Musical Mondays Week 21 Guys and Dolls

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

For some reason, I have very vivid memories of old Peanuts comic strips from the 50s spelling coconut that way semi regularly.

The Internet to the rescue!

[grudlian. 4725]

The Internet to the rescue!

I think it comes up several times in early Peanuts because Charles Schulz disliked "cocoanut" in real life.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I think it comes up several times in early Peanuts because Charles Schulz disliked "cocoanut" in real life.

 

Right. Because it is objectively disgusting (except in Thai food)

[kateacola 2440]

 

Right. Because it is objectively disgusting (except in Thai food)

 

 

 

you trying to start the coconut debate again?

[grudlian. 4725]

I'll accept cocoanut is gross. But I'm team coconut all day.

[tomspanks 9039]

Wondering if anyone caught this. Nathan promises Adelaide that she'll get her house and picket fences in white and green, the Whitney colors. What are Whitney colors? Is he referring to the museum?

[SaraK 1980]

Wondering if anyone caught this. Nathan promises Adelaide that she'll get her house and picket fences in white and green, the Whitney colors. What are Whitney colors? Is he referring to the museum?

 

I thought he was talking about the horse race, but in retrospect I don't know if that makes sense. I don't know if they have colors.

[kateacola 2440]

Wondering if anyone caught this. Nathan promises Adelaide that she'll get her house and picket fences in white and green, the Whitney colors. What are Whitney colors? Is he referring to the museum?

Found this on IMDb (under factual errors):

Just after the sewer crap game, Nathan tells Adelaide that green and white are the Whitney colors. C.V. Whitney colors are light blue with brown cap. John Hay Whitney raced the Greentree Stable's horses under flamingo and pink colors.

 

https://en.wikipedia...derbilt_Whitney

 

So he meant a polo player/ team? or horse racing? I'm not sure.. but he got the colors wrong.

 

EDIT: found this

https://www.lilliputworld.co.uk/products/britains-racing-colours-famous-owners-american-issue-c-v-whitney

[EvRobert 1684]

According to the Tribune (if you listen to We Hate Movies podcast you’ll get this reference)

 

“Just after the sewer crap game, Nathan tells Adelaide that green and white are the Whitney colors. C.V. Whitney colors are light blue with brown cap. John Hay Whitney raced the Greentree Stable's horses under flamingo and pink colors.” C.V. Whitney was a member of the Whitney and Vanderbilt families and was a businessman, film producer (he financed Gone With the Wind) and a breeder of race horses. There seems to be some confusion about what their colors were but it appears to be a reference to a wealthy winning racehorse team.

[SaraK 1980]

Found this on IMDb (under factual errors):

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...derbilt_Whitney

 

So he meant a polo player/ team? or horse racing? I'm not sure.. but he got the colors wrong.

 

EDIT: found this

https://www.lilliput...sue-c-v-whitney

 

The racetrack near me has a lot of green and white which I think is pretty common in racetrack coloring. But I can't seem to find a racetrack named Whitney - just a race at Saratoga called Whitney Stakes. .

 

BTW this is a question that's impossible to google - I keep getting actual people showing up in the search

[EvRobert 1684]

 

The racetrack near me has a lot of green and white which I think is pretty common in racetrack coloring. But I can't seem to find a racetrack named Whitney - just a race at Saratoga called Whitney Stakes. .

 

BTW this is a question that's impossible to google - I keep getting actual people showing up in the search

 

It's not a racetrack, CV Whitney owned race horses...like an obscene amount of them. I believe that either green and white OR light blue and brown (or perhaps both) were his "offical" team colors. Anyone watching the horse races would know that a rider wearing those colors were part of the Whitney team, thus the "Whitney Colors".

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

 

It's not a racetrack, CV Whitney owned race horses...like an obscene amount of them. I believe that either green and white OR light blue and brown (or perhaps both) were his "offical" team colors. Anyone watching the horse races would know that a rider wearing those colors were part of the Whitney team, thus the "Whitney Colors".

I thought the Whitney Colors were red and yellow.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Last week people said they would hold their comments about Lauren Graham until this week. If they have time to post I would love to hear them!

[Cam Bert 8145]

Last week people said they would hold their comments about Lauren Graham until this week. If they have time to post I would love to hear them!

Well two things really. First, as I talked about before the song is question is cut from the movie in place on an another number. I simply don't get that. Other things in the movie were changed to give Sinatra more to sing and reasons like this, it just seems to random to single out this one song as one to change.

