Episode 182 - Rock Star: LIVE!

[Cam Bert 8145]

Something that I remembered. In the studio, when Bobby is being let go from the band, and it's revealed that he's gay, Izzy asks "you're gay?" and Bobby says something like "No, I have pierced nipples and a house in Morocco because I'm John Wayne." Does anybody know what this means? He implies that gay men like pierced nipples, fine whatever, but the house in Morocco? I didn't think Morocco was a LGBT-friendly country. And the John Wayne part? Were there rumors that he was gay or maybe he had a house in Morocco? I dunno, this one sentence really stumped me.

In Venture Brothers doesn't Colonel Gentleman live in Morocco? That's the only connection I can think of.

 

As far as John Wayne goes I think the idea is that he's the ideal of straight manly man. So he's basically saying "Do you think I do all these gay things because I'm super straight?"

[Cam Bert 8145]

I remember Timothy Olyphant from way back in Scream 2. Then he popped up in Hitman, Deadwood, and some other things I watched. Never once did I think he was a handsome man. He was just another actor. Then I started watching Justified and I started to develop a huge man crush on him. He was sauve and handsome and just so cool. I don't know if it was him or the character, but ever since I'm a huge Oly-fan-t.

[muttnik 476]

Something that I remembered. In the studio, when Bobby is being let go from the band, and it's revealed that he's gay, Izzy asks "you're gay?" and Bobby says something like "No, I have pierced nipples and a house in Morocco because I'm John Wayne." Does anybody know what this means? He implies that gay men like pierced nipples, fine whatever, but the house in Morocco? I didn't think Morocco was a LGBT-friendly country. And the John Wayne part? Were there rumors that he was gay or maybe he had a house in Morocco? I dunno, this one sentence really stumped me.

From my understanding, for a time back in the day Morocco used to be one of the leisure spots abroad for well-to-do gay men. I took my fingertips over to Google since I am not a gay man and this Slate article about the gay expereince as a resident and tourist popped up. The article states that the "gay paradise" that once was had pretty much vanished well before the 80s, so Bobby wouldn't exactly have been living freely, but perhaps he felt Morocco still offered more privacy than the UK or US, even with the stiffer consequences?

And the John Wayne bit I believe is just because he was, and still is to some, the pinnacle of straight hypermasculinity. (personal note: John Wayne was trash)

I read a lot of AIDS panic in that scene too. Ugh, this movie.

[muttnik 476]

What band do you feel the most confident that you could to replace a member?

 

Gird your loins, Simon Le Bon.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Gird your loins, Simon Le Bon.

 

Fuck. Yeah.

[PollyDarton 1807]

In Venture Brothers doesn't Colonel Gentleman live in Morocco? That's the only connection I can think of.

 

That's funny... I was thinking about how the best Morocco/LGBT lifestyle connection I can make is in Ab Fab when Patsy and Adina go to Morocco and we learn that Patsy got gender reassignment surgery while living there.

 

[PollyDarton 1807]

As someone familiar with Timothy Olyphant from Deadwood, he's definitely better looking in all these gifs than that. It could be the clothing/hairstyle required by a period western isn't that flattering, but I don't think that's it.

I respectfully disagree!

*swoon*

[Geans 193]

I just wanted to drop in to say that when I was in college in 2001, the song that CoffeeHouse Bobo Eddie Vedder Mark Wahlberg sings was a staple of "dudes with guitars" at parties. I already suspected they were lame--now armed with the knowledge that they might have been inspired by this movie, I know it.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I just wanted to drop in to say that when I was in college in 2001, the song that CoffeeHouse Bobo Eddie Vedder Mark Wahlberg sings was a staple of "dudes with guitars" at parties. I already suspected they were lame--now armed with the knowledge that they might have been inspired by this movie, I know it.

 

I suffered so much sympathy embarrassment by that final song. It’s not even the tune so much as the stupid lyrics. I’m so sorry you’ve had to sit through that song more than once in your life.

[Smigg. 509]

I suffered so much sympathy embarrassment by that final song. It’s not even the tune so much as the stupid lyrics. I’m so sorry you’ve had to sit through that song more than once in your life.

 

WWE used that fucking song for Shawn Michaels' retirement

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh10p70jD6c

 

So there has to have been someone from WWE who said "Hey, remember that Mark Wahlberg movie where he joins his favourite band?! Let's use the song at the end of it for one of our greatest ever performers!"

