Musical Mondays Week 78 Billy the Kid and the Green Baize Vampire

[Cameron H. 23786]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard the word “snooker” used so frequently in all my life....

[Cameron H. 23786]

You’ve got to respect a movie whose title and opening score makes you feel like you’re about to sit down and play an old school SNES game...

[Cam Bert 8145]

This may be a controversial stance, while I don't think this was a good movie I don't think I disliked it though.

The story is beyond simple and the snooker players are very cartoony, but it just made me think about why aren't their more sports based musicals and how other sports could translate into musicals. Snooker, when not at the highest level, could make for a lot of musical chances as one person sings as the other plays and back and forth. I appreciate the big swing and miss they took and can't hate them for it. I probably won't remember any of the songs, but I like the gumption of those involved and hope they went on to try more unique and new things.

[grudlian. 4725]

10 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

This may be a controversial stance, while I don't think this was a good movie I don't think I disliked it though.

The story is beyond simple and the snooker players are very cartoony, but it just made me think about why aren't their more sports based musicals and how other sports could translate into musicals. Snooker, when not at the highest level, could make for a lot of musical chances as one person sings as the other plays and back and forth. I appreciate the big swing and miss they took and can't hate them for it. I probably won't remember any of the songs, but I like the gumption of those involved and hope they went on to try more unique and new things.

I agree with all of this. This is clearly a wholly original idea. I have to admire just getting this to screen. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

12 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

This may be a controversial stance, while I don't think this was a good movie I don't think I disliked it though.

The story is beyond simple and the snooker players are very cartoony, but it just made me think about why aren't their more sports based musicals and how other sports could translate into musicals. Snooker, when not at the highest level, could make for a lot of musical chances as one person sings as the other plays and back and forth. I appreciate the big swing and miss they took and can't hate them for it. I probably won't remember any of the songs, but I like the gumption of those involved and hope they went on to try more unique and new things.

Actually, I agree. While, I’m not going to lie, it took me a while to get through it, I did have a grudging respect for it. You don’t really get movies like this, not just anymore, but even then. It was just so absurd.

[grudlian. 4725]

It turns out the characters in this are inspired by real life snooker players. The green baize vampire is based on Ray "Dracula" Reardon and Jimmy "The Whirlwind" Webb. I don't know how The Whirlwind ties into an American western hero but, I guess so?

I couldn't find any information about them wagering their careers or even notable matches against each other. So, I not sure why these two other than they were big figures in snooker in their day.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I'm not sure how many of you are into Brit Pop, but not only was Phil Daniels (Billy Kid) in the movie adaptaion of The Who's Quadrophenia, he is featured heavily on the Blur song "Parklife.”

 

[Cam Bert 8145]

19 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I'm not sure how many of you are into Brit Pop, but not only was Phil Daniels (Billy Kid) in the movie adaptaion of The Who's Quadrophenia, he is featured heavily on the Blur song "Parklife.”

 

I love this song. It's a karaoke classic if you're ever with British people. Pulp may be be my favourite of the 90s wave of Brit pop but I did listen to lots of Blur as well.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I'm not sure if everybody knows the rules of snooker or looked them up. Admittedly you don't really need to know them to watch the movie but what the Vampire did was actually super impressive. 147 is the perfect snooker score. See, you have to pot a red ball which is worth one point. If you pot one you are allowed to take a shot at any colour ball next. The colours go up in value (yellow, green, brown, blue, pink) with black being worth the most at seven points. If you pot any ball before it's turn (you sink all the reds and then move down the colours accordingly) that ball is replaced on the table in its starting position. The Vampire did this with every red ball, alternating red and black, and didn't miss to achieve the perfect score of 147. It is also implied he did this more than once before the mid match break, which makes it even more impressive. Maybe he did have powers after all.

[Cameron H. 23786]

7 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I'm not sure if everybody knows the rules of snooker or looked them up. Admittedly you don't really need to know them to watch the movie but what the Vampire did was actually super impressive. 147 is the perfect snooker score. See, you have to pot a red ball which is worth one point. If you pot one you are allowed to take a shot at any colour ball next. The colours go up in value (yellow, green, brown, blue, pink) with black being worth the most at seven points. If you pot any ball before it's turn (you sink all the reds and then move down the colours accordingly) that ball is replaced on the table in its starting position. The Vampire did this with every red ball, alternating red and black, and didn't miss to achieve the perfect score of 147. It is also implied he did this more than once before the mid match break, which makes it even more impressive. Maybe he did have powers after all.

