Episode 159 - Sleepwalkers

[BenViolette 33]

I saw this movie when it came out and was a huge Stephen King fan and even I knew it was garbage.

 

BTW that second opinions song was great! I hope they aren't doing a new one each week. Play that one for awhile. I really enjoyed it.

 

I like the new intro also. I think it could have some of the ending cut off for the show. But it's really well done and I know I'll need to listen to it ten times to catch all the references.

 

Great episode! June was amazing with her commitment to being in denial about the incest. and Jason really wanted to hammer it home.

 

Also can't believe Lauren had never been on an episode before. I hope she turns into a repeat guest. She's always great.

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

i was looking for a picture of the cat to try to illustrate how dumb it is that these monsters would be afraid of him and i found one ... look at him .. even with the shotgun in the background he's cute

 

 

but that's not why i ended up posting this image. it's because of where i found this image. it was on a site called:

 

 

yup ... some amazing person out there has created a website dedicated to cats in movies. they list all the movies that have cats in them and the amount of detail given to each movie is nuts. they have movie summaries, production details, pictures of the cats in the movie, detailed descriptions of the cats appearances ... they have links to where you can watch it .. where you can buy the dvd .. they even list current releases that have cats in them, you know, just in case you need a new cat fix

 

sometimes i hate the internet but sometimes i really love it ... http://www.cinemacats.com/

 

you really need to read the Sleepwalkers entry: http://www.cinemacats.com/?p=1102

 

my favourite part .. the "Kitty Carnage Warning!"

[Cameron H. 23786]

Great episode!

 

First of all, I hate to bum out June, but there's no getting around it--Charles and his mother are 100% blood related. If they were only related in a vampiric "one monster can create another monster" type of way, there's no reason that they should be worried about being the last two Sleepwalkers. If she had the ability to turn some random teenager into her monster-son, then there's absolutely no reason why she couldn't just do that again. Further evidence can be found in his short story where Charles writes, "Feeding on virtue. Loving to feed. Feeding to breed" which seems to confirm that Sleepwalkers reproduce sexually. (Also, did he really just read a story about mother-son incest to a classroom full of teenagers? That seems like it would have gotten a little more of a reaction...)

 

Anyway, my theory is, his father died long ago, and because they can't find any other Sleepwalkers, they've turned to incest as a means to perpetuate the species, and after awhile, they just sort of...started to get into it?

 

 

 

 

 

But, speaking of feeding, I don't really get it. Charles and his mother seem to be eating a lot. He eats popcorn at the movies and his mother always seems to be making these elaborate meals for the two of them ("Roast chicken with cranberry dressing. Pumpkin pie for dessert.") Plus, doesn't he eat Mr. Fallows? It seems weird that they can eat regular food and people, but they starve if they don't suck purple sex light out of a virgin's mouth. There's just too much going on with them! Why aren't there any ground rules?

[ElieB 238]

LAUREN LAPKUS?! FINALLY! SO PUMPED TO LISTEN

[NundercoverBrother 174]

Im 10 mins in.

Poor June.

She had to make up a whole other story and reasoning for what she was seeing on the screen other than what it was.

[Cameron H. 23786]

When Tanya drops by Charles' house unexpectedly for their date, why don't they just kill her right then and there? I mean, the movie plays with it a bit with sinister glances and threatening music, but ultimately, what they really seem to want to do is rush her out the door so that she can murdered in a public.

 

Seriously, her coming over like that is best case scenario for them! They steal her sparkle, engage in some revitalizing monster incest, and can still establish an alibi by dropping by her parent's house to "pick her up" for their date. But instead of rejoicing at their good fortune, Charles actually seems nervous that either his mother is going to try something untoward or Tanya will discover their secret. Um, who cares, bro? Isn't the plan to kill her? You are in a private residence with your mom for backup. This could not be going better for you.

 

At first I thought it was because the purple sex power came from a willing virgin, but based on what goes down at the cemetery, that certainly doesn't seem to be the case. And then I thought maybe there was some unexplained rule about it having to be done on holy ground or something, but the girl at the beginning of the movie was found in their house, so that doesn't seem to be the case either. They just seem to be going to the cemetery because he made plans with Tanya to go there and he likes to honor his commitments.

