedia plot summary says, in excerpt:

 

 

 

This lack of clarity is hugely problematic, of course, but I was unclear on the nature of the assault. Did I miss something?[/font][/color]

 

I think it's just not explicit. The fact that he hallucinates Beals at that moment and the fact that he rolls off of her like he got off, to me, implies that she was raped. Also, it goes back to Fister Roboto's initial post regarding vampirism as an analog for sex. Whether or not there was actual penetration of a sexual nature is kind of beside the point. She was 100% terrorized and violated.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

I think it's just not explicit. The fact that he hallucinates Beals at that moment and the fact that he rolls off of her like he got off, to me, implies that she was raped. Also, it goes back to Fister Roboto's initial post regarding vampirism as an analog for sex. Whether or not there was actual penetration of a sexual nature is kind of beside the point. She was 100% terrorized and violated.

 

All good points, and particularly agreed on the latter. I found the storytelling so convoluted: the lead-up to his encounter with Jackie (prior to the bat-attack) is so drawn out (with the kid in the stairwell, taking off socks, undressing so gradually, stumbling together, etc) that when he first connects with Beals they are into the neck-sucking almost instantly. Similarly with Alva: it felt like the director didn't know how much or little to show of each step which muddied everything. Maybe my problem was literalising a lot of what was happening, when so much of this was due to his psychosis. Earlier query post cheerfully retracted.

[ElieB 238]

I'm really upset by how many people took this terrible movie so seriously. I get it, trumpers won and its upsetting and everything is terrible and sensitivity is turned up to 11. I feel bad that some of you took alva's plight to heart but take it easy. This movie was made a generation ago. It was deliberately made as a shocking horror-comedy and it doesn't actually include or depict a rape... (see Cakebug's post above.) He rips her shirt, goes to bite her neck and she faints. He bites/hickey's her neck for another 5 seconds and then tries to kill himself. Far, far worse is shown in film and television frequently. Is he an abusive asshole to Alva all movie long? Yes. But are we supposed to be rooting for him? NO. Cage is the monster and the butt of the joke this entire movie! His decent into madness is what all the humor derives from. He's not a hero to be praised. He's a paragon of narcissism and mania... The creators and actors aren't normalizing abuse and rape. At worst they're poking fun at the mentally challenged but get over it, it was the 80's and he's a fictional character. I'm pretty sure past HDTGM movies have delved into far worse than making fun of a particularly disturbed individual and a particularly hapless, though incompetent, women being abused by her employer. I know, it's sad, she's such a typical victim and she clearly feels so powerless and ashamed. But come on, I refuse to believe that enjoying this movie makes me some kind of rape-apologist.

 

There's so much more to this movie than that... It's surrealist and Cage-insanity at it's peak. Every scene and acting decision not involving Alva is hysterical. All the background details and extras are phenomenal. His whole lifestyle post-insanity is amazing. The couch-coffin? Genius. Catching and eating a pigeon, feathers strewn about the apartment? Love it. Shouting 'I love you' and immediately retching. Made me spit-take. Et Cetera. (I realize this basically reads like a 2nd opinion)

 

I never imagined I'd have to defend this crazy bad movie here. I loved it, and I'll leave you all with a hearty 'Boo-HOOOO'

[JammerLea 2070]

I never imagined I'd have to defend this crazy bad movie here. I loved it, and I'll leave you all with a hearty 'Boo-HOOOO'

 

Nah man, it's a great bad movie, there are so many times I laughed out loud, from his roach-eating (reminding me of when our cats catch and eat a bug), to his Nosferatu-like parade with plastic vampire teeth. That's amazing, and my roommate and I are weighing in on adding it permanently to our bad movie collection.

 

That said, the stuff with Alva still hits a bit close to home, especially being in a living situation similar to hers, and I think that's the difference for me personally. Yeah, I can separate that it's fiction, so I'm not going to be all "omg how dare you like it!" I enjoyed it too. I don't think anyone is saying that one can't enjoy it, but sexual assault is a touchy and sometimes personal subject, so I understand why people are bothered even if the movie vilifies it.

