Episode 222 - Unforgettable

[RyanSz 3140]

So did anyone else see this as an allegory to Heigl's career? She started as a child/teen model, an industry with a strong emphasis on looks, and surprisingly earned a reputation as a difficult to work with due to stage parent mom who was also her manager, That reputation carried into her acting career where she did a variety of movies and shows, but nothing huge enough to get her continuous bigger roles. Then she lands Gray's Anatomy and earns heaps of praise and an Emmy, she even admitting during that speech that even her own mom/manager didn't think she was good enough to win. This basically has Hollywood needing to give her those bigger roles as the current "it" actress, akin to her getting an anchor baby to keep her husband in this movie. That eventually sours though as her prior reputation continues to cause her issues, like her various interviews about Knocked Up or how she withdrew her name from Emmy consideration because she didn't like the writing for Gray's Anatomy. Eventually she's leaving the show and doing flop after flop which pushes her outta sight of the casual TV/movie viewer, as her character also feels in this film, in what many saw along with the Emmy pulling out as a career suicide, which she does with literal suicide at the end of this.

 

Or maybe I'm just punchy from getting home after midnight from the Berkeley show, trying to remember my correction and omission for when that episode comes out.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

The absolute most irresponsible part of this movie is that it perpetuates the dangerous myth that getting gut-stabbed will kill a person instantly. Tessa just falls on the knife and is dead, when in reality, she could've had enough time to lay there and decide she wanted to Inigo Montoya herself up to slay them all. 

In fact, the movie would've totally redeemed itself if, instead of Lovey at the door at the end, it had been Tessa bursting through the plate glass door with the knife in her hand. Or better yet, dragging them underwater, Jason-style.

[Ofcoursemyhorse 1043]

3 hours ago, RyanSz said:

So did anyone else see this as an allegory to Heigl's career? She started as a child/teen model, an industry with a strong emphasis on looks, and surprisingly earned a reputation as a difficult to work with due to stage parent mom who was also her manager, That reputation carried into her acting career where she did a variety of movies and shows, but nothing huge enough to get her continuous bigger roles. Then she lands Gray's Anatomy and earns heaps of praise and an Emmy, she even admitting during that speech that even her own mom/manager didn't think she was good enough to win. This basically has Hollywood needing to give her those bigger roles as the current "it" actress, akin to her getting an anchor baby to keep her husband in this movie. That eventually sours though as her prior reputation continues to cause her issues, like her various interviews about Knocked Up or how she withdrew her name from Emmy consideration because she didn't like the writing for Gray's Anatomy. Eventually she's leaving the show and doing flop after flop which pushes her outta sight of the casual TV/movie viewer, as her character also feels in this film, in what many saw along with the Emmy pulling out as a career suicide, which she does with literal suicide at the end of this.

 

Or maybe I'm just punchy from getting home after midnight from the Berkeley show, trying to remember my correction and omission for when that episode comes out.

 

She chose the David Caruso approach to her career. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

6 minutes ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

In fact, the movie would've totally redeemed itself if, instead of Lovey at the door at the end, it had been Tessa bursting through the plate glass door with the knife in her hand. Or better yet, dragging them underwater, Jason-style.

I was 100% expecting this - lol. I kept thinking, “Oh my God, why isn’t this ending? This should be over. What’s going to happen now?” Lovey was fine, but I was literally thinking “Friday the 13th” too. 

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

12 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I was 100% expecting this - lol. I kept thinking, “Oh my God, why isn’t this ending? This should be over. What’s going to happen now?” Lovey was fine, but I was literally thinking “Friday the 13th” too. 

It totally should've happened.

Although, I see Lovey's presence at the end of the movie as an interesting franchise opportunity. I'd love to see a sequel where Lovey is now the one terrorizing Julia, much to everyone else's obliviousness. And maybe the sequel could feature Tessa's aunt hanging around in the background the whole movie, and when Lovey is killed, the aunt could show up at the end, and each sequel goes on that way, with the cousin and the half-sister from dad's second marriage, and so on. Just like the Waterfall Family hippies from Futurama [edit to acknowledge that an audience member said this].