 

WWE put together some incredible highlight packages, and they use this for him. A twenty year career, and they slap him in the face like that.

[Smigg. 509]

In fact, come to think of it, Vince McMahon would absolutely be the kind of guy who would have Rockstar as his favourite movie, there's a story that in the late 90s, he was walking around, pleased as punch, telling everyone who would listen, "I've discovered this new band! They're called AC/DC!"

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Thinking back on this dumb movie I have to say that I still can't actually figure out what the plot is... Is it really just douchebag becomes a bigger douchebag and then suddenly realizes he's a replaceable douchebag so he just decides to stop being a douchebag?

 

Like honestly what's the fuckin' point of this? What's the conflict? Who's the bad guy?

 

Oh oh let me rewrite this dumb piece of shit lol. So our hero played by Marky Mark is actually the one who wants to do his own music and is having a hard time breaking in to the scene because people are so oddly fascinated with "tribute" bands. He has an amazing voice that matches Bobby's so he joins that tribute band in the hopes it will get him discovered. He gets kicked out though because he doesn't follow the songs exactly and wants to put his own spin but in that moment he does get discovered by Steel Dragon themselves. Thus we have the rest of the movie and he's all great and fine up until that moment where he presents Dominic West with original songs and they kick him down. In this version he's not a dbag to everyone around him (except his girlfriend I guess still) and we actually have someone to root for and the ending becomes more meaningful, even more so if someone at the end tells him they want to sign him with his original music.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

I don’t think I have anything to add to this discussion. The movie was more “dumb and boring” than “crazy and insane.”

 

Same! When I saw this movie back in 2001 I thought it was just another mediocre rom-com with a slightly unusual premise. It still plays that way now, only we also add some "yikes" moments for its treatment of gay and trans characters.

 

What band do you feel the most confident that you could to replace a member?

 

I can sing and drum a little.

 

For drumming, any band where you just have to rap out a basic beat and not do anything fancy. AC/DC fits the bill pretty well.

 

For singing, Hootie all the way.

[Smigg. 509]

Thinking back on this dumb movie I have to say that I still can't actually figure out what the plot is... Is it really just douchebag becomes a bigger douchebag and then suddenly realizes he's a replaceable douchebag so he just decides to stop being a douchebag?

 

Like honestly what's the fuckin' point of this? What's the conflict? Who's the bad guy?

 

Oh oh let me rewrite this dumb piece of shit lol. So our hero played by Marky Mark is actually the one who wants to do his own music and is having a hard time breaking in to the scene because people are so oddly fascinated with "tribute" bands. He has an amazing voice that matches Bobby's so he joins that tribute band in the hopes it will get him discovered. He gets kicked out though because he doesn't follow the songs exactly and wants to put his own spin but in that moment he does get discovered by Steel Dragon themselves. Thus we have the rest of the movie and he's all great and fine up until that moment where he presents Dominic West with original songs and they kick him down. In this version he's not a dbag to everyone around him (except his girlfriend I guess still) and we actually have someone to root for and the ending becomes more meaningful, even more so if someone at the end tells him they want to sign him with his original music.

 

That's the long and short of it.

 

When you really look at it, Chris is absolutely a spoilt brat. It's almost like it could be based off an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, when you consider that his parents prefer him over his older, much larger brother, who works as a cop. They're basically the Barones.

 

To be honest, I think they'd have been better making him a more sympathetic version of Jason Newsted from Metallica. I talked earlier about how his story was closer to the movie than Tim Owens, because they could explore the hazing aspect that Jason Newsted had to go through, including having the bass turned down in the mix of the first album he was on (...And Justice For All).

 

So, you could have him all starstruck that he's become a member of his favourite band, but then have him go through things like:

- Singing on the album, but when he hears it, they've fucked with it so it barely sounds like his voice

- The band throwing a party at a hotel bar, and charging it to his hotel room, leaving him with a bar tab in the thousands that he has to pay off, with their rationale being "But you'll earn it back before you know it!"

- The band leaving him stranded when they go onto the tour bus to go to the next venue, and then him having to spend money on a cab to get him there, again being met with "But you'll earn it back before you know it!"

- The band changing their sound, and all his suggestions being roundly ignored, not being allowed any creative input in the group.

