Episode 214 - Hercules: LIVE! (w/ Leslye Headland, Sasheer Zamata)

[JulyDiaz 2797]

Director Leslye Headland (Russian Doll) and Sasheer Zamata (Best Friends, SNL) joins Paul and Jason to discuss the 1983 science fiction-fantasy adventure film Hercules starring Lou Ferrigno. Recorded live at Largo in Los Angeles, they talk about the robots, Hercules tossing a bear into space, Lou Ferrigno’s dubbed voice, and much more.

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[AlmostAGhost 2718]

I wish there was more action with Baby Hercules. He was a better actor than Lou Ferrigno.

[samtrano 33]

This is a case where the terrible film was actually right and the podcast was wrong. It actually is "Pandora's jar". The wikipedia page has a section on why we say box:

Quote

The mistranslation of pithos, a large storage jar, as "box" is usually attributed to the sixteenth century humanist Erasmus of Rotterdam when he translated Hesiod's tale of Pandora into Latin. Hesiod's pithos refers to a large storage jar, often half-buried in the ground, used for wine, oil or grain. It can also refer to a funerary jar. Erasmus, however, translated pithos into the Latin word pyxis, meaning "box".[15] The phrase "Pandora's box" has endured ever since.

Also, regarding the movie getting myths confused, there is a precedent for rainbow bridges, but not in Greek myth. Norse mythology has a rainbow bridge connecting Earth and where the gods live.

[theworstbuddhist 572]

Should you be watching Star Crash? No. But there is a young Hasselhoff in it, and he would probably be a guest.

[JimKata 62]

Lou Ferrigno fights a bear in this movie AND on the Incredible Hulk. It would be funny if at one point in time it was in his contract that you had to let him fight a fucking bear if you wanted him in your project.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I haven’t listened yet bu I hope they redo Little Italy in Toronto.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

6 hours ago, samtrano said:

This is a case where the terrible film was actually right and the podcast was wrong. It actually is "Pandora's jar". The wikipedia page has a section on why we say box:

Also, regarding the movie getting myths confused, there is a precedent for rainbow bridges, but not in Greek myth. Norse mythology has a rainbow bridge connecting Earth and where the gods live.

In Greek mythology Iris is the personification of the rainbow and is a messenger of the gods . She  acts as the go between  for the gods and humanity in several cases . She's not a literal bridge though. That looked like the Bifrost like you mentioned.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

So in this version of the Hercules story I feel like they cut out the fact he is a demigod! Instead they have Zeus imbue a fully mortal baby who has 2 mortal parents with the powers of a god. Ademigod has one godly parent, usually Zeus because he can't keep his dick in his toga. Christ of the 12 Olympians 7 are his kids and 5 of THEM are the result of infidelity. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I mean... It could have been worse than a little bit of Arson. In the original myths Hercules is driven mad by Hera and murders his wife and kids. This is why he takes on his 12 labors as penance.

[Wil Dride 121]

C'mon, Jason: The Von Erichs?!? Could you have picked a more tragic reference than a family of wrestlers who mostly died way too young?

[Wil Dride 121]

 

7 hours ago, samtrano said:

This is a case where the terrible film was actually right and the podcast was wrong. It actually is "Pandora's jar". The wikipedia page has a section on why we say box:

Also, regarding the movie getting myths confused, there is a precedent for rainbow bridges, but not in Greek myth. Norse mythology has a rainbow bridge connecting Earth and where the gods live.

The thing with Pandora's could've turned into an Abbott and Costello routine:

 

"OK, so we have Pandora's Box."

"Actually, it's a jar."

"Well, not yet, it starts closed, but eventually it's ajar: That's how the evil escapes."

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I had to go look up the labors of Hercules because I was pretty sure the mythological origin of Ursa major and minor was different (it was--it involves a lady Zeus wants to bang and Hera turning her into a bear). Anyway, per wikipedai:

 

1. Slay the Nemean Lion.

2. Slay the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra.

3. Capture the Golden Hind of Artemis.

4. Capture the Erymanthian Boar.

5 Clean the Augean stables in a single day. (I guess he killed and captured so many animals now he's gotta clean up after them?)