[Cameron H. 23786]

I hate to correct Paul on this since he had so much trouble getting it out, but the cake says:

GOODBYE-ISH JULIA

WE’LL MISS YOU REGARDLESS. 

There isn’t a comma between “you” and “regardless.” (Although there probably should be one between “Goodbye-ish” and “Julia.”) All they’re saying is that even though she’s not leaving the company, they’ll miss seeing her around the office. 

(I can’t seem to take a screen shot, but the time stamp is 3:58)

[gigi-tastic 2322]

6 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

I believe (I could be wrong) Amazon Worlds has been shut down. From what I understand, it was some fan fiction, but it was also books just based on different “themes” or “worlds.” It was a way for indie authors to get their work in front of eyes that might better appreciate their genre. So, for example, if you were into Dinosaur porn books, you could have your book included in the dinosaur porn “world” for people to easily find. This was, for awhile, a pretty good way for indie authors to get noticed and make a decent living. Ultimately, its downfall was that each “world” had a head author whose responsibility was to curate the work being uploaded. Essentially, they acted as the EiC and it was their job to either approve or reject incoming submissions. The catch was, for each book uploaded to their world, the head author would receive something like fifty dollars - whether that book was profitable or not. Unfortunately, as you might suspect, this lead to a lot of abuse when many of these (not all) head of world figures would accept a ton of books without regard to quality. (i.e. Lots of dinosaur porn books, just not *good* dinosaur porn books) This created a situation where no one was really making money except these heads of world, so Amazon shut it down.

To my knowledge, some of these worlds do still exist except now the *author* pays the head of the world instead of Amazon - which is in itself pretty shady.

It looks like the whole thing was shut down last year. I found this old article about it on Mic that was interesting from a legal perspective. It sounds like by submitting your fanfiction work Amazon Publishing and the OG licence holder own your original characters and story ideas and can use them how they want without you getting paid or credit.  So potentially you could see the story in like an anthology series or it could become a plot in whatever show or book you were writing about. Honestly from the sounds of it it seems like doing a 50 Shades of Grey  or Mortal Instruments would be the best way to keep your story intact and yours.

Also the idea of buying fan fiction seems like a really silly business idea. Archive of Our Own is full of fantastic work. I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated for their time or that their work doesn't deserve but paid for because it's lesser than original fiction, I love fan works, but I think part of the joy of fan works are that they are done simply because someone loved a property. It feels strange to me to have someone sell that work as is. It's the idea that you can take a community ( because I have yet to find fan works without being in some kind of community no matter how small. Actually usually the smaller the more dedicated) and put a price tag on it. I find fan works to be very much community based. Often something is written for someone, or drawn as part of a round up, a group's monthly theme challenge, or an exchange. 

I just don't know if selling fan fiction flat out is a great plan.( obviously with them shutting down it didn't work) .  I have no problem with Patreons, Ko-Fi tip jars etc as a way to monetarily compensate someone but I don't know maybe I'm old?

Also now I wonder if there's HDTGM fanfic but I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to look.

 https://www.mic.com/articles/43885/kindle-worlds-amazon-to-sell-fanfiction-but-should-fanfic-writers-participate

[gigi-tastic 2322]

5 hours ago, RyanSz said:

So did anyone else see this as an allegory to Heigl's career? She started as a child/teen model, an industry with a strong emphasis on looks, and surprisingly earned a reputation as a difficult to work with due to stage parent mom who was also her manager, That reputation carried into her acting career where she did a variety of movies and shows, but nothing huge enough to get her continuous bigger roles. Then she lands Gray's Anatomy and earns heaps of praise and an Emmy, she even admitting during that speech that even her own mom/manager didn't think she was good enough to win. This basically has Hollywood needing to give her those bigger roles as the current "it" actress, akin to her getting an anchor baby to keep her husband in this movie. That eventually sours though as her prior reputation continues to cause her issues, like her various interviews about Knocked Up or how she withdrew her name from Emmy consideration because she didn't like the writing for Gray's Anatomy. Eventually she's leaving the show and doing flop after flop which pushes her outta sight of the casual TV/movie viewer, as her character also feels in this film, in what many saw along with the Emmy pulling out as a career suicide, which she does with literal suicide at the end of this.

