Musical Mondays Week 39 Josie and the Pussycats

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

This reminds me that Eugene Levy being one of the most Canadian people being used to promote American consumerism before he says "God Bless America" is also a moment that still cracks me up.

This was my favorite moment in the movie and something I legitimately loved.

 

I also do think it was cool to see a music group composed of girls or women who actually wrote their own music. This was definitely an era where female musicians, at least in the larger pop culture landscape, were relegated to competing to be the next Brtiney Spears or Christina Aguilera, so we just had a flood of pre-fabricated teen sensations. Seeing the Pussycats do their own thing with their own music and have fun with it was definitely something the industry needed at the time, and still fun to see. Music should be fun and inspiring! We should enjoy making it, not just unwrapping it! YAY!

[SaraK 1980]

 

She played a FANTASTIC villain in one of my favorite movies of all time.

 

 

I was referring to Rachel Leigh Cook, but I agree that Parker was an amazing villain there.

 

 

Also random casting trivia from Wikipedia but I read this and thought how crazy would those alternate Vals had been?? I like Rosario here, I think she was a good choice.

Beyoncé, Aaliyah and Lisa "Left Eye" Lopes auditioned for the role of Valerie Brown.^[4][5] Elfont said that they wanted someone who knew how to do comedy, but Beyoncé was "quiet and shy" and Aaliyah was "serious and thoughtful".^[5] Lisa was tested twice, but the unknown actress Rosario Dawson was chosen for her ironic spirit.^[5]

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

Also random casting trivia from Wikipedia but I read this and thought how crazy would those alternate Vals had been?? I like Rosario here, I think she was a good choice.

 

I agree that stunt-casting might have been fun, but Rosario nailed what little she was given. It would have been a completely different movie (maybe for the better?) with Left Eye in there. How would that have matched up with all the silliness?

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Okay, but I don't think that Josie and the Pussycats are at all trying to pretend to be edgy. Their songs are all about love and having boyfriends that are too disinterested in the relationships they're currently in. I will give you that their sound is definitely more in the vibe of the last set of musicians that you mentioned, but I'll say again that in 2001 that's what we were at in terms of sound. In the story I'm not even really sure if we're supposed to consider them "edgy." The girl in the music store that is a "free thinker" is what I think we're supposed to consider edgy but J&TP seem just more like they like what they like and they write songs about what they know. I mean we see them all working like 3 jobs and volunteering at food banks and animal shelters. That's not exactly the punk life lol.

 

Maybe “edgy” was the wrong word. Maybe “more polished” or “glossy.”

 

All of the songs I posted (save maybe “Basket Case”) are all about the the same things you’re saying Josie is singing about. I think there’s a difference between trying to write a good song and a “hit” song though. The minute she sings that she’s a “punk rock beauty queen” or whatever, it sets my teeth on edge.

 

Also, I know you’re joking, but volunteering at a soup kitchen, working hard, etc. can absolutely still be punk rock. I was in a punk band and played for my church’s praise band. Punk, for me, is just expressing yourself honestly and accepting people for their differences.

 

 

[PollyDarton 1807]

This movie acted like fashion trends are based solely around monochromatic color schemes - They didn't talked about their wide leg jeans, platform flipflops, backless tanktops, or elastic waste disco pants. No, they were like "blue... blue is in now... Blue is the new Pink (or whatever.)

 

Related or not - here is an add for Target where everything - EVERYTHING - is orange:

 

And here's one where everything is Blue:

 

[PollyDarton 1807]

I was referring to Rachel Leigh Cook, but I agree that Parker was an amazing villain there.

 

Sorry! I read it too fast.

It would have been cool to see Rachael Leigh Cook do more Villain roles. She just comes across as so sweet. I think that's why the "This is your brain on drugs" PSA was so disarming.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I agree that stunt-casting might have been fun, but Rosario nailed what little she was given. It would have been a completely different movie (maybe for the better?) with Left Eye in there. How would that have matched up with all the silliness?

 

See, for me, Rosario and Rachel were too similar. At least Tara was the silly, hippie. What sets Josie and Val apart?

