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Episode 225: Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives: LIVE!

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27 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

I seem to recall Roger Ebert asking a very similar question ("if people keep getting killed at this lake, why do people keep sending their kids there?") in a review when I was a tween.  Probably for part 6 or part 7.  Which makes me think the answer is probably the time-honored, worst-answer, "because we need the 'plot' to happen."

It's been 9 years since I've seen part 2.  I vaguely remember there being a line in there about them ret-conning him actually not dying - the whole jumping out of the lake in the first one was always a confusing bit of narrative.  But so many later movies in the series still work with the assumption that he died in that lake (e.g. part 8, Freddy vs Jason both coming to mind).  It's been decades since I've seen Part 9.  If you make it to that point though, I think that one will make the coherency of the series somehow even more confusing.  Though maybe it actually does tie everything together.  Probably not though.  The only one I don't know if I've ever seen is part 7 (and I haven't seen Jason X, which doesn't seem... canonical.  Though that's a weird phrase to use with this series).

Unfortunately, AMC only has up till 8 on their roster so I am still not going to be complete in my viewing.

Also, I did just remember that I saw the 2009 Friday movie before all of this. I did not enjoy it.

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49 minutes ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

seem to recall Roger Ebert asking a very similar question ("if people keep getting killed at this lake, why do people keep sending their kids there?") in a review when I was a tween.  Probably for part 6 or part 7.  Which makes me think the answer is probably the time-honored, worst-answer, "because we need the 'plot' to happen."

Having just watched 1-8 (Braaaaag), I can say that in 5 there’s a throw away line that they renamed the town (possibly the lake, too) to cover up its bloody past. That being said, everyone who lives there is still hyper aware of the murders.

Also, to help clarify, or perhaps muddy the waters further, according to IMDb Trivia, this movie takes place in 1990. So, for the time it was released it was like the “not too distant future.” How that affects the sliding timeline of the series, I’m not sure. 7 seems to happen a considerable amount of time after 6. Likewise with 8. If I were to guess, I’d say 8 (which came out in 1989) is supposed to be, like, 1995 or something.

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40 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Having just watched 1-8 (Braaaaag), I can say that in 5 there’s a throw away line that they renamed the town (possibly the lake, too) to cover up its bloody past. That being said, everyone who lives there is still hyper aware of the murders.

Also, to help clarify, or perhaps muddy the waters further, according to IMDb Trivia, this movie takes place in 1990. So, for the time it was released it was like the “not too distant future.” How that affects the sliding timeline of the series, I’m not sure. 7 seems to happen a considerable amount of time after 6. Likewise with 8. If I were to guess, I’d say 8 (which came out in 1989) is supposed to be, like, 1995 or something.

https://fridaythe13th.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Friday_the_13th_series

Here's a timeline from a Friday the 13th fan wiki. This movie does take place in 1990 which really is mind blowing.

Even with a name change, I think people would probably remember. Parts 2-4 take place over a long weekend and Jason killed 34 people. That's international news. Especially when it's only 5 years after a mass murder by the same killer's mother in the original movie. Then there's the copycat killer in part 5. There's the benefit of being pre-internet where it's harder to research this but you'd think locals would get something in place to prevent the camp from opening after all this. 

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4 hours ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

They also do a terrible job of setting it up. In the first one they tell you each time there is a time jump, so in the beginning it says "1958" and then when it jumps it says "Present Day," which is also why I believed it was set in 1980 since that's when it was released.

But in Part 2 they don't do that at all!

Also... "fan" is a strong word for me 😂

Sorry, "devotee". Better?😉

2 hours ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

Unfortunately, AMC only has up till 8 on their roster so I am still not going to be complete in my viewing.

Also, I did just remember that I saw the 2009 Friday movie before all of this. I did not enjoy it.

I mean in my personal opinion the only post Part 8 movie worth watching is maybe the remake. It's basically a humorless combination of the first three movies. Jason Goes to Hell is a batshit crazy movie and while very dumb I think it lacks the fun (and continuity) of parts 1-8. Jason X, well that's been covered here already, and Freddy vs Jason is more of a Freddy movie which Jason just happens to be in.

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1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

https://fridaythe13th.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Friday_the_13th_series

Here's a timeline from a Friday the 13th fan wiki. This movie does take place in 1990 which really is mind blowing.

Even with a name change, I think people would probably remember. Parts 2-4 take place over a long weekend and Jason killed 34 people. That's international news. Especially when it's only 5 years after a mass murder by the same killer's mother in the original movie. Then there's the copycat killer in part 5. There's the benefit of being pre-internet where it's harder to research this but you'd think locals would get something in place to prevent the camp from opening after all this. 

Maybe it's the just because the actor looks much older but I have a hard time believing that in 6 years Corey Feldman went from the kid in Part IV and start of Part V to this guy. That means him and Horshack are suppose to be like 18 or so? What weird casting.

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8 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Maybe it's the just because the actor looks much older but I have a hard time believing that in 6 years Corey Feldman went from the kid in Part IV and start of Part V to this guy. That means him and Horshack are suppose to be like 18 or so? What weird casting.