 

In addition I think their interpretation of the whole thing is odd. Granted I don't recall the script 100% but in it her dancers are refereed to as "Miss Adelaide and her chicks" or "chickadees" which sets up the number with the dancers being chickens. This means their dress would be big feathers and that would be typical of nightclub acts of the time. Making them chicks also sets up for Adelaide to be the mother hen, again you can imagine the costume which is befitting of the time, or as the farmer. For some reason in the Lauren Graham production they changed it and made them "farmettes". In the movie they change the song but make them cats, so that's similar and also seems a bit more fitting. At that point I'm left asking myself why change it all?

 

Then Adelaide herself comes out and she is dressed in a really goofy farmer outfit with blacked out teeth. It's just so bizarre. The other dancers are already farmers and sexy looking ones at that and you have the star of the show come out dressed in the comedic version of what they others are dressed at. I know why they did it and I'll get to that in a bit but it reads as a comedy number with the blacked out teeth and the cowbell sound and her making a goofy shrug throughout the first half of the song. It's just so over the top. Then it takes a turn into a weird burlesque or strip type number in which she transformers in the middle of it. Now it becomes a regular nightclub like number like it was suppose to be but you lose that connective tissue to "the farm" between her, the song, and the dancers when she's just dressed in a sexy generic outfit. I just find it to be so odd. To me the whole thing just seems like a director thinking to him or herself "What can I do to put my stamp on this" and seems a bit out of place.

 

It's not bad or wrong it's just a different approach. They changed the script but did they need to? What motivated the change, because it is so minor. Those little things I find interesting to think about. It doesn't work fully for me but again maybe I'm just over thinking it.

[tomspanks 9039]

Well two things really. First, as I talked about before the song is question is cut from the movie in place on an another number. I simply don't get that. Other things in the movie were changed to give Sinatra more to sing and reasons like this, it just seems to random to single out this one song as one to change.

 

In addition I think their interpretation of the whole thing is odd. Granted I don't recall the script 100% but in it her dancers are refereed to as "Miss Adelaide and her chicks" or "chickadees" which sets up the number with the dancers being chickens. This means their dress would be big feathers and that would be typical of nightclub acts of the time. Making them chicks also sets up for Adelaide to be the mother hen, again you can imagine the costume which is befitting of the time, or as the farmer. For some reason in the Lauren Graham production they changed it and made them "farmettes". In the movie they change the song but make them cats, so that's similar and also seems a bit more fitting. At that point I'm left asking myself why change it all?

 

Then Adelaide herself comes out and she is dressed in a really goofy farmer outfit with blacked out teeth. It's just so bizarre. The other dancers are already farmers and sexy looking ones at that and you have the star of the show come out dressed in the comedic version of what they others are dressed at. I know why they did it and I'll get to that in a bit but it reads as a comedy number with the blacked out teeth and the cowbell sound and her making a goofy shrug throughout the first half of the song. It's just so over the top. Then it takes a turn into a weird burlesque or strip type number in which she transformers in the middle of it. Now it becomes a regular nightclub like number like it was suppose to be but you lose that connective tissue to "the farm" between her, the song, and the dancers when she's just dressed in a sexy generic outfit. I just find it to be so odd. To me the whole thing just seems like a director thinking to him or herself "What can I do to put my stamp on this" and seems a bit out of place.

 

It's not bad or wrong it's just a different approach. They changed the script but did they need to? What motivated the change, because it is so minor. Those little things I find interesting to think about. It doesn't work fully for me but again maybe I'm just over thinking it.

 

Have you seen the clip of Jane Krakowski (from the West End production with Ewan McGregor too omg)? I think it's a lot better.

[grudlian. 4725]

Last week people said they would hold their comments about Lauren Graham until this week. If they have time to post I would love to hear them!

Before that clip, I was not familiar at all with Guys And Dolls. I thought it was vaguely about 1940s gangsters and dames or something. So, that clip was about a stripping farmer. Not only was I confused about what Guys And Dolls was at a basic level, I didn't sexy farmer's daughter was the right role for Lauren Graham. She was absolutely wonderful and deserves all the success, but it's not on my list of "Things Lauren Graham Should Do Next."

 

So, I start watching the movie and it is what I kind of thought it was originally and that sequence isn't even in the movie. I was able to eventually suss out that it was one of Adelaide's show numbers but I couldn't understand why a song famous enough for me to have heard of was replaced. Cam Bert's notes have only added to my confusion.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

So, I start watching the movie and it is what I kind of thought it was originally and that sequence isn't even in the movie. I was able to eventually suss out that it was one of Adelaide's show numbers but I couldn't understand why a song famous enough for me to have heard of was replaced. Cam Bert's notes have only added to my confusion.

 

It really doesn't make sense. I might have thought it was because some of the sexual double-entendre was too much for 50s movie audiences, but then they replaced it with a cat number called "Pet Me Poppa," so that doesn't wash either.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

 

Have you seen the clip of Jane Krakowski (from the West End production with Ewan McGregor too omg)? I think it's a lot better.