 

 

 

 

My roommate and I were discussing how Cage and the director seem to view the movie as a work of art, so we got the idea that there should be a big art gallery with large, looping projections of some of Cage's better moments from the movie. Including, but not limited to (in no particular order:

 

"Alva. ALVA. ALVAA!" etc

"ABCDEFGHI-" etc

"I'M A VAMPIRE! I'M A VAMPIRE" etc

The roach eating

Serving nobody coffee in bed

 

And so on. Clearly performance art.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Nah man, it's a great bad movie, there are so many times I laughed out loud, from his roach-eating (reminding me of when our cats catch and eat a bug), to his Nosferatu-like parade with plastic vampire teeth. That's amazing, and my roommate and I are weighing in on adding it permanently to our bad movie collection.

 

That said, the stuff with Alva still hits a bit close to home, especially being in a living situation similar to hers, and I think that's the difference for me personally. Yeah, I can separate that it's fiction, so I'm not going to be all "omg how dare you like it!" I enjoyed it too. I don't think anyone is saying that one can't enjoy it, but sexual assault is a touchy and sometimes personal subject, so I understand why people are bothered even if the movie vilifies it.

 

 

 

 

My roommate were discussing how Cage and the director seem to view the movie as a work of art, so we got the idea that there should be a big art gallery with large, looping projections of some of Cage's better moments from the movie. Including, but not limited to (in no particular order:

 

"Alva. ALVA. ALVAA!" etc

"ABCDEFGHI-" etc

"I'M A VAMPIRE! I'M A VAMPIRE" etc

The roach eating

Serving nobody coffee in bed

 

And so on. Clearly performance art.

 

Agreed. I don't think anyone is saying, "You shouldn't like this movie." If you find humor and fun in it, that's totally fine. I think most people, like I said before, liked the movie, they just didn't particularly enjoy some parts of it.

 

My feeling was that this was a piece of art. And as with any piece of art, it can be all things to all people--love it or hate it. Whatever. It doesn't really matter. I just think some people leaned more into the "comedy" of the movie and others were more taken with the "horror" aspects of it. Either way, though, is a completely valid viewing of this movie.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I will admit I did not watch this movie. Had a hard time getting out of bed this week. But having the whole gang back was a nice treat on Friday.

 

I have a confession to make. I've mentioned before that I work in book publishing. Before that, I worked at a bookstore and I *may have* had a Nicholas Cage-esque breakdown about the misshelving of books. See, a customer would order a book and we'd put it behind the counter, alphabetical by last name. Except I kept having trouble FINDING the books. So finally I left a passive aggressive note (though now I wish I had simply played this movie) that explained EXACTLY how the alphabet went. There was a lot of confusion about like does J come before or after N? Isnt Q after T?

 

However once I worked in contracts I had to give up the ghost because those fuckers get misfiled ALL THE TIME. Not just because of alphabet confusion but because some authors have pseudonyms and corporations they go under and then no one knows where the heck they are.

 

Anyway, I have done that. But I can't say I know too many people with the pretentious accent. It's more of a professorial thing in my mind. Of course, George Plimpton was the editor of the Paris Review and his accent was crazy pants.

 

Also, the gang was right that literary agents don't rep short stories. Many if the author is a huge name and was doing a collection of short stories, but for the most part they don't pay enough for the author to want to split it up.

[tomspanks 9039]

I'm really upset by how many people took this terrible movie so seriously. I get it, trumpers won and its upsetting and everything is terrible and sensitivity is turned up to 11. I feel bad that some of you took alva's plight to heart but take it easy.

 

I hated this movie before Trump won. I hated Gamer too. Both were so boring! I kept reaching for my phone to play Candy Crush. Maybe I don't get it?

 

I wish I had some useful C&Os to post, but I've got nothing.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

Anyway, I have done that. But I can't say I know too many people with the pretentious accent. It's more of a professorial thing in my mind. Of course, George Plimpton was the editor of the Paris Review and his accent was crazy pants.

 

Before the name came up on screen, I thought "what's Colin Quinn doing there?"

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but did you post that clip to show us George Plimpton speaking? He doesn't speak at all in that clip...nice b&w photos of him though.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

 

Before the name came up on screen, I thought "what's Colin Quinn doing there?"

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but did you post that clip to show us George Plimpton speaking? He doesn't speak at all in that clip...nice b&w photos of him though.

Wrong link.

[bella_008 188]

So I got this movie confused with Once Bitten and was really excited to watch it and instead I had to sit through this garbage fire nightmare.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I wish I had some useful C&Os to post, but I've got nothing.

 

 

To me, that's the problem with some of these movies. I really like picking apart movies for logical inconsistencies, but as soon as you introduce an unreliable POV character suffering from hallucinations, there's not much you can say. Cage's actions, accents, or mannerisms? Pretty much anything he does or says in this movie can be explained away as, "Well, he's crazy." In a way, it's the same problem I had with Gods of Egypt (which I did not watch all the way through) since it's about gods. Once you introduce the idea of "anything goes" then, to me, it really punches a hole in any argument you can make against it.

 

Even though I'n glad I finally got to see what all the fuss was about, give me a Safe Haven or a Deep Blue Sea any day over Vampire's Kiss.

[Peter Destructo 70]

While photophobia (aversion to light) is a potential rabies symptom, hydrophobia (aversion to water, and drinking) is much more common and diagnostic of rabies. If the film really wanted to make rabies the culprit, we could have been treated to the site of an over acting, unstable, and uncontrollably DROOLING Nic Cage. This might have made his closing blood-beard therapist dialogue that much more entertaining.

[Peter Destructo 70]

 

Pretty much anything he does or says in this movie can be explained away as, "Well, he's crazy."

 

My viewing notes pretty much began and ended with "Crazy Nic Cage." With the marginal scribbles "hostile work environment" and "Crazy Hat Hair/Hair Hat Lady"

[jarrycanada 2483]

it's ok everyone you can stop now, I've figured this out. Peter Loew is not your normal run of the day vampire. he is what they call a full on Soul Sucking Energy Vampire. he doesn't want blood to make him happy he needs to suck the living energy out of his victims to be fully happy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsFB9lkvaTE

 

This is why he feels the need to destroy poor Alva Restrepo life, she thinks she is going to find this heatherton file and make her boss Peter Loew really happy, but she doesn't know that she is on a fools errand. because her soul sucking boss has no file, her boss has created a file in his mind that doesn't really exist and he is really just screwing with her mind to get her to have a full total mental break down so she will give Peter Loew more of her pure Life Energy that he so very much needs. but Peter doesn't understand what he is doing and thinks he is a true blood sucking vampire when he is in fact a soul sucking Vampire. who needs to suck people dry by screwing with there lives.

 

BTW here is the heatherton contract that Peter Loew

.

 

Your all welcome!

[markserletic 24]

Correction/Omission

 

 

 

Of course Cage was not a vampire. His shrink was the vampire. She either changed into or sent a bat to bite him to put him under her mind control in order to do her bidding. What that is, who knows. Vampires are known to have seductive powers which may explain the young hunk boy toy toting the two towels. Perhaps she wanted virgin blood from Alva. As June pointed out, Alva is “virginalized.” So maybe the ending is the shrink cutting off Cage from her grasp because he can’t cut it as a proper servant because he raped her. That would also describe her dismissal of his professed crimes. It's the perfect disguise. Convince others that they are a vampire and if doesn't work out you can always just say that they are clinically insane.

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

i have nothing extra to add about this movie but i can say ive never wanted to buy a dvd just because of the commentary before but after i finish this i am going straight over to amazon because this is nuts.

 

even this 10 minute edit (

) is amazing. things you learn ...

 

- nic explains the voice ... but listening to the director i cant help but feel nic based the voice on the him. but the nuts part is that the director says he didn't notice the accent until the producers flipped out over it! how do you not notice the accent?

 

- nics favourite line

 

- the people dancing outside the hotel .. director "i don't know what this is about ... i don't know what i was doing" .. there must have been a truck full of cocaine on set

 

- nics cat destroyed his hotel room. and nic choreographed all the moves in the alphabet scene in his hotel room with his cat ... no wonder the cat destroyed the room. he was probably breathing in all the cocaine dust ... poor lewis

 

 

and that's just the first 5 minutes of this clip .. there's still another 95 minutes ...i gotta get the dvd