6. Slay the Stymphalian Birds.

7. Capture the Cretan Bull.

8. Steal the Mares of Diomedes.

9. Obtain the girdle of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons.

10. Obtain the cattle of the monster Geryon.

11. Steal the apples of the Hesperides.

12. Capture and bring back Cerberus.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

So the ancient Greeks actually had myths about automatons aka robots.

https://www.theoi.com/Ther/Automotones.html

This is a great list of several of them ( I might read this site for fun when bored). Almost all the Automatons were built by the God of the Forge Hephaestus or have been attributed to the creator of the Labyrinth Daedalus.

During Jason and the Argonauts they come up against Talos a bronze man who was made by Hephaestus to protect Crete.  

There's the fire breathing horses He made for some of his son's that are called  the Horses of the Cabeiri, as well as fire breathing bronze bulls Jason has to use to plow a field to plant Dragon teeth that turn into skeleton warriors. ( As you do).

He also made the eagle that eats Prometheus's liver every day. (I always thought that was a live eagle not one made of bronze)

On a lighter note Hephaestus  made the Golden Celedones who were gold singing women for the temple of Delphi .

He also built what has basically sets of table roombas called  Golden Tripods that wheeled themselves around Olympus during feasts whenever gods wanted them. Because it's got to be hard to get cater waiters on Mount Olympus.

I did a quick Google search and it also looks like there were some automatons in Greek history as well.

Notably  there was a steam powered pigeon made by the Greek philosopher/ mathematician Archytas.

 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

23 minutes ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

I had to go look up the labors of Hercules because I was pretty sure the mythological origin of Ursa major and minor was different (it was--it involves a lady Zeus wants to bang and Hera turning her into a bear). Anyway, per wikipedai:

 

1. Slay the Nemean Lion.

2. Slay the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra.

3. Capture the Golden Hind of Artemis.

4. Capture the Erymanthian Boar.

5 Clean the Augean stables in a single day. (I guess he killed and captured so many animals now he's gotta clean up after them?)

6. Slay the Stymphalian Birds.

7. Capture the Cretan Bull.

8. Steal the Mares of Diomedes.

9. Obtain the girdle of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons.

10. Obtain the cattle of the monster Geryon.

11. Steal the apples of the Hesperides.

12. Capture and bring back Cerberus.

Poor Callisto. I always felt so bad for her.  The myth I read had Artemis turning her into a bear for lying about losing her virginity.

either way Callisto  could not catch a break! She was a follower of Artemis and Zeus tricks her into sleeping with him by morphing into her ( using the image of your daughter to rape someone... Stay classy Zeus) then she gets kicked out for losing her virginity, is turned into a bear, and her fucking son kills her. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Did anyone else notice at the start of the movie when they show Hercules floating in the stars while making him he's fully nude and has no dick. He looks like a Ken doll . Even the way his arms are posed looks like a doll. Is this a doll??  Like did they make a doll to sell or something and used it?

[RyanSz 3140]

52 minutes ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

I had to go look up the labors of Hercules because I was pretty sure the mythological origin of Ursa major and minor was different (it was--it involves a lady Zeus wants to bang and Hera turning her into a bear). Anyway, per wikipedai:

 

1. Slay the Nemean Lion.

2. Slay the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra.

3. Capture the Golden Hind of Artemis.

4. Capture the Erymanthian Boar.

5 Clean the Augean stables in a single day. (I guess he killed and captured so many animals now he's gotta clean up after them?)

6. Slay the Stymphalian Birds.

7. Capture the Cretan Bull.

8. Steal the Mares of Diomedes.

9. Obtain the girdle of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons.

10. Obtain the cattle of the monster Geryon.

11. Steal the apples of the Hesperides.

12. Capture and bring back Cerberus.

Sorry but you forgot Hercules also had to defeat Kratos.