 

Or maybe I'm just punchy from getting home after midnight from the Berkeley show, trying to remember my correction and omission for when that episode comes out.

Not going to lie I was a bit shocked she was in this because last I heard she was doing cat litter commercials.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

13 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

My biggest problem with the movie in respect to the podcast was that it lacks the “ridiculous” that we’ve come to know and love from movies like this on HDTGM. Most of the time with a glorified Lifetime movie there will be something just plain absurd... like with the mothers dating the sons in the Naomi Watts movie.

I honestly thought while watching it that the absurd was found in the Ivanka Trump doppelgänger performance of Katherine Heigl, but then it went unmentioned. 

It needed a moment like when J-Lo stabs the guy in the eye in The Boy Next Door.

[Cameron H. 23786]

If you’re in any doubt just how rigidly put together Tessa’s character is, I’d only point out that she’s the type of person who uses correct punctuation whilst sexting - and I appreciate that. 

That being said, and I get there isn’t an MLA Handbook for this kind of thing (although there probably should be), if you’re going to punctuate at all, maybe use some exclamation points? Putting a period after “harder” feels a bit like sexting a neutral faced emoji.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:15 PM, GrahamS. said:

THANK YOU. I posted the 1996 Unforgettable with Ray Liotta over the summer in hopes they would pick it for Seattle (It was partially shot here and would have been a solid choice). It wasn’t. I was bummed (although I have watched Fateful Findings and it is legit insane, so it should make for a very fun show). In their current HDTGM episode, Paul and June reveal that they had seen the 2017 film (I was going to call it a “version” but the films appear to be completely different),, loved it, already picked it. I’m betting they didn’t want to pick the 1996 Unforgettable in order to avoid confusion. Such is life . I might bump the 1996 film again just for fun.

In the episode they talk about why the movie was named Unforgettable, but then talk about how most of the other good titles were taken. But Unforgettable is ALSO taken!

This does look like prime HDTGM material.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

Perhaps an omission:

When Paul read the taglines for the movie, they commented on how "For Better" and "For Worse" as separate taglines was dumb. But I suspected these were for two separate posters, each featuring a different actress. And indeed it was:

[RyanSz 3140]

24 minutes ago, gigi-tastic said:

Not going to lie I was a bit shocked she was in this because last I heard she was doing cat litter commercials.

In a weirder twist, she has basically taken over the Meghan Markle female-lead role on Suits, adding to a the ever growing HDTGM-iverse. Also this is the SECOND time she's done a role like this, and recently as well as she played a very similar character in a movie called Home Sweet Hell and prior to that was doing Zzzquil commercials.

[DrGuts1003 462]

I felt the extended timeline in this film was unnecessary and created more problems for the story.  This film seemingly takes place over a six month period.  Seemingly Katherine Heigl sets her plan to ruin Rosario Dawson’s life in action fairly quickly.

If so, this would mean that Heigl is spending a lot of time establishing a fake relationship with Vargas.  And I have a hard time believing that Vargas would just be cool having a 6 month virtual relationship with Julia after she put out a restraining order on him.  He seems like the type who would want to find her immediately to either sleep with her or physically abuse her.

Also, are we to believe that no one else came across Julia’s Facebook account.  I’m constantly getting asked if I want to be friends with people who I barely have any connection to and yet her fake account seemingly goes unnoticed by everyone else.  Surely Whitney Cummings or another one of her ChapterPad friends had to have gotten a notification that she was now on Facebook.

[Cameron H. 23786]

In the universe of the movie, Tessa is described by the people around her as being pretty much flawless, but during the margarita confessional scene, she describes Julia as being “gorgeous, talented, and effortlessly beautiful.” I guess she’s not so perfect that she can’t come up with a string of three adjectives where two-thirds of them don’t mean the exact same thing, huh? 

That being said, I would be pretty impressed if this was intentional flub as a subtle put down of Julia (i.e. refusing to call her intelligent) or as a way of further characterizing her shallow nature. However,  without reaction or comment from anyone in the movie, a line that is essentially saying, “You’re pretty, talented, and pretty” comes off pretty lazy, clumsy, and careless.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Right up top, whether or not Julia and Copperhead Brew had sex in a coat room or a bathroom, homeboy was definitely headed toward the bathroom, presumably to use it. Maybe I’m alone in this, but if I’m getting up to use the restroom, that’s going to be a big “no, thank you” from me regarding spontaneous dinner party sex.

Anyway, I get why it was maybe more interesting to intercut the sexting scene with the bathroom sex scene, but it also presents a super convenient clue that would have helped clear Julia had the police bothered to do - like Castle - a modicum of police work. Had they looked at the time stamps of the conversation, they could have asked any of the ten other people Julia was busy schmoozing with at the time if she seemed unusually preoccupied with her phone during the course of a moderately fancy business dinner. And even if someone was like, “Well, she did disappear for a few minutes” I’m sure Copperhead Brew could have corroborated her whereabouts. Sure, it might be embarrassing, but Julia has a really strong alibi for what she was doing at that specific time. Not only that, it’s not like identity theft is completely unheard of or that Tessa doesn’t have any motivation. A detective worth his salt would have at least listened to her side of the story. I feel like everyone in the movie was way too quick to dismiss Julia right out of hand.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

7 hours ago, DrGuts1003 said:

Also, are we to believe that no one else came across Julia’s Facebook account.  I’m constantly getting asked if I want to be friends with people who I barely have any connection to and yet her fake account seemingly goes unnoticed by everyone else.  Surely Whitney Cummings or another one of her ChapterPad friends had to have gotten a notification that she was now on Facebook.

Good point. One of the first things I do on Facebook when I get a friend request, even from someone I might know, is look at the number of friends they have. Because guess what an account with one friend means in the world of identity theft and bots? It means LIAR.

1 hour ago, Cameron H. said:

In the universe of the movie, Tessa is described by the people around her as being pretty much flawless, but during the margarita confessional scene, she describes Julia as being “gorgeous, talented, and effortlessly beautiful.” I guess she’s not so perfect that she can’t come up with a string of three adjectives where two-thirds of them don’t mean the exact same thing, huh? 

That being said, I would be pretty impressed if this was intentional flub as a subtle put down of Julia (i.e. refusing to call her intelligent) or as a way of further characterizing her shallow nature. However,  without reaction or comment from anyone in the movie, a line that is essentially saying, “You’re pretty, talented, and pretty” comes off pretty lazy, clumsy, and careless.

It would make sense, seeing as being pretty is the ultimate objective in Tessa's mind. 

By the time they have the margaritas, Tessa has already stolen Julia's phone and started reaching out to Mike, so it seems more like a gratuitous complement for the sake of disarming Julia in order to get that sweet, sweet personal info. "You're so pretty and talented ... and did I say pretty? Want to tell me about your beauty regimen, including all your morning activity and the route of your morning jog?" 

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

Putting two cents in on this week's bicameral debate, seemingly intended to polarize the boards and divide us ideologically:

I didn't read Tessa's final act as either a noble sacrifice or a response to her disfigured visage. It was the compulsive action of someone who had a manic crash and acted tragically. 

She looks at herself in the mirror and says "Why do you always ruin everything?" This seems like a line meant to reflect everything that her mother has told her all her life and that she had internalized over time which, after years of festering as maladaptive behaviors, manifested in the psycho behavior we see in the movie and culminated in one final psychological break and a snap decision to assess her own worthlessness and end her own life. In that regard, she seems like any number of deeply depressed individuals whose outward perfection masks a deep inner pain that she is unable to acknowledge and deal with, in which case, yeah, I might agree with Paul that she's misunderstood.