Is this her?

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[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Is this her?

Here's a soundtrack clip

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[tomspanks 9039]

Is this her?

 

Yes it is. I can't help but imagine Jenna Maroney up there.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

 

Yes it is. I can't help but imagine Jenna Maroney up there.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

We've talked about why Adelaide and Sarah agree to get married. I agree that the marriages seem unlikely to succeed. I was thinking this week of the end of His Girl Friday.

 

Cary Grant agrees to get married and Rosalind Russell insists they go to Niagara Falls. While phoning the deputy editor Cary Grant learns there was a mine cave-in in Albany. He gets all jazzed about covering the big story and Rosalind agrees to spend their honeymoon covering a cave-in in Albany. Even when the guy has seemed to change he really hasn't.

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

We've talked about why Adelaide and Sarah agree to get married. I agree that the marriages seem unlikely to succeed. I was thinking this week of the end of His Girl Friday.

 

Cary Grant agrees to get married and Rosalind Russell insists they go to Niagara Falls. While phoning the deputy editor Cary Grant learns there was a mine cave-in in Albany. He gets all jazzed about covering the big story and Rosalind agrees to spend their honeymoon covering a cave-in in Albany. Even when the guy has seemed to change he really hasn't.

 

 

 

But isn’t the point that (deep down inside) she’s a newspaper person, too? I thought, by the end of the movie, she had accepted that she loves being a reporter. So, by going to Albany, they’re actually doing something they both want to do.

 

I watched this for the first time this year, but it’s been a few months. I could be misremembering...

 

[Cam Bert 8145]

Have you seen the clip of Jane Krakowski (from the West End production with Ewan McGregor too omg)? I think it's a lot better.

Just watched the one Cinco posted and it is much better. Still no Rural Juror though.

 

We've talked about why Adelaide and Sarah agree to get married. I agree that the marriages seem unlikely to succeed. I was thinking this week of the end of His Girl Friday.

Well for you that haven't seen the stage production there is a song that takes place between Adelaide and Sarah right after the mission scene and you actually hear their opinion on the matter:

[EvRobert 1684]

Hey gang, sorry I haven't been muchon toward the middle and end of the week. I got sick leading up to a playwrights conference in Kansas City. I get to the conference...writers, open bar, BBQ...

 

Anyways, I LOVE me some Lauren Graham, and I have a weird man crush on Oliver Platt (like at one point I remember arguing on the Aint It Cool "talkbacks" that Platt should be considered for Bilbo Baggins if they ever did The Hobbit). So Platt...Graham...evRoberts man crush in full swing

 

But Cam nailed it. Changing it to the "hillbilly" farmer just takes a "sexy" number and turns it into a screwball number. It's an idea, I'm GUESSING, they thought would play into the kind of screwball stuff Lauren had done on Gilmore and Bad Santa and combining it with her decent voice. It's an idea that looks good on paper but just doesn't quite fly.

 

(for those wondering Craig Bierko [Chet on unReal] and Kate Jennings Grant [Diane Sawyer in Frost/Nixon] played Sky and Sister Sarah)

 

Sometimes actors and directors get like that, they get an idea and it just doesn't work and they refuse to accept it. About 5 years ago, I was doing a production of The Odd Couple and one night one of the Pigeon Sisters decides she needs hillbilly teeth because "British people have bad teeth" and did it without telling anyone. I open the door after the climatic fight with Felix and she's standing there with god damn hillbilly teeth. I don't think I've ever been so legitimately pissed on stage and people could tell (and it kind of spoiled the surprise of our director getting engaged at curtain call) and this actress couldn't figure out why the director and I were mad at her. She thought it was funny. So someone, somewhere thought it would be funny. And it didn't work but it cracked them up to see the stunning Lauren Graham in hillbilly blacked out teeth. (personal note I'm also weirded out by her blonde hair. The 1992 stage version, which is probably the definitive revival version [Nathan Lane, Peter Gallagher, JK Simmons...it's just fantastic)

 

The Bushel and A Peck number is a fun number, it's got energy but it's also weirdly static. It moves but it doesn't. I will say though that the Sit Down You're Rocking The Boat number from this particular revival with Tituss Burgess as Nicely-Nicely does work but at the same time (at least based on the Tonys performance) suffers this same...stiffeness. Ruyon, the author whose works formed the backbone of G&D, had this weird lyrically quality to his stories. They were lowbrow but lyrical and full of tongue twisterness. I think that's why you need a show with some energy, the bodies should almost contort and be alive as much as the words, one reflecting the other. (This is me talking as a director now).

 

FWIW, I am curious to see how Rebel Wilson did as Adelide. I may have to scour YouTube...