Musical Mondays Week 35 Evita (1996)

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

Don't cry for me A̶r̶g̶e̶n̶t̶i̶n̶a̶ HDTGM forum, the truth is I never left you..."

 

- E̶v̶i̶t̶a̶ - Max

 

We watched:

 

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I hope y'all find this return post joke at least half as funny as I did when I thought of it and posted it...

 

[SlidePocket 707]

In addition to this being the third Alan Parker feature being talked about here (following "Bugsy Malone" and "Pink Floyd The Wall"), it's also the second Andrew Lloyd Webber adaptation on this forum (the first being "Jesus Christ Superstar"), meaning someone is gotta bring Joel Schumacher's "The Phantom of the Opera" to wrap up the ALW trilogy someday. That said, what moment from this film sticks out the best to you guys?

[Cameron H. 23786]

In addition to this being the third Alan Parker feature being talked about here (following "Bugsy Malone" and "Pink Floyd The Wall"), it's also the second Andrew Lloyd Webber adaptation on this forum (the first being "Jesus Christ Superstar"), meaning someone is gotta bring Joel Schumacher's "The Phantom of the Opera" to wrap up the ALW trilogy someday. That said, what moment from this film sticks out the best to you guys?

 

The fact that the movie spent more time (the first 14 MINUTES) on her corpse than on her life...?

 

All kidding aside, I think I’m starting to get a feel for Andrew Lloyd Webber’s style. It appears to be one or two really catchy songs with a whole ton of filler.

[Cam Bert 8145]

This was written by Dame Sire Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice following their success on Jesus Christ Superstar and that is never more evident than in a few numbers when that rockin' guitar kicks in.

 

The thing that struck me most about the movie is how few parts there are really. You have Evita, Peron, Che, and the guitar guy and the chorus and that's about it.

[Cameron H. 23786]

This was written by Dame Sire Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice following their success on Jesus Christ Superstar and that is never more evident than in a few numbers when that rockin' guitar kicks in.

 

The thing that struck me most about the movie is how few parts there are really. You have Evita, Peron, Che, and the guitar guy and the chorus and that's about it.

 

LOL! Those guitars were bananas!

[Cam Bert 8145]

Now, I've never listened to the original album or Broadway recording, so I have a question for those that have. Is Che suppose to be funny? He's not funny all the time but he has some good solid funny lines here and there. No offensive to Antonio Banderas who was doing his best but he didn't real sell the humor of them. This lead me to wonder if they were suppose to be funny or am I just weird?

[Cameron H. 23786]

Now, I've never listened to the original album or Broadway recording, so I have a question for those that have. Is Che suppose to be funny? He's not funny all the time but he has some good solid funny lines here and there. No offensive to Antonio Banderas who was doing his best but he didn't real sell the humor of them. This lead me to wonder if they were suppose to be funny or am I just weird?

 

I took his tone to be kind of mocking and sardonic so I don't think you're wrong. He's the only one who really seems to see Evita for who she really is - good and bad.

 

My only exposure to Evita prior to this was the Me First and the Gimme Gimmes cover of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina." When it finally came up in the movie I felt like it was too slow. I had to listen to their version.

 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

 

I took his tone to be kind of mocking and sardonic so I don't think you're wrong. He's the only one who really seems to see Evita for who she really is - good and bad.

 

My only exposure to Evita prior to this was the Me First and the Gimme Gimmes cover of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina." When it finally came up in the movie I felt like it was too slow. I had to listen to their version.

Yes, Che is the commentator/audience representative. His whole thing through the show is to inject doses of reality in the fantasy bubble Eva and Juan are trying to build.

 

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[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Patti LuPone hated the role: “ ‘Evita’ was the worst experience of my life,” she said. “I was screaming my way through a part that could only have been written by a man who hates women."

[SlidePocket 707]

Here is Madonna accepting her Golden Globe for the film:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q0Gyyb76Gk

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Yes, Che is the commentator/audience representative. His whole thing through the show is to inject doses of reality in the fantasy bubble Eva and Juan are trying to build.

 

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Juan Peron is in for a nasty shock later in his life...

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Here is Madonna accepting her Golden Globe for the film:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q0Gyyb76Gk

She said "Antonio BandARas". Have I been mispronouncing it all this time?