 

I don’t know, I think I would have just liked to see everyone have more fun. Like, even if you’re not successful, being in a band should be fun. I would have loved to see them rock out at the bowling alley instead of watching them complain about how no one was watching and how little they got paid. They seem more focused on being famous than on the music, and then when they actually do become famous, they don’t really enjoy that either.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Maybe “edgy” was the wrong word. Maybe “more polished” or “glossy.”

 

All of the songs I posted (save maybe “Basket Case”) are all about the the same things you’re saying Josie is singing about. I think there’s a difference between trying to write a good song and a “hit” song though. The minute she sings that she’s a “punk rock beauty queen” or whatever, it sets my teeth on edge.

 

Also, I know you’re joking, but volunteering at a soup kitchen, working hard, etc. can absolutely still be punk rock. I was in a punk band and played for my church’s praise band. Punk, for me, is just expressing yourself honestly and accepting people for their differences.

Punk Rock Prom Queen. Gosh Cameron at least get it right

 

But yes I understand what you mean, but I'll even throw out a band I loved back then called Something Corporate that wrote a song called "Punk Rock Princess" that is along this same genre that pisses off a lot of people who consider themselves "true punk." Which is why I threw out that last statement. Yes, half in jest because I also think the punk vibe is doing what you want rather than what society dictates, but when you talk to people from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, that were in the punk scene they look at things like that and they sneer. Even still I'll hear shit about what a punk can and can't do. So while you and I may think this could be considered a punk life, the punk scene would say otherwise, which is why then this all gets classified as pop-punk because these people just don't have that grit. That's what I meant by that.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX0uEs3I6TA

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

Also, I know you’re joking, but volunteering at a soup kitchen, working hard, etc. can absolutely still be punk rock. I was in a punk band and played for my church’s praise band. Punk, for me, is just expressing yourself honestly and accepting people for their differences.

 

My experience is that there seems to be a pretty wide disagreement among punk rockers as to what is actually "punk."

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Punk Rock Prom Queen. Gosh Cameron at least get it right

 

But yes I understand what you mean, but I'll even throw out a band I loved back then called Something Corporate that wrote a song called "Punk Rock Princess" that is along this same genre that pisses off a lot of people who consider themselves "true punk." Which is why I threw out that last statement. Yes, half in jest because I also think the punk vibe is doing what you want rather than what society dictates, but when you talk to people from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, that were in the punk scene they look at things like that and they sneer. Even still I'll hear shit about what a punk can and can't do. So while you and I may think this could be considered a punk life, the punk scene would say otherwise, which is why then this all gets classified as pop-punk because these people just don't have that grit. That's what I meant by that.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX0uEs3I6TA

The guy on the right got the "Buy Orange" message.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

What does "six small hours and five long days" mean?

[grudlian. 4725]

 

My experience is that there seems to be a pretty wide disagreement among punk rockers as to what is actually "punk."

So much this. Punk has such a wide variety of sounds.

 

I think everyone would consider The Clash a punk band. But if you played the second half of Combat Rock to someone who had never heard it, would anyone call that "punk"? Overpowered By Punk, Ghetto Defendant don't sound like anyone's typical definition of punk music. So, I dont know. I guess, yes, The Pussycats are super polished and clean sounding but ehhhh if Paramore is considered pop punk, why not The Pussycats?

[SaraK 1980]

What does "six small hours and five long days" mean?

 

It took her five and a half days to unravel his lies. I assume the long days included sleepless nights, where as the half day felt short.

 

And then those three small words came way too late.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

So much this. Punk has such a wide variety of sounds.

 

I think everyone would consider The Clash a punk band. But if you played the second half of Combat Rock to someone who had never heard it, would anyone call that "punk"? Overpowered By Punk, Ghetto Defendant don't sound like anyone's typical definition of punk music. So, I dont know. I guess, yes, The Pussycats are super polished and clean sounding but ehhhh if Paramore is considered pop punk, why not The Pussycats?

 

Oh, they are undoubtedly pop-punk. I was saying there are different tiers of pop-punk. The music they’re peddling is less about a philosophy and more about being famous. I’m less interested in the glossy, over-produced version that Josie represents.

 

And, yes, like all subcultures, people define their “thing” in different ways. It’s like Christianity. It’s one religion with different denominations. My personal experience was one of acceptance and encouragement, though.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

To me, punk is going to a show in Atlantic City to see a band you've only heard of because someone let you borrow their ep one time play on a five-band bill with four bands you've never heard of, blacking out before that band even plays, then waking up in an alley in Hoboken three days later between a dumpster and a raccoon eating a week-old sack of expired hamburger meat.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Oh, they are undoubtedly pop-punk. I was saying there are different tiers of pop-punk. The music they’re peddling is less about a philosophy and more about being famous. I’m less interested in the glossy, over-produced version that Josie represents.

But that's your interpretation of these bands. I'm sure bands in all genres only care about being famous, but you can't lump every band in this form of pop-punk into that category just because it's not a type of sound you're interested in.

 

I mean J&TP's sound literally was only created to ride a current wave of popular music that's for sure, but I think to say that then everyone in that genre in real life is only doing the same undermines people's genuine hard work.

 

What's funny is I don't even like the bands that you listed but I definitely was into that kind of music growing up so despite that fact that I honestly can't stand a single thing New Found Glory puts out I still remember being very very into that style of music in middle school.

 

EDIT: I looked up a lot of bands that were considered pop-punk back then and Fall Out Boy is another example of the kind of pop-punk I never got into but then Panic! At the Disco came out in 04 and I was all aboard that. Another interesting thing is that Paramore was the only band with even one female member listed and even they didn't start until 2004, so J&TP really was capitalizing on a market in a genre that hadn't been filled yet.

[grudlian. 4725]

To me, punk is going to a show in Atlantic City to see a band you've only heard of because someone let you borrow their ep one time play on a five-band bill with four bands you've never heard of, blacking out before that band even plays, then waking up in an alley in Hoboken three days later between a dumpster and a raccoon eating a week-old sack of expired hamburger meat.

To me, punk is staying in, having a glass of white zin, and binging the remix of Arrested Development season 4.

 

Punk had a lot of variety.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

To me, punk is going to a show in Atlantic City to see a band you've only heard of because someone let you borrow their ep one time play on a five-band bill with four bands you've never heard of, blacking out before that band even plays, then waking up in an alley in Hoboken three days later between a dumpster and a raccoon eating a week-old sack of expired hamburger meat.

To me, punk is being 13 in the middle of a mosh pit for the first time and going NOPE and going right back to your assigned seat.

[Cameron H. 23786]

But that's your interpretation of these bands. I'm sure bands in all genres only care about being famous, but you can't lump every band in this form of pop-punk into that category just because it's not a type of sound you're interested in.

 

I wasn’t being clear. I have no idea why NFG got together. Maybe they’re super deep artists. I have no idea. I meant, J&TP only care about being famous. They accept a record deal from someone who hasn’t even heard their freaking music. That’s not creating something because you have something to say; that’s creating something to be used as a commodity.

 

Contrast this with, say, Jimmy in That Thing You Do. Nothing is good enough for him because he feels like he’s creating “Art.” Yes, he wants to be successful, but on his terms. And he ends up throwing everything away because they won’t let him do things his way. He might be a dick, but at least he was able to write that hit song “Alone With My Principles.”

 

And, yes, I would say everything you all described is “punk.”

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I wasn’t being clear. I have no idea why NFG got together. Maybe they’re super deep artists. I have no idea. I meant, J&TP only care about being famous. They accept a record deal from someone who hasn’t even heard their freaking music. That’s not creating something because you have something to say; that’s creating something to be used as a commodity.

 

Contrast this with, say, Jimmy in That Thing You Do. Nothing is good enough for him because he feels like he’s creating “Art.” Yes, he wants to be successful, but on his terms. And he ends up throwing everything away because they won’t let him do things his way. He might be a dick, but at least he was able to write that hit song “Alone With My Principles.”

 

And, yes, I would say everything you all described is “punk.”

Okay I see now what you mean, and I absolutely don't disagree with you, but I also don't know if I totally agree as well.