 

Also I find it incredible looking at how different the careers of Ferrigno and Arnold Schwarzenegger are, consider they were fairly similar at the start. Both were Mr. Universe before going into acting, despite neither of them being able to accurately spit out their lines and both have played Hercules as one of their earlier roles, but that's where it ends as Ferrigno became a kitchy actor to hire for odd roles while Arnold became one of the biggest movie stars in history. Also in regards to the comment about not being able to pull off a plot twist in the first act of a film, I think there are a couple instances in film history where that's been able to happen, albeit with help from the films marketing, Scream being a prime example in that basically everything from the posters to the trailers would have you think that the biggest name in the film Drew Barrymore was the lead character, only to see her die in the first ten minutes of the movie. Another example would be the recent bomb Life Itself which focused promotional material on the movie being a romantic drama about Oscar Isaac and Olivia Wilde, when in actuality

their story is only the first handful of scenes, are told by Isaac to his therapist as Wilde has been dead for a while, ending with him killing himself in the therapist's office, the remaining four chapters of the film follow their daughter and other people.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

As a life long Greek mythology nerd I have to say this film was wild. I think my favorite ( ie I could enjoy and not want to yell at the screen about it being incorrect because I 'm *THAT* nerd. Harry Potter movies are a real experience with me let's just say...) Was that they turned Daedalus into a fun campy Martian lady with a fondness for automatons that look like you can buy  them at Toys R Us. An improvement on the eventually bitter and cruel inventor of the Labyrinth. 

not that I wouldn't be bitter if I was forced to make my queen a cow fuck suit so she could seduce a bull them have to build, and eventually be imprisoned because of building, a deadly labyrinth for her monstrous child, only to escape but to have my son son die in the process in part due to my invention.

I don't think I would murder my nephew because I couldn't bare the thought of having someone else be as clever as me but you know we all grieve differently. 

Martian Lady is much more fun.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Did Hercules ever actually find out why he's so strong? Seems like he got waylaid there a bit...

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I need June to talk about these costumes.

[Cam Bert 8145]

While we are shouting into the wind tunnel that is inaccuracies in Greek mythology his name is Heracles not Hercules. Hercules is his Romanized name.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

7 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

Poor Callisto. I always felt so bad for her.  The myth I read had Artemis turning her into a bear for lying about losing her virginity.

either way Callisto  could not catch a break! She was a follower of Artemis and Zeus tricks her into sleeping with him by morphing into her ( using the image of your daughter to rape someone... Stay classy Zeus) then she gets kicked out for losing her virginity, is turned into a bear, and her fucking son kills her. 

I used to read Edith Hamilton’s Mythology book as a kid, and while I mostly remember Callisto as the villainess on Xena, I feel like every lady Zeus “fell in love with” was then turned into horrible things by him or other gods. They would always blame it on Hera and even as a kid I was like, “he needs to stop fucking all these ladies because TERRIBLE things always happen, doesn’t he care???”

like what happened to Herc’s mom? Lemme look it up. 

Oh look Zeus pretended to be her husband, so he raped her. And then she got turned to stone or something? https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Mortals/Alcmene/alcmene.html 

People who be.ieved this trash created the pillars of our society. Siiigh.

 

Eta: Regarding, automatons, there was a robot owl in “Clash of the Titans” og version. I remember because I wanted one. 

Eta2: in response to Paul’s question about who is “my” Hercules. I think Lou Ferrigno looks more like the Hercules we see in art, but Ryan Gosling was a great Young Hercules.  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169516/

[gigi-tastic 2322]

1 hour ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

I used to read Edith Hamilton’s Mythology book as a kid, and while I mostly remember Callisto as the villainess on Xena, I feel like every lady Zeus “fell in love with” was then turned into horrible things by him or other gods. They would always blame it on Hera and even as a kid I was like, “he needs to stop fucking all these ladies because TERRIBLE things always happen, doesn’t he care???”

like what happened to Herc’s mom? Lemme look it up. 

Oh look Zeus pretended to be her husband, so he raped her. And then she got turned to stone or something? https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Mortals/Alcmene/alcmene.html 

People who be.ieved this trash created the pillars of our society. Siiigh.