[Cam Bert 8145]

Yes, Che is the commentator/audience representative. His whole thing through the show is to inject doses of reality in the fantasy bubble Eva and Juan are trying to build.

 

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Wow, so many thoughts on seeing that. First, Bob Gunton? I didn't know he did Broadway. Second, so his name isn't just Che he is Che Guevara? Third, she really is basically screaming a lot of that.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

This might be a better look at Che's character since he's the only singer and it comments on what's really going on.

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[tomspanks 9039]

I liked some of the melodies in the musical, but overall I thought the lyrics were meh. Parts of the movie draaaaaaagged.

 

I thought Madonna was alright. She was beautiful and her singing was ok (I'm pretty sure they lowered the octave at times, most notably in A New Argentina, but whatevs). What I missed most was Madonna's charisma. Where's the sass? I didn't believe that Evita was as power hungry as Che tried to convince us. Madonna's Evita seemed nice. She threw a woman out of bed once, but while in office, it looked like she did a lot for the peasants. Even when she's addressing the people on the balcony, her motions and expressions seemed flat.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Now, I've never listened to the original album or Broadway recording, so I have a question for those that have. Is Che suppose to be funny? He's not funny all the time but he has some good solid funny lines here and there. No offensive to Antonio Banderas who was doing his best but he didn't real sell the humor of them. This lead me to wonder if they were suppose to be funny or am I just weird?

I thought he sold some of the lines pretty well. I really, really liked Banderas in this movie. I mean, first, I was just really surprised he could sing that well. And I appreciated almost everything the movie was doing with his character.

 

My only exposure to Evita prior to this was the Me First and the Gimme Gimmes cover of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina." When it finally came up in the movie I felt like it was too slow. I had to listen to their version.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFmX8wUZRf4

I can't remember how far apart you and I are age-wise, but I was 15 when this movie came out, and I remember this song being EVERYWHERE. Madonna's popularity was definitely waning, but she was still a big enough star that this movie and the song were a big deal.

 

Patti LuPone hated the role: “ ‘Evita’ was the worst experience of my life,” she said. “I was screaming my way through a part that could only have been written by a man who hates women."

That feels super accurate. I haven't seen the stage version, but the movie feels VERY dated in the way that it treats Evita. We're supposed to believe she's this super influential and capable woman, but every five seconds, it has to remind us that she's only where she is because she's banging Jonathan Pryce.

 

ALSO, the award for most WTF line goes to the former Admiral who is escorting Evita at one point when she laments that people are still calling her "a whore." And he says something to the effect of, "They still call me Admiral even though I gave up the sea long ago." I feel like that's this whole movie in a nutshell. It clearly wants to both be in reverence of Evita as a hugely influential political figure while also still being pretty slut-shamey all the way through.

 

My other big issue with the movie (besides the fact that except for Che, all the principal roles in this movie are played by white actors) is the same thing I have with many other biopics. It feels like flipping through the Cliff Notes of someone's life. The pacing is just super fast, and I don't feel that it really gives any character a chance to feel grounded. A scene happens, an indeterminate amount of time passes, and then we're in the next scene. And some movies can make that kind of structure work, but in this case, it just ends up feeling very rushed and never really sells me on the characters or their arcs.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I agree with Fister that this feels very CliffsNotes. Like I never really “got” why she was a big deal other than the fact that they kept telling us she was a big deal. (That is, of course, when Ché wasn’t actively telling us she really wasn’t that big of a deal.)

 

It felt more tabloid-y than anything. Why was she worthy of having her story told? I mean, if in the middle of your biopic I feel like I might need to Wikipedia the subject, you might not be doing something right.

[Cameron H. 23786]

And just so I'm not being a complete Negative Nancy, I will say that I really enjoyed "Another Suitcase Another Hall"

 

 

and "I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You"

 

 

I'm not sure why exactly. I get a strong nostalgia-vibe from them even thought I've never heard them before.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I also really like "Oh What a Circus." I'm especially into how he pronounces "through" and "you" in the part that rawks.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

I'm not sure why exactly. I get a strong nostalgia-vibe from them even thought I've never heard them before.

