Musical Mondays Week 45 Oliver & Company

[Cameron H. 23786]

Wow, those are some horny dogs...

We watched:

 

[grudlian. 4725]

I really miss this kind of animation. Not just 2D hand drawn but the fluidity and style. It looks great.

I mentioned this on letterboxd but I'm not entirely sure why people talk so much about Billy Joel in this movie. He's perfectly adequate which isn't a ringing endorsement but the vast majority of popular animated movies use celebrity voices that are equal to Billy Joel's performance here without getting the same level of criticism. I'd certainly complain about Cheech Marin more than Billy Joel. I just don't get it as a common criticism. I wouldn't have even noticed it as a possible point of complaint if I hadn't heard so many "lol Billy Joel" kind of stuff about this movie.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

They so Disney-fied the shit out of this that it literally took me being in my 20s to realize this was based on Oliver Twist. Whoops. I think I was at work and I had just gotten my Oliver (pics coming soon I promise) and my coworker asked if I named him after Oliver & Co and I said "No, Oliver Twist..." and he just stared at me until it clicked and I went "Holy fuck I'm dumb" lol!

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

I really miss this kind of animation. Not just 2D hand drawn but the fluidity and style. It looks great.

Personally I thought a the animation for the was inconsistent.

The matte backgrounds at the start of the film were in such a different style as the animation it just looked odd to have them together. It got better as it went along and sequences like Rita's song everything was clicking together but there were just bits here and there were elements were at odds. Another scene when the butler was driving in the car there is a very harsh line between his face and the animated background behind it. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky considering that The Little Mermaid came next and this was at the same time as Roger Rabbit so I was expecting a bit more.

[Cam Bert 8145]

Also at first I did not realize that Dodger was Billy Joel and thought it was Michael J Fox trying to do his best New York accent for like the first 20 minutes or so.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

5 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Personally I thought a the animation for the was inconsistent.

The matte backgrounds at the start of the film were in such a different style as the animation it just looked odd to have them together. It got better as it went along and sequences like Rita's song everything was clicking together but there were just bits here and there were elements were at odds. Another scene when the butler was driving in the car there is a very harsh like between his face and the animated background behind it. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky considering that The Little Mermaid came next and this was at the same time as Roger Rabbit so I was expecting a bit more.

The initial song was very different to me than the rest of the movie.  I thought the movie was going to have a completely different tone.  I'm not complaining.  I watched this three times over my 3-day rental period so you know I liked it anyway.

[Cam Bert 8145]

3 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

The initial song was very different to me than the rest of the movie.  I thought the movie was going to have a completely different tone.  I'm not complaining.  I watched this three times over my 3-day rental period so you know I liked it anyway.

True. By the time Dodge shows up the backgrounds get a little more consistent to the style.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

This is my Oliver!

Named as such because we found him abandoned by his litter and he was basically a little street rat (Aladdin was also a name we considered). We got him exactly 2 years ago and he went from looking like he was days away from dying to this beautiful perfect healthy little asshole.

[grudlian. 4725]

24 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

The initial song was very different to me than the rest of the movie.  I thought the movie was going to have a completely different tone.  I'm not complaining.  I watched this three times over my 3-day rental period so you know I liked it anyway.

Yep. I heard the song and thought "This sounds like Huey Lewis. I thought this was supposed to be Billy Joel music."

31 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Personally I thought a the animation for the was inconsistent.

The matte backgrounds at the start of the film were in such a different style as the animation it just looked odd to have them together. It got better as it went along and sequences like Rita's song everything was clicking together but there were just bits here and there were elements were at odds. Another scene when the butler was driving in the car there is a very harsh line between his face and the animated background behind it. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky considering that The Little Mermaid came next and this was at the same time as Roger Rabbit so I was expecting a bit more.

You're right. It has some places where the animation isn't great. When it's good, it's really good though. I kind of like the unpolished feel of it though it's not as unpolished as say Aristocats.

I'll also confess I watched most of this while making supper. So, there was a fair amount of just listening and not watching the screen intently and might have missed some of the flaws. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

Do you guys think the only reason Oliver was not chosen over his brothers and sisters was because he's ginger?

[grudlian. 4725]

2 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Do you guys think the only reason Oliver was not chosen over his brothers and sisters was because he's ginger?

I don't know why, but I was crying when he's in that box by himself. And I'm thinking "am I going to spend this entire movie upset?"

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

1 minute ago, grudlian. said:

I don't know why, but I was crying when he's in that box by himself. And I'm thinking "am I going to spend this entire movie upset?"

I was too.  When the box fell apart in the rain I almost lost it.  I guess it's because I got kittens a year ago and now  can relate much more to his plight.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

2 hours ago, grudlian. said:

Yep. I heard the song and thought "This sounds like Huey Lewis. I thought this was supposed to be Billy Joel music."