- He then starts talking to some friends he's made in other bands, and they talk about doing something together while the band is on hiatus, only to be told "No, you can't do that, this is the only band you're allowed to be a part of, no side projects, solo albums, you're not allowed to do fucking backing vocals for your buddies", only to see his bandmates doing things on the side because it's "their band" after all.

 

Hell, they could then end it like what happened with John Bush and Anthrax but a bit more brutal, they could basically say "Well, reunion tours are VERY lucrative right now, so... we're going back to the classic line up, so you're out of the band".

 

But, you can then make it a happier ending, and then you can have him get his moment of redemption when the old hostilities of the "classic line up" causes it to completly self destruct, having them even fighting on stage, and you see that Chris is making MILLIONS penning pop songs for other artists, because he has years of pent up creativity that means he can be prolific in putting out hit songs, tying up the "But you'll earn it back before you know it" from earlier.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

For signing, Hootie all the way.

 

HOOTIE!!! Fuck yeah!

 

 

America needs them to get back together.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

I guess one slight correction here:

 

I think the members of Steel Dragon aren't kicking out their lead singer because he's gay, as was guessed in the podcast episode. McNulty makes it fairly clear that he's being kicked out for being unreliable: missing gigs and rehearsals. Granted, some of the other members are clearly heard saying some homophobic things, but given that they've been performing together for a while, you have to assume they would have been okay to keep him around if he wasn't missing shows.

 

Of course, that doesn't absolve the movie for all of the weird indicators it uses to create a "gay" character, including being Lord of the Dance for some reason.

[PollyDarton 1807]

 

Oh oh let me rewrite this dumb piece of shit lol. So our hero played by Marky Mark is actually the one who wants to do his own music and is having a hard time breaking in to the scene because people are so oddly fascinated with "tribute" bands. He has an amazing voice that matches Bobby's so he joins that tribute band in the hopes it will get him discovered. He gets kicked out though because he doesn't follow the songs exactly and wants to put his own spin but in that moment he does get discovered by Steel Dragon themselves. Thus we have the rest of the movie and he's all great and fine up until that moment where he presents Dominic West with original songs and they kick him down. In this version he's not a dbag to everyone around him (except his girlfriend I guess still) and we actually have someone to root for and the ending becomes more meaningful, even more so if someone at the end tells him they want to sign him with his original music.

 

I’ve always thought this should be a segment on the show- rewrite a HDTGM movie to be good. Maybe it could even be called “Let me rewrite this dumb piece of shit.” People could write theme songs and maybe it could be a June thing particularly? I dunno but they should get on it.

[Smigg. 509]

Okay, diving back into my notes some more.

 

The name "Izzy" is an odd name to pick, because Izzy Stradlin was around in Guns N Roses, so Steel Dragon, being in the LA glam metal scene, they'd know who he was. In the movie's universe, there's a chance that GnR would have been a support act on some Steel Dragon shows.

 

That's without going into the fact that "Izzy" just makes just makes him sound like a lame Ozzy Osbourne knock off. And I think that's the crux of Chris being in the band, he was a lame knock off. They gave him a name that sounds like somebody elses, he wore his predecessor's clothes, and basically sang karaoke. He was set up to fail.

[Smigg. 509]

And, reaching even further into the notes.

 

The scene where Chris and Emily meet in Seattle, and Chris forgets that he's in Seattle. That can't be attributed directly to Chris getting shitfaced, as performers who are on the road constantly forget where they are.

 

Chris Jericho, Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn talked about it on Jericho's podcast (You can listen to Paul's episode here), when they're going home from a tour, they'd be asked "Where did you come from", they'd say say where they flew in from, then they'd be asked "Did you stay there the entire time", they'd say "No", and when they're asked "Where have you been?" They can't remember.

 

Jericho's even said that he's gone to hotels, and forgotten which room he's in and had to ask at the front desk, and they'll say "You don't remember which room you're in?" and he'll say "This is the fifth hotel I've been in this week". So, even though Chris (Mark Wahlberg, not talking about Jericho here) is a drunken moron in that scene, he's not entirely at fault for forgetting where he was.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

And, reaching even further into the notes.

 

The scene where Chris and Emily meet in Seattle, and Chris forgets that he's in Seattle. That can't be attributed directly to Chris getting shitfaced, as performers who are on the road constantly forget where they are.

 

Chris Jericho, Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn talked about it on Jericho's podcast (You can listen to Paul's episode here), when they're going home from a tour, they'd be asked "Where did you come from", they'd say say where they flew in from, then they'd be asked "Did you stay there the entire time", they'd say "No", and when they're asked "Where have you been?" They can't remember.

 

Jericho's even said that he's gone to hotels, and forgotten which room he's in and had to ask at the front desk, and they'll say "You don't remember which room you're in?" and he'll say "This is the fifth hotel I've been in this week". So, even though Chris (Mark Wahlberg, not talking about Jericho here) is a drunken moron in that scene, he's not entirely at fault for forgetting where he was.

Honestly that whole scene doesn't make a lot of sense anyway cause wasn't the scene directly before it the one where she says she is leaving? So if in one scene she says she's gone and then the next she's driving up to the hotel it's not a great reveal that it's actually been a while and he forgot he was in Seattle.

 

(Unless I'm already starting to block this movie out and she didn't say she was leaving in the scene right before)

[Cameron H. 23786]

Honestly that whole scene doesn't make a lot of sense anyway cause wasn't the scene directly before it the one where she says she is leaving? So if in one scene she says she's gone and then the next she's driving up to the hotel it's not a great reveal that it's actually been a while and he forgot he was in Seattle.

 

(Unless I'm already starting to block this movie out and she didn't say she was leaving in the scene right before)

 

Also, according to her, they had made plans to meet in Seattle. Whether he’s fucked up or jet lagged or whatever, it doesn’t change the fact that he obviously wasn’t looking forward to seeing her. He yells at Mats for not reminding him, but really, if he cared at all, he would have been looking forward to seeing her again.

 

So forgetting what city you’re in due to a grueling schedule, sure. But if you care about something, regardless of whatever else is going on, you make a point to remember and don’t have to rely on your broken-ass road manager to remind you of it.

 

So, no, I don’t give him a pass.

[Smigg. 509]

Also, according to her, they had made plans to meet in Seattle. Whether he’s fucked up or jet lagged or whatever, it doesn’t change the fact that he obviously wasn’t looking forward to seeing her. He yells at Mats for not reminding him, but really, if he cared at all, he would have been looking forward to and anticipating seeing her again.

 

So forgetting what city you’re in due to a grueling schedule, sure. But if you care about something, regardless of whatever else is goin on, you make a point to remember and don’t have to rely on your broken-ass road manager to remind you of it.

 

So, no, I don’t give him a pass.

 

I think that was supposed to establish Steel Dragon as the villains, as it was the drummer saying "You've got to live the life properly, because everyone else wants to do this, and you get to! It's a part of the job"

 

Which flies in the face of when Bobby Beers was kicked out of the band, because he says "You think it's all Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll... Well, the sex? You got that wrong! Drugs?! Never touch them, nobody does a show like me half cut, even at your age! The Rock & Roll? It's in bed by 11 the day of the show!"

 

So, which is it? If he's supposedly missing rehearsals and gigs and generally being a fuck up, then what about the spiel of him never touching drugs, and being in bed at a reasonable time and making sure he was prepared? Was Bobby lying about it? Or was it a case of "I'm sick of these assholes not taking the job seriously, so if they're not going to, I'm not going to" and just fucked them off.

 

But yeah. Chris is still clearly a dick to Emily when she turns up, I can excuse him not remembering he's in Seattle, but the rest of it, that's on him.

[Smigg. 509]

Honestly that whole scene doesn't make a lot of sense anyway cause wasn't the scene directly before it the one where she says she is leaving? So if in one scene she says she's gone and then the next she's driving up to the hotel it's not a great reveal that it's actually been a while and he forgot he was in Seattle.

 

(Unless I'm already starting to block this movie out and she didn't say she was leaving in the scene right before)

 

I think there was a poorly edited montage of him following the drummer's advice and "living the life", in various cities and it ended up in Seattle.

 

But it goes to show you how stupid Chris is, considering the guy telling him to "live the life" is laid on a bed, attached to a drip, because "living the life" has fucked with his health.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

How could you not know that you're in Seattle? It's one thing if you're talking about a someone more generic midwestern city, with shared architecture and landscape. Seattle is not that. There's the sound, mountains everywhere, the freakin' Space Needle! Maybe Chris was actually in Tacoma and the movie just effed the whole thing up.

[Smigg. 509]

Seeing as it's Thursday, and we've pretty much exhausted this movie, the Mini Episode is tomorrow, so enjoy the music of the cast of Rockstar... Mainly Zakk Wylde, because he's fucking awesome.