Corey Feldman was 13 passing a 12 year old. The guy playing Tommy in Part V was 25 playing a 17 year old. The guy playing Tommy in Part VI was 27.

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8 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Freddy vs Jason is more of a Freddy movie which Jason just happens to be in.

But Jason gets most of the kills!

10 hours ago, grudlian. said:

https://fridaythe13th.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Friday_the_13th_series

Here's a timeline from a Friday the 13th fan wiki. This movie does take place in 1990 which really is mind blowing.

Even with a name change, I think people would probably remember. Parts 2-4 take place over a long weekend and Jason killed 34 people. That's international news. Especially when it's only 5 years after a mass murder by the same killer's mother in the original movie. Then there's the copycat killer in part 5. There's the benefit of being pre-internet where it's harder to research this but you'd think locals would get something in place to prevent the camp from opening after all this. 

Had anyone considered the dimension of time in this series is actually the temporal version of the Overlook Hotel floorplan?

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Happy Halloween you little goblins! Have a safe and sexy Halloween 🎃 

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11 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Sorry, "devotee". Better?😉

I mean in my personal opinion the only post Part 8 movie worth watching is maybe the remake. It's basically a humorless combination of the first three movies. Jason Goes to Hell is a batshit crazy movie and while very dumb I think it lacks the fun (and continuity) of parts 1-8. Jason X, well that's been covered here already, and Freddy vs Jason is more of a Freddy movie which Jason just happens to be in.

Hopelessly devoted to Jason

Also I have to say I think I'm a bigger fan of the Nightmare franchise. Having a villain that can actually quip and be the joke makes it a lot more fun than just sight gags. Although the 3D "effects" in Friday Part 3 had me laughing so fucking hard.

I would have to rewatch the newest one now that I've seen the originals. From what I remember it wasn't even a remake but a continuation, and there was actual acknowledgement of the previous murders. But it was definitely humorless and instead of poking fun at the archetypes like Cabin in the Woods does it instead relies on them and exploits them instead.

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37 minutes ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

Hopelessly devoted to Jason

Also I have to say I think I'm a bigger fan of the Nightmare franchise. Having a villain that can actually quip and be the joke makes it a lot more fun than just sight gags. Although the 3D "effects" in Friday Part 3 had me laughing so fucking hard.

I would have to rewatch the newest one now that I've seen the originals. From what I remember it wasn't even a remake but a continuation, and there was actual acknowledgement of the previous murders. But it was definitely humorless and instead of poking fun at the archetypes like Cabin in the Woods does it instead relies on them and exploits them instead.

I found the Nightmare series went way downhill once Freddy started joking a lot. I generally dislike when horror movies have you rooting for the killer though which is what his jokes kind of turned into. It worked in the first one and, of all the slasher movie series, I remember the first Nightmare being the scariest.

The 3D effects in Friday The 13th Part 3 are really fun in a theater. I saw a midnight show of it a few years ago before 3D came back. Maybe it wouldn't be as much fun now that people hate 3D again but the audience was going crazy for most of the 3D gags.

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Just now, grudlian. said:

I found the Nightmare series went way downhill once Freddy started joking a lot. I generally dislike when horror movies have you rooting for the killer though which is what his jokes kind of turned into. It worked in the first one and, of all the slasher movie series, I remember the first Nightmare being the scariest.

The 3D effects in Friday The 13th Part 3 are really fun in a theater. I saw a midnight show of it a few years ago before 3D came back. Maybe it wouldn't be as much fun now that people hate 3D again but the audience was going crazy for most of the 3D gags.

Yeah I will definitely agree that the first Nightmare is the most successful, and I admit I actually really liked this first Friday the 13th. I obviously knew the twist going in but the way it was done was handled exceptionally well and I understood why this was so scary and even jumped at one point, but once they took out the mother and just created this monster human in the form of Jason I thought it really lost what made it scary and well done. Then it just became a spectacle to see how many people he could kill. At least in the nightmare movies even though they just become more silly there's still the same stuff behind them all that there basically was in the first. I can't remember which number it was (maybe Nightmare 4?) but I think I actually enjoyed that as much as the first one, but I can't say that about any of these Jason sequels. 

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54 minutes ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

Yeah I will definitely agree that the first Nightmare is the most successful, and I admit I actually really liked this first Friday the 13th. I obviously knew the twist going in but the way it was done was handled exceptionally well and I understood why this was so scary and even jumped at one point, but once they took out the mother and just created this monster human in the form of Jason I thought it really lost what made it scary and well done. Then it just became a spectacle to see how many people he could kill. At least in the nightmare movies even though they just become more silly there's still the same stuff behind them all that there basically was in the first. I can't remember which number it was (maybe Nightmare 4?) but I think I actually enjoyed that as much as the first one, but I can't say that about any of these Jason sequels. 

I agree. The first of any slasher series is the best. I bet the other Nightmare movie you're thinking of is the one in the mental institution. I don't know which number it was, but it's definitely the best of the sequels.

I also really like New Nightmare in concept. It kind of sucks from being too bland and 90s in execution but it's such an awesome idea.

