Musical Mondays Week 85 Velvet Goldmine

[Cameron H. 23786]

"Style always wins out in the end."

 

We watched:

[Cameron H. 23786]

3 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

"Style always wins out in the end."

 

We watched:

I picked this image because it is about the worst image you could choose for this movie.

[grudlian. 4725]

I didn't get the chance to rewatch this for Musical Mondays but I have seen this and liked it quite a bit.

Whenever I complain about a movie like Greatest Showman or Jobs picking a real life person then telling a mostly fictional story as their biography, this is the kind of movie I'd prefer. We all know this is Bowie and Iggy Pop, but it isn't technically them.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

I love this movie, though it's definitely got some flaws. It does feel a little like they were stuffing this wild, flamboyant atmosphere into a more conventional story structure (reporter digging into a story), and I think it maybe suffers some there. Also I'm not sure the character arcs ever go anywhere really. 

But other than some quibbles like that, I love it. It's brazen and colorful and the use of music is particularly brilliant. But maybe that's because the music itself is so brilliant? I'm a sucker for all the music in this. My favorite was the long scene with "Baby On Fire" with that crazy guitar solo repeating and giving this huge noisy atmosphere to the movie. There's a bunch of scenes to music like that which really impressed.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Yeah, I liked a lot of what was going on in the movie. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure that it added up to much. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have gotten out of it (if anything), and I'm not sure I know anything more about the whole glam rock thing other than it was a thing that happened and eventually ended. I think I would have appreciated a stronger narrative voice. Something to tell me why these events are so important--especially when they are being removed from the context of a biopic. 

I think this is partially answered in the end with this exchange:

Curt Wild: We set out to change the world... ended up just changing ourselves.

Arthur Stuart: What's wrong with that?

Curt Wild: Nothing, if you don't look at the world.

But I still didn't really get a sense of how anyone has or has not changed.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I guess what I found troubling about the movie is that there are fictional versions of actual people, as well as pastiches of their music, but then actual Glam Rock songs from the era mixed in. I realize this probably has to do with a lot of rights issues pertaining to both the music and biographies of people (Bowie DID NOT like this thing from the script on forward), but it just contributes to the sense of unreality of the narrative and took me out of the film. Like, if "20th Century Boy" was an actual song in this world, then who is Marc Bolan in this film? He was a man who actually lived who had an actual friendship and professional relationship with both Bowie and Iggy Pop. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

6 minutes ago, Quasar Sniffer said:

I guess what I found troubling about the movie is that there are fictional versions of actual people, as well as pastiches of their music, but then actual Glam Rock songs from the era mixed in. I realize this probably has to do with a lot of rights issues pertaining to both the music and biographies of people (Bowie DID NOT like this thing from the script on forward), but it just contributes to the sense of unreality of the narrative and took me out of the film. Like, if "20th Century Boy" was an actual song in this world, then who is Marc Bolan in this film? He was a man who actually lived who had an actual friendship and professional relationship with both Bowie and Iggy Pop. 

That was troubling for me as well. Like they kept referring to "President Reynolds," who I guess is supposed to be a kind of conservative President Reagan figure. So it's like a Watchman-type thing, but why? Why not mention Reagan by name? It kind of lost myself in its alternate reality type world. And, again, maybe that's the point, but if it is, I don't think it was done all that well. It was like the movie was trying to have its cake and eat it too. This is about David Bowie, but it's not (but it kind of is). 

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

35 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have gotten out of it (if anything), and I'm not sure I know anything more about the whole glam rock thing other than it was a thing that happened and eventually ended. I think I would have appreciated a stronger narrative voice. Something to tell me why these events are so important--especially when they are being removed from the context of a biopic. .

Not to defend this part, because it's my least favorite angle of the movie, but I think Christian Bale's character was supposed to reflect the influence that glam rock had on society, going from staid, normal life into a more colorful, flamboyant world. 

But the interesting thing is that I'm not sure glam rock really had that much influence. Oh sure, Bowie of course did, but his influence was far beyond just being a 'glam' guy. (I think he disavowed the label, and either way, he moved away from the style pretty fast.) Roxy Music dropped the style pretty fast too (just their first album really). Eno's music in the film is arguably not glam at all. T. Rex was, but they're also relatively niche. Iggy and Lou Reed flirted with it on occasion (usually when hanging out with Bowie), but mostly made their mark in other ways. It's an amazing genre, but also a curious one.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

1 hour ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Not to defend this part, because it's my least favorite angle of the movie, but I think Christian Bale's character was supposed to reflect the influence that glam rock had on society, going from staid, normal life into a more colorful, flamboyant world. 

But the interesting thing is that I'm not sure glam rock really had that much influence. Oh sure, Bowie of course did, but his influence was far beyond just being a 'glam' guy. (I think he disavowed the label, and either way, he moved away from the style pretty fast.) Roxy Music dropped the style pretty fast too (just their first album really). Eno's music in the film is arguably not glam at all. T. Rex was, but they're also relatively niche. Iggy and Lou Reed flirted with it on occasion (usually when hanging out with Bowie), but mostly made their mark in other ways. It's an amazing genre, but also a curious one.

Something in Wikipedia said it was supposed to show how glam rock allowed Christian to be comfortable to come out, that it helped many boys and men in Britain in the 70s.  Not sure I agree with it but there it is.  To me, the movie felt like it should have been made in 1984.  It had a filmic quality that I would have associated with the beginnings of video instead of nearing the end of the Nineties.  (Two years later Christian became Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. Also set in the mid-80s but with a higher "look" to it.)

I am not steeped in glam so many of the references flew over my head.  Reading Wikipedia they mention a New York Dolls song was also used.  I am only familiar with them because of David Johannsen singing in the 80s as Buster Poindexter.  Seems like the Dolls would have been a good group to mention/emulate as they were literally from New York.  I don't know how long they carried the glam look so I might be way off base.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

One thing that really bothered me was Shannon getting so upset when Curt and Brian left the party to go have sex.  I don't remember Shannon being emotionally tied to either of them before that point.  (Shannon was being serviced when that happened.  I don't remember but was Curt the one servicing her then he stopped to leave with Brian?)  Obviously Mandy wasn't happy about it but she didn't get drop-dead emotional about it.  I loved her line "Everyone looks beautiful when they walk out the door."

[Cameron H. 23786]

16 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

One thing that really bothered me was Shannon getting so upset when Curt and Brian left the party to go have sex.  I don't remember Shannon being emotionally tied to either of them before that point.  (Shannon was being serviced when that happened.  I don't remember but was Curt the one servicing her then he stopped to leave with Brian?)  Obviously Mandy wasn't happy about it but she didn't get drop-dead emotional about it.  I loved her line "Everyone looks beautiful when they walk out the door."

I think it's the difference between an orgy and intimacy. If everyone is just doing everyone it's sort of superficial and there's a kind of equality. If two people go off to be alone it feels far more like infidelity. 

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

14 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

 

I am not steeped in glam so many of the references flew over my head.  Reading Wikipedia they mention a New York Dolls song was also used.  I am only familiar with them because of David Johannsen singing in the 80s as Buster Poindexter.  Seems like the Dolls would have been a good group to mention/emulate as they were literally from New York.  I don't know how long they carried the glam look so I might be way off base.

I think the Dolls are interesting because they are more proto-punk than anything, and as so much of Glam came out of England, they had more musically in common with Iggy and the Stooges or The Mc5 (who were Detroit-based acts), but just in drag. It's another example of how sometimes musical genres aren't clear-cut. Glam was much more of a visual aesthetic and way of promoting yourself. I mean, T-Rex was just a great hard rock band. The only thing that made them Glam was the glitter and fabulous feather boas Marc Bolan wore.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

The David Bowie as "self-destructive egotistical rock star jerk" interested me because a comic book recently took that dynamic and set it in the 80s. In the series GUNNING FOR HITS, a washed-up/sell-out version of Bowie manipulates an agent and a young aspiring rock band to make a comeback. I think it's fascinating that instead of straight up biopics, we've made these villainous versions of Bowie, a musician who is a hero to possibly more people than any other musician of the last 50 years. It's like his legacy is so grandiose and unapproachable, we have to make him even more fallible to fathom his mythos. Even the creator of GUNNING FOR HITS talked about how Bowie was a hero his, and he even designed the first boxed set of Bowie's work.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I had trouble finding any international posters.  Only one Japanese (I assume) and a German poster were any different.  @CamBert, some help please?

 

[SlidePocket 707]

With the revelation that Brian has now been living with a new name and a new face, has it always been the case when a once-famous celeb undergoes facial reconstruction surgery and becomes popular under a new name so that nobody will recognize them?

[Cameron H. 23786]

According to IMDb:

”Courtney Love considered supplying music to the film's soundtrack; however, she withdrew after viewing a rough cut, claiming that the character of Curt Wild too closely resembled her late husband Kurt Cobain, both in character and physicality.”

Did...she not know her husband or ever listen to his music?

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

32 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

According to IMDb:

”Courtney Love considered supplying music to the film's soundtrack; however, she withdrew after viewing a rough cut, claiming that the character of Curt Wild too closely resembled her late husband Kurt Cobain, both in character and physicality.”

Did...she not know her husband or ever listen to his music?

I know, right?  They should have asked Jane's Addiction.

[GrahamS. 803]

I’m getting this from Metflix on DVD but haven’t gotten it yet. Will give you my thoughts—precious as they are—after I see it (and yes, I know I misspelled Netflix, but really, who gives a shit?).

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

11 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

I’m getting this from Metflix on DVD but haven’t gotten it yet. Will give you my thoughts—precious as they are—after I see it (and yes, I know I misspelled Netflix, but really, who gives a shit?).

Metflix is the New York-specific (Queens mainly) version of Netflix.

[GrahamS. 803]

By the way, the last movie I watched on Blu-Raywas Toy Story 4. I thought it was fine. I liked it, but thought the seams of the Toy Story franchise were beginning to show. I’d give it a B, not an Academy Award.

But YAY PARASITE!

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 minute ago, GrahamS. said:

By the way, the last movie I watched on Blu-Raywas Toy Story 4. I thought it was fine. I liked it, but thought the seams of the Toy Story franchise were beginning to show. I’d give it a B, not an Academy Award.

But YAY PARASITE!

I really enjoyed Toy Story 4, but I think 3 was pretty much the perfect end to the series. On its own, I wouldn't say it was Oscar worthy, but against its competition, I think it deserved to win.

Yay, Parasite!

[Cameron H. 23786]

My favorite Iggy song (not really a deep cut, but whatevs...)

 

[grudlian. 4725]

19 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

My favorite Iggy song (not really a deep cut, but whatevs...)

 

This one is definitely up there for me. If we're talking favorite song Iggy ever did (solo or not), I'd probably have to go with TV Eye.

[Cameron H. 23786]

(I’m going to turn this into a David Bowie appreciation thread now )

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

Bowie produced "The Passenger"! (And also "Lust for Life".) It's also my favorite Iggy, though I do probably The Stooges to his solo things.

I go all over as to what my favorite Bowie is. I honestly probably listen to Let's Dance the most, though I think Station To Station is probably my favorite, but have also put like 4 other albums of his as my favorite depending on who knows what. I think I just prefer when he grooves