 

Maybe because ALW...gets inspired by other people's music.

 

"I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You" - it reminds me of something else, it was driving me nuts. Then I figured out it reminds me of the Beatles' Yesterday in one spot ("Now it looks as though they're here to stay").

 

Some people online said that "Another Suitcase Another Hall" is very similar to this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1EOxwnpvk

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

I thought he sold some of the lines pretty well. I really, really liked Banderas in this movie. I mean, first, I was just really surprised he could sing that well. And I appreciated almost everything the movie was doing with his character.

 

I remember seeing this in theaters back in 1996 and thinking Banderas was clearly the standout performance. He's got the right over-the-top theatrical tone you need for this material. Madonna, maybe not so much.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

 

Maybe because ALW...gets inspired by other people's music.

 

"I'd Be Surprisingly Good For You" - it reminds me of something else, it was driving me nuts. Then I figured out it reminds me of the Beatles' Yesterday in one spot ("Now it looks as though they're here to stay").

 

It took me FOREVER to figure out why I felt like I knew this song. And then they play part of the melody a few other times, and it just started making me angrier and angrier.

[tomspanks 9039]

It took me FOREVER to figure out why I felt like I knew this song. And then they play part of the melody a few other times, and it just started making me angrier and angrier.

 

FISTER SMASH!!!

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I have a lot of Antonio Banderas-related thoughts. The first thing is that I read on Wikipedia that Madonna "introduced Banderas to Hollywood." I thought that was weird and there was no attribution at all for that claim, so I did a little googling. Apparently, in the 1991 documentary Madonna: Truth or Dare, she said she had a crush on him:

 

 

Cut to 1996, and he was actually the first actor cast. Madonna ended up writing a long-ass letter to Alan Parker and telling him why she would be the best actress for the role. As her audition, she sent him a copy of one of her videos.

 

And that's absolutely bananas. I've been working on a project recently (that I'll hopefully be able to share with y'all in the next month or so) that's tied to musicals, and one of the people working on it with me is a huge musical theater nerd. She's done a ton of work in the theater and knows her stuff really well. One thing she said recently that really stood out to me is how she hates when movies cast "actors who can sing" instead of singers. She said that unless they are trained correctly, they don't know how to sing in a way that conveys anything real. It lacks the nuance that we get when we hear spoken dialogue. When we watch musicals, we don't always catch all the words being sung, but we absorb so much of the song's meaning from the performance itself.

 

Aaaanyway, I thought about this concept a lot while watching the movie. Madonna's not really an actor as much as she is a personality. She's been in quite a few movies at this point, but they're largely playing versions of that personality (e.g. Desperately Seeking Susan, A League of Their Own, Dick Tracy). She's a talented singer, but she's not a musical theater performer. Like, yeah, she can sing the shit out of "Papa Don't Preach", but she doesn't imbue it with anything that makes you learn more about her than the lyrics suggest. That's not a slam to pop music, and I actually love a lot of Madonna's catalogue, but that kind of depth isn't really why we listen to pop music.

 

So in this case, we have a singer, who...can kind of act? But she's never really been in a role that demanded her to play something other than the archetype she's developed. And I think that's what holds back her performance the most. She's trying her hardest, but she just doesn't give us anything to work with. I want to sympathize with her character, but all of the things that should inform her character are missing from her performance (side note: they're also missing from the script, but that's a whole different topic of conversation).

 

And this makes Banderas stand out even more for me. First, I was just surprised he could sing. But then I was just impressed with everything he was doing on screen.The dude is killing it from his first appearance. He's charming and funny, but there's this rebellious angry streak running just below the surface. His character is just the narrator, but I felt like I had a firmer grasp on him in his first sequence than I got on Eva over the course of 2+ hours.

[SlidePocket 707]

This film is also one of the few hits produced by Cinergi Pictures (along with "Medicine Man", "Tombstone", "Die Hard with a Vengeance" and "Up Close and Personal"), which wasn't able to help the company from dissolving after a string of box office flops ("Renaissance Man", "Color of Night", "Judge Dredd", "The Scarlet Letter", "Nixon", "Shadow Conspiracy", "Deep Rising", "An Alan Smithee Film: Burn Hollywood Burn").