You're right. It has some places where the animation isn't great. When it's good, it's really good though. I kind of like the unpolished feel of it.

I'll also confess I watched most of this while making supper. So, there was a fair amount of just listening and not watching the screen intently.

I didn't even recognize it was Huey Lewis.  I remember when this movie came out and everyone was making a big deal about Billy Joel being in it.  Yet Bette Midler has a large part as well and I never knew she was in it!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

13 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Do you guys think the only reason Oliver was not chosen over his brothers and sisters was because he's ginger?

I can't figure out why he was left behind at all! Orange tabbys are universally beloved! Black cats are the ones that have the hardest time getting adopted and left behind (which is why I'm so protective of my own), so it may have had more meaning if Oliver had been a black cat? But then again the animation may have looked more flat if he was one solid dark color.

[SaraK 1980]

Ugh guys, I rented this from the library and then was about to watch it last night, but my dog had a seizure and had to go to ER Vet. (He's ok, apparently aside from the seizure, he's extremely healthy. Dogs are weird). There's a lesson in procrastination in there somewhere. 

So I'm going to try to watch it tonight.  And I've had the song "Why Should I Worry' stuck in my head since this movie was chosen, so I HAVE to watch it to get it out. 

1 hour ago, taylorannephoto said:

I can't figure out why he was left behind at all! Orange tabbys are universally beloved! Black cats are the ones that have the hardest time getting adopted and left behind (which is why I'm so protective of my own), so it may have had more meaning if Oliver had been a black cat? But then again the animation may have looked more flat if he was one solid dark color.

This is very true of black cats at my shelter, but weirdly, brown tabbies are much more popular than orange ones. I don't know why - we have so many brown tabby and so few orange ones. Orange cats are like one step above black cats. People don't like Halloween colors I guess. 

[grudlian. 4725]

4 minutes ago, SaraK said:

Ugh guys, I rented this from the library and then was about to watch it last night, but my dog had a seizure and had to go to ER Vet. (He's ok, apparently aside from the seizure, he's extremely healthy. Dogs are weird). There's a lesson in procrastination in there somewhere. 

So I'm going to try to watch it tonight.  And I've had the song "Why Should I Worry' stuck in my head since this movie was chosen, so I HAVE to watch it to get it out. 

This is very true of black cats at my shelter, but weirdly, brown tabbies are much more popular than orange ones. I don't know why - we have so many brown tabby and so few orange ones. Orange cats are like one step above black cats. People don't like Halloween colors I guess. 

Consider me Team Black Cats Rule for life. If I weren't at work, I'd post a picture of mine. 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

20 minutes ago, SaraK said:

Ugh guys, I rented this from the library and then was about to watch it last night, but my dog had a seizure and had to go to ER Vet. (He's ok, apparently aside from the seizure, he's extremely healthy. Dogs are weird). There's a lesson in procrastination in there somewhere. 

So I'm going to try to watch it tonight.  And I've had the song "Why Should I Worry' stuck in my head since this movie was chosen, so I HAVE to watch it to get it out. 

This is very true of black cats at my shelter, but weirdly, brown tabbies are much more popular than orange ones. I don't know why - we have so many brown tabby and so few orange ones. Orange cats are like one step above black cats. People don't like Halloween colors I guess. 

I've got street savoir faire

 

[JammerLea 2070]

2 hours ago, grudlian. said:

I don't know why, but I was crying when he's in that box by himself. And I'm thinking "am I going to spend this entire movie upset?"

I've seen this multiple times over the years, and I was still ready to cry during that opening song. Also because it's personalized and Huey Lewis is singing directly TO Oliver.

I ended up watching this twice over the weekend (because my roommate wanted to see it too). I agree that the animation seems inconsistent. Especially during Georgette's song, where her movements and expressions are much more exaggerated and cartoony than almost everything else in the movie. I still love this film though lol

[JammerLea 2070]