 

I honestly think there was an earlier draft of this movie in which Charles actually is in love with Tanya. There are a couple of times in the movie where this is teased that it might be the case, and it would explain how the villain of the movie is kind of treated like the hero. My guess is that when he attacks and scratches her at the cemetery, she was supposed to turn into a Sleepwalker, too. Once she had accepted this change of life, Charles and Tanya would have teamed up against his mother and the two would have left town to live happily ever after. However, I think they ran into the pretty insurmountable issue of making an incestuous killer/rapist a viable love interest for Tanya. Once they realized they weren't going to be able to effectively pull off that little bit of insanity, they decided to make Charles go straight up Loony Tunes. This would also explain why our main character (for lack of a better word) is essentially out of commission during the final Act of the movie. Once the love story was written out, there was no longer a place for him within the narrative.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Did anyone notice that when homeboy tries to take her life force at the end of the movie, she talks for a second, and the beam shuts off when her mouth closes?

 

Maybe just close your fucking mouth?

[RyanSz 3140]

When Tanya drops by Charles' house unexpectedly for their date, why don't they just kill her right then and there? I mean, the movie plays with it a bit with sinister glances and threatening music, but ultimately, what they really seem to want to do is rush her out the door so that she can murdered in a public.

 

Seriously, her coming over like that is best case scenario for them! They steal her sparkle, engage in some revitalizing monster incest, and can still establish an alibi by dropping by her parent's house to "pick her up" for their date. But instead of rejoicing at their good fortune, Charles actually seems nervous that either his mother is going to try something untoward or Tanya will discover their secret. Um, who cares, bro? Isn't the plan to kill her? You are in a private residence with your mom for backup. This could not be going better for you.

 

I have to wonder if it was a scenario where her lifeforce is more potent and recharges them more if she is really in love with the son. To me it's like how when cooking a lobster, it is better to put a knife through it's head to kill it instantly rather than putting it into boiling water alive, because by doing the latter, the lobster is pumping with adrenaline, or its form of that chemical, and its meat firms up and loses some of its flavor, which doesn't occur if you kill it in one stab. So by taking Tanya on a date, he is in essence seasoning her for the main course.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

I have to wonder if it was a scenario where her lifeforce is more potent and recharges them more if she is really in love with the son. To me it's like how when cooking a lobster, it is better to put a knife through it's head to kill it instantly rather than putting it into boiling water alive, because by doing the latter, the lobster is pumping with adrenaline, or its form of that chemical, and its meat firms up and loses some of its flavor, which doesn't occur if you kill it in one stab. So by taking Tanya on a date, he is in essence seasoning her for the main course.

 

Could be...Maybe romance is like a seasoning? Like, he was dead at the end of the movie but a slow dance was enough to resurrect him...

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Did anyone notice that when homeboy tries to take her life force at the end of the movie, she talks for a second, and the beam shuts off when her mouth closes?

 

Maybe just close your fucking mouth?

Oh look. My Amazon rental still had 14 hours left, so I could make a gif of this:

 

 

 

 

I also made this one because her facial expression makes me laugh so hard:

 

 

 

[The Human Target 34]

Oh my god, June has me in tears.

 

This movie broke her spirit.

 

"They are demons. They are... they are not man, they are not woman."

 

"They're feral... fucking... pieces of energy."

 

"They think it's funny... they think it's fucking FUNNY... that we're in here talking about them as mother/son. They think it's a fucking joke you guys, and you all bought into it!"

 

Amazing.

[kateacola 2440]

 

Maybe just close your fucking mouth?

 

 

and I like that you called him "homeboy" lol

 

[FisterRoboto 7499]

 

I have to wonder if it was a scenario where her lifeforce is more potent and recharges them more if she is really in love with the son. To me it's like how when cooking a lobster, it is better to put a knife through it's head to kill it instantly rather than putting it into boiling water alive, because by doing the latter, the lobster is pumping with adrenaline, or its form of that chemical, and its meat firms up and loses some of its flavor, which doesn't occur if you kill it in one stab. So by taking Tanya on a date, he is in essence seasoning her for the main course.

Okay, now that I'm done fucking around with stupid gifs, I want to dive into this because I had some initial thoughts along the same lines. Why does he need to make her fall in love with him when he can just sneak up on her and either kill her right there or kidnap her and take her back home for his mom to feast?

 

But then I started thinking about it in terms of the vampire narrative. I wrote a kind of lengthy post about the history of the vampire narrative and how it correlates to the hagiographical accounts of virgin saints' lives in the Vampire's Kiss thread. I won't repeat it all here, but basically, the bite is a metaphor for sex. The way women became saints back in the day was basically this:

• A woman is devoutly religious
  
• A wealthy or powerful man tries to make her have sex with him
  
• She resists
  
• He tortures and/or kills her
  
• She maintains her "purity"
  
• She is canonized.
  

 

The vampire narrative adopted this formula, and as I mentioned in the previous thread, Dracula is a great example. Lucy Westenra gives in to the bite, and is thus a fallen woman. Mina Harker resists and is eventually redeemed (she does give in at first, but she basically repents later and then helps them kill Dracula....SPOILER ALERT FOR A 120-YEAR-OLD NOVEL).

 

So, the bite is a physical penetration that is a metaphor for the act of penetrative sex. The acts leading up to the bite are traditionally consensual (remember, it's a test of purity!), even if the bite itself is not.

 

Now, I don't think King was thinking about this tradition or the history of the vampire narrative when he wrote this. More likely, he was following the pattern set out by a hundred plus years of western vampire tradition.

[The Human Target 34]

Jason is right, Beasts of Burden​ is fantastic.

[Mathey 419]

Great ep!

[Cameron H. 23786]

I know there was some talk about Tanya doing some foolish stuff during the movie like checking to see if Charles was okay after knocking him out, but for me, nothing beats this:

 

Tanya, taking a long bath after nearly losing her life essence to the (still on the loose) Andy Gibb looking cat monster, hears a commotion coming from downstairs. A commotion that, oddly enough, sounds remarkably like her father getting clocked upside the head by a glass vase and hurled bodily into an end table. Of course, this is no need for alarm. She continues getting ready for a good night's sleep. She's exhausted, after all, and it has been a long day...

 

She then hears raised voices. One sounds like her mother. She sounds panicked--upset. Moments later, her mother's voice is silenced by the distinct sound of a middle-aged woman being tossed out of a picture window. Curious, Tanya decides to investigate. Sure, this could be the insane, shape shifting monster that tried to kill her a couple of hours ago, but it could just as easily be your normal, everyday glass shattering ruckus. Who's to say? Bottom line: she's no dummy. She calls from the top of the stairs, "Mommy? Daddy?" Nothing. Well, not nothing exactly. I guess six gunshots and the sound of the resulting carnage as bullets rip apart her grandmother's priceless Hummel figurines is something. The point is, the results of her investigation have proven inconclusive. She decides she'll just have to go down there and find what's up with all that racket... Oops! Monster mom.

 

"Next time," she thinks to herself ruefully, "Next time for sure I'll use the ample time allotted to me to escape and get help instead of investigating the suspicious sounds of violence coming from downstairs. You won't fool me twice..."

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

When Tanya drops by Charles' house unexpectedly for their date, why don't they just kill her right then and there? I mean, the movie plays with it a bit with sinister glances and threatening music, but ultimately, what they really seem to want to do is rush her out the door so that she can murdered in a public.

 

Seriously, her coming over like that is best case scenario for them! They steal her sparkle, engage in some revitalizing monster incest, and can still establish an alibi by dropping by her parent's house to "pick her up" for their date. But instead of rejoicing at their good fortune, Charles actually seems nervous that either his mother is going to try something untoward or Tanya will discover their secret. Um, who cares, bro? Isn't the plan to kill her? You are in a private residence with your mom for backup. This could not be going better for you.

 

I honestly think there was an earlier draft of this movie in which Charles actually is in love with Tanya. There are a couple of times in the movie where this is teased that it might be the case, and it would explain how the villain of the movie is kind of treated like the hero. My guess is that when he attacks and scratches her at the cemetery, she was supposed to turn into a Sleepwalker, too. Once she had accepted this change of life, Charles and Tanya would have teamed against his mother and the two would have left town to live happily ever after. However, I think they ran into the pretty insurmountable issue of making an incestuous killer/rapist a viable love interest for Tanya. Once they realized they weren't going to be able to effectively pull off that little bit of insanity, they decided to make Charles go straight up Loony Tunes. This would also explain why our main character (for lack of a better word) is essentially out of commission during the final Act of the movie. Once the love story was written out, there was no longer a place for him within the narrative.

 

Amazing points Cameron!!!

 

I wanted to say that you are probably right in assuming there was an earlier draft where the Charles/Tanya romance was fleshed out better... Because right after the opening credits end we see shirtless Charles carving a "T" on his left tricep with little to no context so we can only guess that at some point there was a "First day of school" scene where he goes to class and the teacher gives his class the written essay assigment which they will also have to bring and read for the next class, and maybe a scene where Charles gets his hands on a yearbook.

 

Also I want to add 2 corrections 1 omission and then tell all of you a little bit about my viewing experience for "Sleepwalkers"

 

1. I think that the people who made this movie tried to convey that Tanya was pure/a virgin because under her yearbook picture it reads "National Merit Schoolar, Science Fair, President Photography Club, Cheer Leader" not to mention she is a self proclaimed "Popcorn Girl" so all of it must mean she is too busy and too nerdy to be sexually active.