On the other hand, the "defeated villain hurls herself to her death" is just the kind of cheap Hollywood trope tripe that this movie seems to be peddling, so ... 

[Cameron H. 23786]

10 minutes ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Putting two cents in on this week's bicameral debate, seemingly intended to polarize the boards and divide us ideologically:

I didn't read Tessa's final act as either a noble sacrifice or a response to her disfigured visage. It was the compulsive action of someone who had a manic crash and acted tragically. 

She looks at herself in the mirror and says "Why do you always ruin everything?" This seems like a line meant to reflect everything that her mother has told her all her life and that she had internalized over time which, after years of festering as maladaptive behaviors, manifested in the psycho behavior we see in the movie and culminated in one final psychological break and a snap decision to assess her own worthlessness and end her own life. In that regard, she seems like any number of deeply depressed individuals whose outward perfection masks a deep inner pain that she is unable to acknowledge and deal with, in which case, yeah, I might agree with Paul that she's misunderstood.

On the other hand, the "defeated villain hurls herself to her death" is just the kind of cheap Hollywood trope tripe that this movie seems to be peddling, so ... 

This movie would have been crazy dark if the movie had ended with the police shooting Julia. From their point of view, after being released for suspicion of murder, this person rushed over to Tessa’s house, murdered her, beat and tied up her husband, and seems to be in the process of burning evidence and kidnapping their daughter. She never speaks to the 911 operator, so for all the police know, Tessa was making the call!

Honestly, I thought that’s where the movie was going and that Tessa’s final line was almost a fuck you. “I won’t let my daughter remember me as the crazy one. She’ll remember you as the person who killed her mother!”

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

4 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

This movie would have been crazy dark if the movie had ended with the police shooting Julia. From their point of view, after being released for suspicion of murder, this person rushed over to Tessa’s house, murdered her, beat and tied up her husband, and seems to be in the process of burning evidence and kidnapping their daughter. She never speaks to the 911 operator, so for all the police know, Tessa was making the call!

Honestly, I thought that’s where the movie was going and that Tessa’s final line was almost a fuck you. “I won’t let my daughter remember me as the crazy one. She’ll remember you as the person who killed her mother!”

Any court in the country would've convicted Julia in a heartbeat. 

And I laughed out loud when the cops holding Julia said that the evidence against her was all circumstantial. Forget the sexting and panties in the car ... her abusive ex lying dead on her kitchen floor, stabbed by a knife that had Julia's prints all over it? That's "circumstantial?" 

And then to have the cops walk in to see another person dead by stabbing while Julia's holding the knife? Sorry, Julia ... see you at the parole hearing in 10 years. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

3 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

In the universe of the movie, Tessa is described by the people around her as being pretty much flawless, but during the margarita confessional scene, she describes Julia as being “gorgeous, talented, and effortlessly beautiful.” I guess she’s not so perfect that she can’t come up with a string of three adjectives where two-thirds of them don’t mean the exact same thing, huh? 

That being said, I would be pretty impressed if this was intentional flub as a subtle put down of Julia (i.e. refusing to call her intelligent) or as a way of further characterizing her shallow nature. However,  without reaction or comment from anyone in the movie, a line that is essentially saying, “You’re pretty, talented, and pretty” comes off pretty lazy, clumsy, and careless.

I feel like the idea of Effortless Beauty is probably something that Tessa covets deeply actually. Everything about her seems so calculated and planned. The notion of being one of those women who can just throw on literally anything and truly get away with looking stunning  .Not to be confused with the cleverly designed "messy" chic look I've seen going on to prove women are the Effortless Beauty but actually take a surprising amount effort.  The steps needed for the messy bun alone are shocking.  I think that the compliment was totally back handed but it's something she wants for herself. She wants to be effortless and free. The years of having her mother's psychological torture  on what is an acceptable form of femininity has made her cold, tightly wound, and brittle. Everything about her beauty and the glamorous (non murderous) parts of her life are made with extreme amount of effort and work.  The idea of being able to just BE and be seen as worthy ( under her warped view where beauty and perfection is everything) must be intoxicating. I bet this is another reason she hates Julia. She is the antithesis of what Tessa is and how she lives her life. She's what she secretly wants to be. 