 

Eta: Regarding, automatons, there was a robot owl in “Clash of the Titans” og version. I remember because I wanted one. 

Eta2: in response to Paul’s question about who is “my” Hercules. I think Lou Ferrigno looks more like the Hercules we see in art, but Ryan Gosling was a great Young Hercules.  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169516/

The whole reason Hercules is NAMED Hercules was to appease Hera. Hercules is the Roman version of his name which is really Heraklês. Like " Sorry your husband raped me please don't torture me or my child! Here we named him for you please just have a little mercy!! "

He seems to be her most hated of Zeus's offspring. Like she just SNAPPED when it came to him. She started attacking him while he was still in the womb by delaying his birth so he misses out on Zeus's decree that the next male child born that day will be lord over everything or something. She makes sure another child is born prematurely as well and them Hercules had to serve him.  

Then while he's an infant she sends to snakes to kill him. Like girl. Maybe chill a wee bit? 

Of course she drives him mad and he murders his wife and children...

As you do.

Extra awkward that when he becomes a God he ended up marrying her daughter Hebe (his third wife. his second one accidentally killed him. Who among us hasn't believed the evil centaur who kidnapped us and tried to assult us when he says his blood will save your marriage from infidelity! I exclusively take marriage advice and love potions ONLY in this scenario! Dr. Phil who?!)

I wonder how dinner with the in laws works in that family. Granted it's a giant incest knot of relations so it's gonna be awkward.

Also Bubo the owl is EVERYTHING 

And I still have a crush on Callisto from Xena. She deserved a more interesting Xena like redemption than becoming an angel and all that insanity.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

 

9 hours ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

I had to go look up the labors of Hercules because I was pretty sure the mythological origin of Ursa major and minor was different (it was--it involves a lady Zeus wants to bang and Hera turning her into a bear). Anyway, per wikipedai:

 

1. Slay the Nemean Lion.

2. Slay the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra.

3. Capture the Golden Hind of Artemis.

4. Capture the Erymanthian Boar.

5 Clean the Augean stables in a single day. (I guess he killed and captured so many animals now he's gotta clean up after them?)

6. Slay the Stymphalian Birds.

7. Capture the Cretan Bull.

8. Steal the Mares of Diomedes.

9. Obtain the girdle of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons.

10. Obtain the cattle of the monster Geryon.

11. Steal the apples of the Hesperides.

12. Capture and bring back Cerberus.

I'm the movie they show a few of these. There's the cleaning of the stables that he does by moving the river in the myth as well. They mixed the hydra and Cerberus because The Goodest Boi is the TRUE guardian of the gates of the underworld to keep shades from escaping.  

 

[Mister Card 23]

 Speaking of local planetariums My high school had a planetarium built into it. I guess at one point astronomy was a class you could take,  but eventually they couldn’t find someone to run the machine so it was only used once in a while. I only got to use it once in Spanish class when we learned about the Mayan calendar

[Kothel 42]

Correction, or at least dispute. I don't think the movie has any real Christian overtones. Nor do I think the rainbow to hell (or hel) is homophobia. As far as I could tell, the rainbow flag didn't become an LGBT symbol until 1978. Since this movie came out five years later, I don't know that it would be common knowledge to associate a rainbow with being gay (particularly if you're a very weird writer-director from Italy) in the early 80s the way it would be by the 90s. I think it's more likely a reference to Iris, one of the messenger gods who if I recall correctly traveled on a rainbow. 

Also, the word Hell has become Christian, but I think this is more of the writer misremembering Greek Mythology. In Greek mythology, if you're awesome you go to the Elysian Fields and if you were bad you go to Hades. Hel is from Norse mythology. There's a goddess named Hel, who presides over Hel where cowards and shitty people go. If you're awesome you go Valhalla and I think there was also some middle ground for people who were okay, but not heroic enough for Valhalla. So this is mixing of mythology. 

Incidentally, Jesus never talks about Hell in the bible. He uses Gehenna (where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth), which was also the name of the place in Jerusalem where they burned trash.