He certainly had some telekinesis...but that's mo match for a good old fashioned bullet.

[grudlian. 4725]

3 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I'm not sure if everybody knows the rules of snooker or looked them up. Admittedly you don't really need to know them to watch the movie but what the Vampire did was actually super impressive. 147 is the perfect snooker score. See, you have to pot a red ball which is worth one point. If you pot one you are allowed to take a shot at any colour ball next. The colours go up in value (yellow, green, brown, blue, pink) with black being worth the most at seven points. If you pot any ball before it's turn (you sink all the reds and then move down the colours accordingly) that ball is replaced on the table in its starting position. The Vampire did this with every red ball, alternating red and black, and didn't miss to achieve the perfect score of 147. It is also implied he did this more than once before the mid match break, which makes it even more impressive. Maybe he did have powers after all.

The is technically a way to score higher than a standard 147 maximum break. It requires your opponent to go first without pocketing any balls and make a mistake (I want to say a specific mistake but I don't remember). This can mean the official can award another ball on the table giving another scoring opportunity but you then have to do a full maximum break including the extra ball. This makesthe highest possible score 155. This has never happened in an official snooker game by has been accomplished a couple times in non-regulation play.

[Cam Bert 8145]

3 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

The is technically a way to score higher than a standard 147 maximum break. It requires your opponent to go first without pocketing any balls and make a mistake (I want to say a specific mistake but I don't remember). This can mean the official can award another ball on the table giving another scoring opportunity but you then have to do a full maximum break including the extra ball. This makesthe highest possible score 155. This has never happened in an official snooker game by has been accomplished a couple times in non-regulation play.

Yes, this would be hard. They'd have to foul on the break and then give the other player a free ball. Certainly something no professional would do or very very unlikely to do so.

[Cam Bert 8145]

Is "Billy the Kid" a grown up Mike TV from Charlie and the Chocolate factory?

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

You’ve got to respect a movie whose title and opening score makes you feel like you’re about to sit down and play an old school SNES game...

The version I watched on Tubi TV had "Billy and the Vampire" as the title card.  I'll pull a screenshot later.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Damnit!  I was promised a vampire musical!  Not a musical about a pretend (?) vampire.  LOVED the "Do you concur, Dad?" bit that laid T.O. out.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

What was the point of T.O.?  All I can see is to provide the motivation for Billy to come back and win.  Although GBV had to make some mistakes to keep Billy in it.  It also seemed like T.O. had a distinctly American (or at least countryless) accent near and up to the end.

[grudlian. 4725]

20 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

The version I watched on Tubi TV had "Billy and the Vampire" as the title card.  I'll pull a screenshot later.

Yeah. That's the version I saw. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on this movie. I've seen three years of release and this was maybe a tv movie. I saw something claiming this has a two hour runtime. 

[tomspanks 9039]

1 hour ago, Cam Bert said:

I'm not sure if everybody knows the rules of snooker or looked them up. Admittedly you don't really need to know them to watch the movie but what the Vampire did was actually super impressive. 147 is the perfect snooker score. See, you have to pot a red ball which is worth one point. If you pot one you are allowed to take a shot at any colour ball next. The colours go up in value (yellow, green, brown, blue, pink) with black being worth the most at seven points. If you pot any ball before it's turn (you sink all the reds and then move down the colours accordingly) that ball is replaced on the table in its starting position. The Vampire did this with every red ball, alternating red and black, and didn't miss to achieve the perfect score of 147. It is also implied he did this more than once before the mid match break, which makes it even more impressive. Maybe he did have powers after all.

What do you mean, "pot" a ball?

Re: powers, so was he or was he not a vampire?  Do vampires have telekinesis?  Why did he "freeze" during his interview?  What the heck is this movie?  

[grudlian. 4725]

2 hours ago, tomspanks said:

What do you mean, "pot" a ball?

Re: powers, so was he or was he not a vampire?  Do vampires have telekinesis?  Why did he "freeze" during his interview?  What the heck is this movie?  

"Potting" a ball means getting it in the pocket.

I assumed he was an actual vampire but, only now, do I realize how weird that is. I thought the telekinesis was strange but we've seen vampires have a range of powers that aren't consistent. So, the weirdest thing about it is that he's seemingly never used it before.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

"Potting" a ball means getting it in the pocket.

I assumed he was an actual vampire but, only now, do I realize how weird that is. I thought the telekinesis was strange but we've seen vampires have a range of powers that aren't consistent. So, the weirdest thing about it is that he's seemingly never used it before.