Also, can I say I'm still sad that Rita's song "Streets of Gold" is not in the movie in full? There's a whole other verse, but it's more about about stealing, so I wonder if that's why it was cut.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I found myself thinking a lot about where this movie lands in Disney's history and in the history of animation. It was always going to suffer in reputation from, as stated earlier, being released in the same year as Who Framed Roger Rabbit and one year behind Little Mermaid.  It was also released the same year as Land Before Time and one year before another group-of-down-on-their-luck-stray-pets-in-which-Dom DeLuise-plays-a-supporting-role movie, All Dogs God to Heaven. So even if this doesn't have the same tone or style as classic Disney, which Little Mermaid revitalized, it would still be in the shadow of those other, better remembered Don Bluth films. It's been too long since I've seen either Land Before Time or All Dogs Go to Heaven, so I would be remiss to compare the technical merits of the films now, but I know as a child I preferred those two to Oliver & Company. Plus, I hold Roger Rabbit to be a masterpiece and it is my favorite Zemeckis film (I KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT THANK YOU). So animation is just in this very interesting transitional period, in which technology will soon allow for the achievements of both Roger Rabbit and Little Mermaid,  not to mention we are right before the outstanding flood of TV animation with the likes of Tiny Toon Adventures, Batman the Animated Series, and right in the middle of the various Duck-related Disney shows. It was also a time when, I think, Disney was really struggling to hold onto its identity, as their golden age of animation had long since passed, as had their live-action kid friendly comedies like Mary Poppins or even The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes. That would, of course, change the next year, as Little Mermaid would usher in a new golden age, only to be again revitalized by Pixar, and now when something like Coco or Incredibles 2 comes out, the studio slays all opponents at the box office, but that was just not the case for much of the 1970s and 1980s. I just find it fascinating, dudes and dames!

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

1 hour ago, Quasar Sniffer said:

I found myself thinking a lot about where this movie lands in Disney's history and in the history of animation. It was always going to suffer in reputation from, as stated earlier, being released in the same year as Who Framed Roger Rabbit and one year behind Little Mermaid.  It was also released the same year as Land Before Time and one year before another group-of-down-on-their-luck-stray-pets-in-which-Dom DeLuise-plays-a-supporting-role movie, All Dogs God to Heaven. So even if this doesn't have the same tone or style as classic Disney, which Little Mermaid revitalized, it would still be in the shadow of those other, better remembered Don Bluth films. It's been too long since I've seen either Land Before Time or All Dogs Go to Heaven, so I would be remiss to compare the technical merits of the films now, but I know as a child I preferred those two to Oliver & Company. Plus, I hold Roger Rabbit to be a masterpiece and it is my favorite Zemeckis film (I KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT THANK YOU). So animation is just in this very interesting transitional period, in which technology will soon allow for the achievements of both Roger Rabbit and Little Mermaid,  not to mention we are right before the outstanding flood of TV animation with the likes of Tiny Toon Adventures, Batman the Animated Series, and right in the middle of the various Duck-related Disney shows. It was also a time when, I think, Disney was really struggling to hold onto its identity, as their golden age of animation had long since passed, as had their live-action kid friendly comedies like Mary Poppins or even The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes. That would, of course, change the next year, as Little Mermaid would usher in a new golden age, only to be again revitalized by Pixar, and now when something like Coco or Incredibles 2 comes out, the studio slays all opponents at the box office, but that was just not the case for much of the 1970s and 1980s. I just find it fascinating, dudes and dames!

Hopefully you can educate me.  IMDB trivia says: "The last animated Disney Classic to use line overlay, also called cel overlay, a technique used to make the backgrounds match the lines of the xeroxed objects in the film."  I don't understand how this technique helps the backgrounds and not what's being drawn on the cel.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

50 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Hopefully you can educate me.  IMDB trivia says: "The last animated Disney Classic to use line overlay, also called cel overlay, a technique used to make the backgrounds match the lines of the xeroxed objects in the film."  I don't understand how this technique helps the backgrounds and not what's being drawn on the cel.

I BELIEVE this is just referring to the technique of overlaying animation cells with specific objects in them over set backgrounds. It's why sometimes, especially on quicker TV or shorts animation, you see different color or shading variations in stationary objects rather than characters. For example, if a character is going to pick up the second of five identical hot dogs, you will be able to see the one he or she is going to pick up because it will stand out, as the other objects were xeroxed on a different cell layer than the characters, the background, or the object that is being moved. This also made it easier for Disney (or any animation house) to stay stylistically consistent. Specifically, "line overlay" involves literally overlaying the lines on a separate cell on top of the background paintings/drawings, which were initially set down as basic colors and shapes. Additional cells of more and more details can be added as needed with each additional layer, which dissipates the cheaper look of xeroxed drawings. 

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

Sorry, I’ve been mostly MIA today. I’ll probably have more to add tomorrow, but for now, did anyone else notice that one of the screenwriters was James Mangold?!

[grudlian. 4725]

11 hours ago, taylorannephoto said:

This is my Oliver!

Named as such because we found him abandoned by his litter and he was basically a little street rat (Aladdin was also a name we considered). We got him exactly 2 years ago and he went from looking like he was days away from dying to this beautiful perfect healthy little asshole.

My super awesome black cat Robocop

 

[grudlian. 4725]

And it would be unfair to my other cat to not post a picture of her as well. Here is Kitty Pryde