 

2. When I saw the movie I got the impression that Charles fell in "LOVE Love" whit Tanya when she liked the story he read to the class

 

Omission: When the BAMF Clovis jumps/breaks in through a glass window in the end to save the day... And I know its possible because it happens I.R.L.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXCsiSfg-ms

Finally... I saw this movie 24 hours ago (with SDH subtitles activated) and for me it had NO suspense, and I can totally see why the gang had a hard time with the plot, but in my mind it was exposition dialoge and after that a scene where we SEE the characters doing what they said they would be doing...

 

A quick example of this in the first few minutes: The opening has a encyclopedia excerpt of the definition of sleep walkers followed by the epic cameo Cop going throug the abandoned house with the dead cats and girl and then cut to the blue Trans Am with yellow lines that was mentioned in the begining we see a mother and son and the mistery set up is blown because we know they escaped L.A., are alive & well and 99.99% responsible for cats & girl deaths and they are Sleepwalkers via those context (Or Text clues like Jason would say) clues so 7 or so minutes and the movie has NO MYSTERY. I am aware that its because they are the main characters in the story and it would be a mistake to cut out the Mark Hamill scene just to confuse us a little longer. Also Charles tells his mom he is going to the movies and he'll try to pick up a nice girl, in next scene he is at the movie theater flirting with Tanya.

 

Thanks for reading all of this...

 

[DeathToMikeyBay 130]

You know, if you tweaked the cats slightly and made them werewolves, this movie would be pretty damn close to Hemlock Glove. The mother/son creature duo especially.

 

I used to think it was silly how high school student characters in 80s movies looked like they were 35, but when was the last time people saw actual 80s high school students?

 

Here's a last day of school video someone shot in 1980.

 

 

These kids all look like they're 28-35! You also see a TON of smoking (high school kids were actually allowed to smoke right outside the entrance back then), which would probably explain it.

 

Plus coke, lots and lots of coke.

[dask360 126]

One of my lingering questions is from the rapid fire transformation freakout scene in the car. The first thing he transforms into appears to be a very young boy. Does this mean the sleepwalkers can transform into kids?

I read this as his inner child responding to it's greatest fear: kitties. I'm sure the last thing he expected to see was a cat, literally, riding shotgun.

 

Good question, but if they could take other forms (age? ethnicity?), shouldn't they have been doing it all the time? Seems like a handy trick for someone constantly on the run.

[dask360 126]

My mother and I used to watch horror films together when I was 8, 9, 10 years old from our local video store and for a few years it was our tradition. She also really loved Stephen King...

I also watched this with my Stephen King loving mother when I was 8. She did not, however, speak a single word to me about that and I assume was just hoping it'd all be over my head. I do remember arguing with her that the cop was Mark Hamill and triumphantly pointing at his name in the credits (as if I didn't know what Luke fucking Skywalker looked like, pft!). I also remember NOT being able to sleep that night and sneaking back to the living room to watch Disney's Pinocchio. I don't know why I chose it, but does fit as a bizarre transformation double feature. Maybe I just wanted to see Figaro?

[ZARATHUSTRA 245]

Come see my new metal band

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

You know what's crazy? After Charles kills Mr. Fallows, he comes home and his mother sees the nasty, open wound on his wrist. Even though she immediately freaks out over it, she doesn't bother to stitch it up until the next day! Literally, just before Tanya shows up for their date. Do you want to know what Charles and his mother did during the interim? Had sex. You know what's even grosser than incest? Incest with a gaping, festering wound gushing blood all over the place.

 

Also, way to notice the stitches on your date's wrist, Tanya. Sure, you notice that the Trans Am is missing but not the fresh, unbandaged injury on his arm? Nice.

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

did someone say crossover

 

[ChunkStyle 1160]

Well, they didn't have the internet back then.

 

I am still not giving him a pass. He can take two seconds to look at a map. If you aren't planning to encounter psychotic English teachers with encyclopedic knowledge of Ohio then you aren't planning for success.

[tomspanks 9039]

Thanks for reading all of this...

 

 

 

 

You know what's crazy? After Charles kills Mr. Fallows, he comes home and his mother sees the nasty, open wound on his wrist. Even though she immediately freaks out over it, she doesn't bother to stitch it up until the next day! Literally, just before Tanya shows up for their date. Do you want to know what Charles and his mother did during the interim? Had sex. You know what's even grosser than incest? Incest with a gaping, festering wound gushing blood all over the place.

 

There's a kink for everything.