[DrGuts1003 462]

I wish the film had been more consistent with its own internal logic.  During the first Copper Mountain Brewery event after Tessa gives her speech, one of the other investors’ wives points out to Julia that Tessa won’t even actually take a sip of the beer because she doesn’t want the calories.

But throughout the rest of the film we see Tessa drinking copious amounts of wine.  As you can see in the infographic below, while wine does not have quite as many calories as beer, it is certainly not a calorie-free beverage.

We also see Tessa have two margaritas at lunch with Julia.  According to nutritionaction.com “Most restaurant chains’ mojitos, Moscow mules, and margaritas deliver 200 to 300 calories. Chili’s Strawberry or Mango Patrón Margarita hits 360. But a classic margarita—tequila, lime, triple sec—in a small glass cuts most of the sugar and hovers around 200 calories.”

And how have we not talked about Tessa vaping yet?!?  For a woman so consumed with beauty, she sure has a lot of unhealthy habits.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Just now, DrGuts1003 said:

I wish the film had been more consistent with its own internal logic.  During the first Copper Mountain Brewery event after Tessa gives her speech, one of the other investors’ wives points out to Julia that Tessa won’t even actually take a sip of the beer because she doesn’t want the calories.

But throughout the rest of the film we see Tessa drinking copious amounts of wine.  As you can see in the infographic below, while wine does not have quite as many calories as beer, it is certainly not a calorie-free beverage.

We also see Tessa have two margaritas at lunch with Julia.  According to nutritionaction.com “Most restaurant chains’ mojitos, Moscow mules, and margaritas deliver 200 to 300 calories. Chili’s Strawberry or Mango Patrón Margarita hits 360. But a classic margarita—tequila, lime, triple sec—in a small glass cuts most of the sugar and hovers around 200 calories.”

And how have we not talked about Tessa vaping yet?!?  For a woman so consumed with beauty, she sure has a lot of unhealthy habits.

I feel like we as a society have entered this weird place where wine might be alcohol but not really. It's celebrated to the point where you can find countless things proudly saying that you're an pretty much an alcoholic mother and you absolutely must have your special juice hahaha! It's very weird to observe as the child of an actual alcoholic. 

I have no problem with drinking and I drink, it's just the weird way we act about wine. I know it has a lower alcohol content them other forms of alcohol but how much do we think she was drinking a night? At least a bottle right? Girl you have a problem! I mean on top of everything else... Plotting murder probably is more important than a possible dependency on alcohol.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

Despite being a well-documented piece of shit, can we have a moment of empathy for David's likely-diminished quality of life after sustaining a headshot from a fire poker and being unconscious for several minutes? The long-term consequences of a blow to the head followed by prolonged unconsciousness are well documented, and I personally know a handful of people who have received head injuries and have gone on to suffer seizures, narcolepsy, memory damage, and sight or hearing loss. Human beings' soft, squishy bodies don't usually just bounce back from stuff like that. 

And spare a thought for Julia, who'll likely have to be David's caretaker. David probably won't be allowed to drive, which means Julia will have to haul him back and forth from the brewery and regular CT scans.

[RyanHorn 31]

Anybody else bothered by the fact that Julia still had an open wound on the side of her face during the ENTIRE police interrogation? Wouldn’t they have swabbed that for DNA and bandaged her up at some point? 

And....this bit of IMDB trivia is bizarre: Director Denise Di Nova had Geoff Stults wear mascara during filming because she felt it made his "eyes pop". Additionally, Stults had to continually tan or have makeup applied because he was "too white" in his scenes with Rosario Dawson.

So he was kind of wearing blackface?!?