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35 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I agree. The first of any slasher series is the best. I bet the other Nightmare movie you're thinking of is the one in the mental institution. I don't know which number it was, but it's definitely the best of the sequels.

I also really like New Nightmare in concept. It kind of sucks from being too bland and 90s in execution but it's such an awesome idea.

Nope, the one I'm thinking of was back to being teenagers in a high school. I remember a black nerdy girl who fell asleep during a test and that sequence was pretty dang good.

IMDB has informed me it was in fact 4: The Dream Master.

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25 minutes ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

Nope, the one I'm thinking of was back to being teenagers in a high school. I remember a black nerdy girl who fell asleep during a test and that sequence was pretty dang good.

IMDB has informed me it was in fact 4: The Dream Master.

I'll be honest. I don't remember that one at all but, the one time I watched 2-6, was a day long marathon in college. It nearly broke me and my friend.

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8 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

giphy.gif

Happy Halloween you little goblins! Have a safe and sexy Halloween 🎃 

I'm planning to finish up my October horror binging with a rewatch of Herzog's Nosferatu, so it's going to be a sexually repressed Halloween.

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5 hours ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

Nope, the one I'm thinking of was back to being teenagers in a high school. I remember a black nerdy girl who fell asleep during a test and that sequence was pretty dang good.

IMDB has informed me it was in fact 4: The Dream Master.

I wasn't particularly fond of that one (or that scene), but I know the ... director(?) behind the documentary Horror Noire is a big fan of that movie and character because when growing up there just weren't black, female nerds in horror movies - even if it was somehwat of token character, it still meant a lot to her seeing it on screen 

I binged 1-6 around August - one thing I noticed even by part 5, even of the writing of the characters kept getting weaker, having dream sequences allowed/encouraged the films to express some type of creativity - something the other slashers didn't have (or didn't have much of - Halloween would have premonition dreams starting with part 4).

Part 6 was just trash. Part 2 was more amytiville horror. Part 3 probably had the best acting (Patricia Arquette as the lead) - but also set up the formula for the next 3 of, people fight back in their dreams by acting like they have a super power, Freddy looks like he's on the ropes, and then becomes stronger/etc and kills the victim.

I found in the binging that Freddy's joking wasn't as clever as I thought it would be, and the Rick & Morty joke of Freddy just resorting to just calling everyone "Bitch!" wasn't too far off - but different folks and all that. 

I do find the Freddy/Jason comparison to feel like it's the same archetype comparison of Dracula/Frankenstein's monster.  The latter becoming larger, stronger, and more indestructible as the movies progressed (at least that's my memory of him - and how pop-culture seems to treat him).

As with Dracula, who was smaller, supernaturally strong (and grew stronger with time), and would get "lines."

Michael Meyers seemed to go the Jason route, but didn't gain body mass as the series went on - though it did do a direct Bride of Frankenstein homage with a blind man.

Leatherface is kind of off on his own though (admittedly I've only seen 1 & 2) and am not sure if we group him with the other slashers (I feel like it's a "sometimes"). I'd put TCM as the scariest slasher if we're counting it though, because his kills weren't that of an unstoppable killing machine and seemed uncomfortable in how it felt like how a real struggle or kill would happen. Dragging the victim to the meat hook being the strongest example of this.

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7 hours ago, grudlian. said:

The 3D effects in Friday The 13th Part 3 are really fun in a theater. I saw a midnight show of it a few years ago before 3D came back. Maybe it wouldn't be as much fun now that people hate 3D again but the audience was going crazy for most of the 3D gags.

3D came back with Avatar - I say that seeing part 3 in 3D a few years ago well after 3D came back, as part of a retro-3D festival. The eye popping out was a blast. Admittedly, I haven't really gone to many modern 3D movies, so I'm not someone who would have burnt out on 3D movies.

7 hours ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

I admit I actually really liked this first Friday the 13th. I obviously knew the twist going in but the way it was done was handled exceptionally well and I understood why this was so scary and even jumped at one point, but once they took out the mother and just created this monster human in the form of Jason I thought it really lost what made it scary and well done. Then it just became a spectacle to see how many people he could kill.

Of all the F13th movies, for some reason I just rewatched this one. I sometimes wonder why the European giallos don't work for me as much as American slashers. With that mindset, I couldn't help but notice the common plot point of "and in the reveal, the killer turned out to be a crazy person in an unexpected twist." Yet at the same time, the difference that you don't really meet the killer at all until the end of the film (to note I remember there are kills in the later F13 movies that are taken directly from some giallos - I mainly remember one that came from Bava's Bay of Blood, but I can't remember which F13 it's in).

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1 hour ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

3D came back with Avatar - I say that seeing part 3 in 3D a few years ago well after 3D came back, as part of a retro-3D festival. The eye popping out was a blast. Admittedly, I haven't really gone to many modern 3D movies, so I'm not someone who would have burnt out on 3D movies.

I think people got burned out on 3D because filmmakers weren't utilizing it well. Friday the 13th at least did some gimmicky stuff with it which at least fit the movie. So, I don't know if modern audiences would care but I do think the people who would watch a 30 year old slasher in theaters would eat it up. So, idk.

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