 

The reasoning for me is basically based on being an artist myself. I want to be able to photograph the stuff on my own terms and do what I want to do, but I also need to be able to pay my rent. So I take wedding gigs despite not actually liking the act of doing weddings. I think I've mentioned before that my ultimate dream is to walk by the magazine stands at Barnes & Noble or [Enter local grocery chain here] and see my photo on the cover of Vogue or Vanity Fair. That could be interpreted to some as fame chasing, but really that's just the ultimate publication for someone in fashion/portrait photography. That's the big leagues, and when I get there I know I'll feel accomplished. I imagine for these girls that they feel the same about getting a record deal. As far as we know within the story they've worked there asses off and played shitty gigs for 5 bucks but it isn't doing them any favors. You can love what you until you're red in the face but if there's no audience then you'll never get out of where you're at. Another analogy I'll use is instagram. I fucking hate tagging my photos, I think it's cheap and nothing but clutter, but I also recognize that the difference in getting 10 likes from your followers and 75 likes and getting featured on a business page is having to resort to that kind of cheapness. And unfortunately in the photography business right now, likes mean everything.

 

As far as signing the deal before they've been heard, Josie does question it before they actually sign, but Alan Cumming in all of his manipulative swarmy brilliance basically gives them this idea that it's this or nothing. This is what they had been working for their whole time together and so they were convinced this was there one shot so they took it. I don't fault them for that at all! In fact I fault them more for having an incredibly shitty manager that didn't sit down and read the contract before having them sign it.

 

Maybe they’re super deep artists

Don't worry, they're not.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Oh here's the biggest question I have about the movie: What was the point of ostracizing Val from the get go? She was totally on board with the whole thing until Wyatt started making her feel like she wasn't welcome. It was only then that she started asking questions and then they made the decision to get rid of the two of them. But if they had just made it about all three of them then I bet none of them would have questioned anything and they would have never found out about Fiona's plan.

[grudlian. 4725]

I dont think we see enough of The Pussycats to say they are writing songs just for fame. I don't think they are the next Bob Dylan or anything but they are shown wanting some integrity throughout.

 

Look at a lot of real world bands. The Beatles wrote a lot of love songs that weren't based on their own lives. We all recognize their greatness. I know the expectations of bands in the 1960s and a punk band are different.

 

By the time we meet the band, the songs are written. Any artist who has struggled and made a decent body of work might simply want the recognition (or money) for their previous hard work. Dying penniless only *sounds* cool and romantic.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

To me, punk is going to a show in Atlantic City to see a band you've only heard of because someone let you borrow their ep one time play on a five-band bill with four bands you've never heard of, blacking out before that band even plays, then waking up in an alley in Hoboken three days later between a dumpster and a raccoon eating a week-old sack of expired hamburger meat.

That's...awfully specific. Personal experience?

[SaraK 1980]

Oh here's the biggest question I have about the movie: What was the point of ostracizing Val from the get go? She was totally on board with the whole thing until Wyatt started making her feel like she wasn't welcome. It was only then that she started asking questions and then they made the decision to get rid of the two of them. But if they had just made it about all three of them then I bet none of them would have questioned anything and they would have never found out about Fiona's plan.

 

I wonder if Wyatt was just trying to keep Val under his thumb. By making Josie the face of the band, he knew she'd be upset and basically tried to gaslight her into feeling 'grateful' enough to stay. Josie was blinded by being the representative of the band and Mel is just happy to be wherever her friends are, so Val is the one they have to keep on a hook.

Seems like a weird play because like you said the whole scheme would have stayed under wraps if they had remained The Pussycats. It barely came to light as it is! If Mel and Val had done a real TRL, Josie wouldn't have looked closer into the music.

[Cameron H. 23786]

OMG, guys! I'm not suggesting that they should "die penniless" or that you don't have to pay your dues to get ahead. It's one thing if you get into, say, photography because you love photography. If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason not to try to achieve as much as possible and get all the renown that comes with that. However, it's an entirely different thing to get into photography if your goal is to be a *famous* photographer. So while we can say, "For all we know...," in the movie, I never actually saw them want anything other than be famous.

 

Let's put it this way. Taylor, what if someone tomorrow said that they want you to shoot the cover for Vogue, but they had never seen your portfolio? All they ever saw was you walking across the street with a camera. And when you are like "you should probably see my work," they're like, "No, that isn't necessary" Even if they are on the level, if it's not based on your own talent as a photographer, what's even the point of achieving your dream? Sure, you can tell yourself that "you deserve it," but if you accept that offer under those terms, you're implicitly stating that being famous is more important than being a serious photographer, or in the case of J&TP, musicians.