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Cameron H.

Episode 218 - Deadfall (w/ Chelsea Peretti)

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<Major spoilers ahead>

I admit I didn't see it in the movie until I read IMDB.  This movie is supposed to be a take on The Sting.  That's why the carousel, why the main character walks away with no money, etc.  I honestly thought the donut shop girl was going to try to assassinate Michael Biehn like the diner lady did Robert Redford.  The shadowy guy is like the guy Paul Newman asked to keep an eye on Robert Redford and keep him safe.  I'm assuming maybe the dad dying at the beginning was supposed to be like James Earl Jones' real-life father dying in The Sting, to give the main character some motivation.

The con is also similar, where they are trying to take the mark's money without him knowing he was taken.  (They were trying to break Dr. Lyme and drive him out of business.)  The people busting in and creating a shootout were the distraction this time.  All the stuff between the brothers was just to keep Michael Biehn on track.  The cake jewelry box was "the cake" initially to throw off Michael Biehn.  That was simply a red herring of sorts.  The real cake was the $2 million from the heist.

</major spoilers>

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52 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Agreed.  My local theater up in Philadelphia is showing it again on August 9th.  The last time I went they had multiple screens because of the demand.

Was this right around when The Disaster Artist was coming out? We were in the same showing if an extremely drunk girl barfed in the front row right as everyone was getting to their seats. 

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1 minute ago, E.Lerner said:

Was this right around when The Disaster Artist was coming out? We were in the same showing if an extremely drunk girl barfed in the front row right as everyone was getting to their seats. 

The first time was.  The August 9th I mentioned is coming up in a few weeks.  It showed at the Ritz at the Bourse theater.

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I know several people have brought up Tony Clifton as Cage's reference point for Eddie, but is it possible that we was going for The Joker? Cage is a noted comic book obsessive — he has/had a multi-million dollar collection, including a lot of vintage DC stuff — so he'd be deeply familiar with the source material.

Points in favor:

  • Largely green and purple wardrobe 
  • Insane smile and laugh 
  • has been disfigured in some way — disguising his appearance with wig/glasses/fake voices/etc.
  • Carries a deck of cards consisting solely of jokers 

All of this, plus his outsized presence in what is otherwise a fairly stock noir/small-time-crook setting makes me think that was the overall vibe he was going for. Thoughts?

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On 7/22/2019 at 12:24 AM, The_Triple_Lindy said:

During the scene when Eddie finds out that Joe paid Baby's debt with his own money and screams "FUUUUUUCK!" in the middle of the strip club, did anyone else see the guy wearing the T-shirt that says "Fuck" sitting on a stool behind him?

420414973_ScreenShot2019-07-21at7_09_47PM.jpg.25102209776c22f532009d8a5c69d477.jpg

 

YESSS!!!! Thought that was hilarious. 

I wonder if Cage saw the shirt and decided to shout it out or if they put the guy with the shirt there on purpose to mirror the line.

Probably the former!

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1 hour ago, E.Lerner said:

I know several people have brought up Tony Clifton as Cage's reference point for Eddie, but is it possible that we was going for The Joker? Cage is a noted comic book obsessive — he has/had a multi-million dollar collection, including a lot of vintage DC stuff — so he'd be deeply familiar with the source material.

Points in favor:

  • Largely green and purple wardrobe 
  • Insane smile and laugh 
  • has been disfigured in some way — disguising his appearance with wig/glasses/fake voices/etc.
  • Carries a deck of cards consisting solely of jokers 

All of this, plus his outsized presence in what is otherwise a fairly stock noir/small-time-crook setting makes me think that was the overall vibe he was going for. Thoughts?

It's certainly possible.  Extra points are he demands Lou show him the Joker card from the deck.  Also Nic Cage was going to play Superman when Kevin Smith was directing so Nic was already "in" the DC film universe.

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2 hours ago, SideofMcG said:

YESSS!!!! Thought that was hilarious. 

I wonder if Cage saw the shirt and decided to shout it out or if they put the guy with the shirt there on purpose to mirror the line.

Probably the former!

I'd be awesome if Nick Cage just never learned his lines, so he's just reading his lines off the extras' clothes. Like, if one of those people were wearing a "what are you looking at, maaaan?" t-shirt that we just can't see. Or another one that just says "[throws drink]."

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4 hours ago, Cinco DeNio said:

The con is also similar, where they are trying to take the mark's money without him knowing he was taken.  (They were trying to break Dr. Lyme and drive him out of business.)  The people busting in and creating a shootout were the distraction this time.  All the stuff between the brothers was just to keep Michael Biehn on track.  The cake jewelry box was "the cake" initially to throw off Michael Biehn.  That was simply a red herring of sorts.  The real cake was the $2 million from the heist.

All cons have a flashy name, so what is this -- the Philly Fake-cake? The Caribbean Cakewalk? The Ypsilanti Icebox?

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1 hour ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

All cons have a flashy name, so what is this -- the Philly Fake-cake? The Caribbean Cakewalk? The Ypsilanti Icebox?

Where did you pull Ypsilanti from? I suspect I know.  just curious.

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1 hour ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

All cons have a flashy name, so what is this -- the Philly Fake-cake? The Caribbean Cakewalk? The Ypsilanti Icebox?

Honestly I thought Deadfall was the name based on it requiring a major character to play dead as part of the scam.  (Although that's part of The Sting as well so I suspect Uncle Lou isn't really dead.)

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1 hour ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

All cons have a flashy name, so what is this -- the Philly Fake-cake? The Caribbean Cakewalk? The Ypsilanti Icebox?

I also thought of something like the remake Ocean's Eleven where they list a bunch of cons, each one telling part of how the heist is going to go.

"Off the top of my head, I'd say you're looking at a Boesky, a Jim Brown, a Miss Daisy, two Jethros and a Leon Spinks, not to mention the biggest Ella Fitzgerald ever."

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22 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Where did you pull Ypsilanti from? I suspect I know.  just curious.

I needed a funny city name and, having just drove to upstate Michigan recently, Ypsilanti was fresh on the mind.

I kinda think Ypsilanti is one of those cities that I first heard mentioned on Looney Tunes, like Cucamonga or Walla Walla or Albuquerque.

(And just to harken back to a previous board discussion about whether or not Bugs Bunny et al were still relevant -- see previous sentence for QED)

21 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Honestly I thought Deadfall was the name based on it requiring a major character to play dead as part of the scam.  (Although that's part of The Sting as well so I suspect Uncle Lou isn't really dead.)

If that's true, then that's part of the movie's whole problem right there ... "Deadfall" isn't zippy enough. Maybe if it were "the Des Moines Deadfall" ... 

19 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

I also thought of something like the remake Ocean's Eleven where they list a bunch of cons, each one telling part of how the heist is going to go.

"Off the top of my head, I'd say you're looking at a Boesky, a Jim Brown, a Miss Daisy, two Jethros and a Leon Spinks, not to mention the biggest Ella Fitzgerald ever."

That felt like they were describing the roles to be played in the con, not the con itself. I could be wrong.

But even the title Ocean's Eleven proves my previous point. The formula is simple, Hollywood, jeez ... Proper noun + abstract noun = successful heist movie. 

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14 minutes ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

I needed a funny city name and, having just drove to upstate Michigan recently, Ypsilanti was fresh on the mind.

I kinda think Ypsilanti is one of those cities that I first heard mentioned on Looney Tunes, like Cucamonga or Walla Walla or Albuquerque.

(And just to harken back to a previous board discussion about whether or not Bugs Bunny et al were still relevant -- see previous sentence for QED)

If that's true, then that's part of the movie's whole problem right there ... "Deadfall" isn't zippy enough. Maybe if it were "the Des Moines Deadfall" ... 

That felt like they were describing the roles to be played in the con, not the con itself. I could be wrong.

But even the title Ocean's Eleven proves my previous point. The formula is simple, Hollywood, jeez ... Proper noun + abstract noun = successful heist movie. 

I was curious because I was born and raised in Ypsilanti.  (Or more properly, Ypsitucky, for all the Kentuckians that came to work in the bomber plant during World War II.  See the Jane Fonda film The Rainmaker for more on that subject.)  I thought maybe I had stated that in a previous thread.  Instead a happy coincidence!

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15 minutes ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

I needed a funny city name and, having just drove to upstate Michigan recently, Ypsilanti was fresh on the mind.

I kinda think Ypsilanti is one of those cities that I first heard mentioned on Looney Tunes, like Cucamonga or Walla Walla or Albuquerque.

(And just to harken back to a previous board discussion about whether or not Bugs Bunny et al were still relevant -- see previous sentence for QED)

If that's true, then that's part of the movie's whole problem right there ... "Deadfall" isn't zippy enough. Maybe if it were "the Des Moines Deadfall" ... 

That felt like they were describing the roles to be played in the con, not the con itself. I could be wrong.

But even the title Ocean's Eleven proves my previous point. The formula is simple, Hollywood, jeez ... Proper noun + abstract noun = successful heist movie. 

You are partially right that the names are part of the con but they are also cons in themselves when done separately.  The Two Jethros are two hicks (the Mormon twins in this instance).  The Ella Fitzgerald refers to them broadcasting a tape of the vault to disguise what was really happening (and/or the staged explosion which was also taped).  The Leon Spinks refers to the boxing match.  I think the Boesky refers to Carl Reiner's part of the big roller to distract the casino boss.  I'm not totally familiar with the Ivan Boesky story although I remember it happening.

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2 hours ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

I'd be awesome if Nick Cage just never learned his lines, so he's just reading his lines off the extras' clothes. Like, if one of those people were wearing a "what are you looking at, maaaan?" t-shirt that we just can't see. Or another one that just says "[throws drink]."

Dear @HDTGM, please make the [throws drink] shirt.

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1 hour ago, Cinco DeNio said:

You are partially right that the names are part of the con but they are also cons in themselves when done separately.  The Two Jethros are two hicks (the Mormon twins in this instance).  The Ella Fitzgerald refers to them broadcasting a tape of the vault to disguise what was really happening (and/or the staged explosion which was also taped).  The Leon Spinks refers to the boxing match.  I think the Boesky refers to Carl Reiner's part of the big roller to distract the casino boss.  I'm not totally familiar with the Ivan Boesky story although I remember it happening.

Boesky was busted for insider trading, which is sort of a con, I guess.

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In the context of this movie is a Deadfall the weight that drops on the narrative after Eddie is deep-fried? Cause I found it heard to get out from under after he was gone.

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On 7/21/2019 at 11:55 AM, Cameron H. said:

God, I’d really love to be a part of this conversation. Unfortunately, even though the movie was less than two hours long, I was somehow unable to finish it before my rental period ended. To be clear, I had ample time to watch it. I just couldn’t watch more than three minutes at a time due to apathy. I finished a bunch of sudoku puzzles though...

I, unfortunately (?), own this movie now, since renting it was the same price on Amazon Prime.

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1 minute ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

I, unfortunately (?), own this movie now, since renting it was the same price on Amazon Prime.

tumblr_niqqweCCP51smcbm7o1_250.gif

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12 hours ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Agreed.  My local theater up in Philadelphia is showing it again on August 9th.  The last time I went they had multiple screens because of the demand.

My local Landmark theater shows it every month without fail. I finally got to see a screening of it and it was everything I'd hoped for! 

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On 7/23/2019 at 10:34 AM, E.Lerner said:

I know several people have brought up Tony Clifton as Cage's reference point for Eddie, but is it possible that we was going for The Joker? Cage is a noted comic book obsessive — he has/had a multi-million dollar collection, including a lot of vintage DC stuff — so he'd be deeply familiar with the source material.

Points in favor:

  • Largely green and purple wardrobe 
  • Insane smile and laugh 
  • has been disfigured in some way — disguising his appearance with wig/glasses/fake voices/etc.
  • Carries a deck of cards consisting solely of jokers 

All of this, plus his outsized presence in what is otherwise a fairly stock noir/small-time-crook setting makes me think that was the overall vibe he was going for. Thoughts?

I think Tony Clifton comes to mind purely on appearance, and that the character was so over the top

AC151594-A9A6-4ADB-A06D-9EAAB88A0F04.jpeg

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