I think he did use it when he was talking to TO over the corpse of his father..? He pots a couple of balls with his mind or something. I mean, I thought it was his dead father doing it at the time, but I guess not.  

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

4 hours ago, grudlian. said:

Yeah. That's the version I saw. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on this movie. I've seen three years of release and this was maybe a tv movie. I saw something claiming this has a two hour runtime. 

Possibly made for TV movie that got a European theatrical release, and then re-released multiple times under different titles and edits?

Wouldn't be the first time I've heard of these things happening.

I didn't watch and am reading the thread backwards, but this post caught my eye. 

[GrahamS. 803]

11 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

This may be a controversial stance, while I don't think this was a good movie I don't think I disliked it though.

The story is beyond simple and the snooker players are very cartoony, but it just made me think about why aren't their more sports based musicals and how other sports could translate into musicals. Snooker, when not at the highest level, could make for a lot of musical chances as one person sings as the other plays and back and forth. I appreciate the big swing and miss they took and can't hate them for it. I probably won't remember any of the songs, but I like the gumption of those involved and hope they went on to try more unique and new things.

Agree 100%.

i found this film totally impenetrable. I started off watching it sober. I tried watching it stoned. It did not make sense to me in either state. I felt like there was a cultural barrier where people were speaking English and I technically understood most of what they were saying...and yet I barely followed any of it. Yet it was kind of fascinating because no one was phoning it in and they were definitely trying to achieve...something.

Some comments on the music: the opening really sounded like someone was trying to channel a discordant Tom Waits style while totally coked to the gills and on synthesizers.

One song—I think it was called Supersonic Sounds, or at least that was in the lyrics—felt like it could have been an early influence on Oasis (or maybe Blur)!

There was one sequence where Billy the Kid walked through concrete hallways for a really long time and I wondered if the actor was simply going around and around the same set. I kept wondering when he was going to reach his destination. (My one note that I took on this film exclaims “He’s going in circles!” Though that may not technically be correct, it was probably more of a rectangle or square. I don’t get stoned often but I was stoned by this point. Don’t judge me.),This was probably applicable for set use in more than one scene.

The camera seemed to be constantly moving during one song even when the actors were totally static. More coke. Please!

Full confession: I only watched about 30 minutes because the strobe lights in the Billy the Kid scenes started to give me a headache. It was unpleasant and it gave me a legitimate out. I could fast forward through those scenes, maybe I will. 

It was definitely a unique experience.

P.S. I think Cam Bert (though I’m not sure) mentioned some interesting details about the actor in this and Blur. I like both Blur and Pulp a lot. I heard there was some BS rivalry between Oasis and Blur. I’d take Blur in a heartbeat. 

 

[Cam Bert 8145]

25 minutes ago, GrahamS. said:

P.S. I think Cam Bert (though I’m not sure) mentioned some interesting details about the actor in this and Blur. I like both Blur and Pulp a lot. I heard there was some BS rivalry between Oasis and Blur. I’d take Blur in a heartbeat. 

Cameron H (the superior Cameron) brought up Blur and I brought up Pulp. I mean I know Oasis is beloved by a lot but I think 70% of people that say "I like Oasis" just like "(What''s the Story) Morning Glory" and that's it. Even then they only like Don't Look Back in Anger and Wonderwall. But I'm sure Cameron H has lots of thoughts of Oasis because they are bigger than the Beatles

[Cameron H. 23786]

24 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Cameron H (the superior Cameron) brought up Blur and I brought up Pulp. I mean I know Oasis is beloved by a lot but I think 70% of people that say "I like Oasis" just like "(What''s the Story) Morning Glory" and that's it. Even then they only like Don't Look Back in Anger and Wonderwall. But I'm sure Cameron H has lots of thoughts of Oasis because they are bigger than the Beatles

Awww...go on!

My thoughts on Oasis...I love them! I have all of their albums. My favorites are their final three: Heathen Chemistry, Don’t Believe the Truth, Dig Out Your Soul. I still follow Wings, er, I mean, Noel Gallagher’s High Flying Birds. I’m not really into Liam’s solo stuff. 

That being said, I think Blur was always far more interesting musically. I found the whole “new Beatles” label that Oasis tried to push would have been far better suited to Blur. Oasis was more superficially Beatles-y whereas I felt Blur better embodied the innovative spirit of The Beatles. I don’t think it always worked, but there was an attempt with Blur to push the envelope. Oasis, especially early in their career, just cribbed Beatles lyrics and played them through distorted guitars.

[Cameron H. 23786]

My favorite Oasis song: